From mail-lists at karan.org Mon Nov 2 12:17:18 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:17:18 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals Message-ID: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> hi guys, I was wondering if we can have a 45 min to 60 min chat on voice regarding the language subsites that have been worked on / planned and also been setup to some extent. There is content on the wiki that sort of sum's up most of the effort that has gone in - but I think it would be good for all of us if the following people were to sync up once: - Infrastructure - Artwork - French People - Spanish People - German People - Portuguese ( Brazil ) People We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team should be a good representative of that side of things. And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ). CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on howto achieve this online well in advance. I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC. -- Karanbir Singh London, UK | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc From fabian.arrotin at arrfab.net Mon Nov 2 12:29:08 2009 From: fabian.arrotin at arrfab.net (Fabian Arrotin) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:29:08 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> Message-ID: <4AEED094.40709@arrfab.net> Karanbir Singh wrote: > hi guys, > > I was wondering if we can have a 45 min to 60 min chat on voice > regarding the language subsites that have been worked on / planned and > also been setup to some extent. > > There is content on the wiki that sort of sum's up most of the effort > that has gone in - but I think it would be good for all of us if the > following people were to sync up once: > > - Infrastructure > - Artwork > - French People > - Spanish People > - German People > - Portuguese ( Brazil ) People > > We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team > should be a good representative of that side of things. > > And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language > groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ). > > CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for > the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip > from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on > howto achieve this online well in advance. > > I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC. > Good idea. I've myself another meeting that day but i'd normally be able to jump in the conversation later ( ~20:15 UTC) -- -- Fabian Arrotin idea=`grep -i clue /dev/brain` test -z "$idea" && echo "sorry, init 6 in progress" || sh ./answer.sh From mail at marcus-moeller.de Mon Nov 2 12:35:37 2009 From: mail at marcus-moeller.de (Marcus Moeller) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:35:37 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4AEED094.40709@arrfab.net> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4AEED094.40709@arrfab.net> Message-ID: Dear Karan, >> We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team >> should be a good representative of that side of things. >> >> And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language >> groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ). >> >> CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for >> the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip >> from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on >> howto achieve this online well in advance. >> >> I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC. Would be okay for me, too. Best Regards Marcus From cleber.lists at gmail.com Mon Nov 2 13:09:51 2009 From: cleber.lists at gmail.com (Cleber Souza) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:09:51 -0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4AEED094.40709@arrfab.net> Message-ID: OK for me too. On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Marcus Moeller wrote: > Dear Karan, > >>> We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team >>> should be a good representative of that side of things. >>> >>> And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language >>> groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ). >>> >>> CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for >>> the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip >>> from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on >>> howto achieve this online well in advance. >>> >>> I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC. > > Would be okay for me, too. > > Best Regards > Marcus > _______________________________________________ > CentOS-devel mailing list > CentOS-devel at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel > -- Cleber Paiva de Souza From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Sun Nov 8 10:54:10 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:54:10 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] missing packages from 5.4 Message-ID: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> hi, it seems there are a few source packages missing from 5.4: celt051-0.5.1.3-0.el5.src.rpm etherboot-5.4.4-10.el5.src.rpm iasl-20061109-5.el5.src.rpm kvm-83-105.el5.src.rpm log4cpp-1.0-4.el5.src.rpm qcairo-1.8.7.1-3.el5.src.rpm qffmpeg-0.4.9-0.15.20080908.el5.src.rpm qpixman-0.13.3-4.el5.src.rpm qspice-0.3.0-39.el5.src.rpm it seems all x86_64 only package's source are missing:-) at the same time nautilus-sendto-1.0.1-6.el5.centos.src.rpm pango-1.14.9-6.el5.centos yum-metadata-parser-1.1.2-3.el5.centos.src.rpm has no reason to be .centos since there is no changes from rhel and i also suspect etherboot-5.4.4-10.el5.centos.X.rpm but as there is no src.rpm for etherboot i can't check it. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From mail-lists at karan.org Tue Nov 10 10:16:05 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:16:05 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] missing packages from 5.4 In-Reply-To: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> References: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <4AF93D65.5040305@karan.org> On 11/08/2009 10:54 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: > it seems there are a few source packages missing from 5.4: Will look into these, might need to push them out manually. -- Karanbir Singh London, UK | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Tue Nov 10 10:20:20 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:20:20 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] missing packages from 5.4 In-Reply-To: <4AF93D65.5040305@karan.org> References: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> <4AF93D65.5040305@karan.org> Message-ID: <4AF93E64.4000305@lfarkas.org> On 11/10/2009 11:16 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > On 11/08/2009 10:54 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: >> it seems there are a few source packages missing from 5.4: > > Will look into these, might need to push them out manually. and what about the not really .centos packages? -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From mail-lists at karan.org Tue Nov 10 10:25:53 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:25:53 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] missing packages from 5.4 In-Reply-To: <4AF93E64.4000305@lfarkas.org> References: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> <4AF93D65.5040305@karan.org> <4AF93E64.4000305@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <4AF93FB1.5080308@karan.org> On 11/10/2009 10:20 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: > On 11/10/2009 11:16 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: >> On 11/08/2009 10:54 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: >>> it seems there are a few source packages missing from 5.4: >> >> Will look into these, might need to push them out manually. > > and what about the not really .centos packages? > What is the issue ? Keep in mind that once a package is marked as .centos - it will stay as such during the life of the distro unless there are some very good reasons ( like it causes issues retaining that tag ). -- Karanbir Singh London, UK | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Tue Nov 10 10:27:42 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:27:42 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] missing packages from 5.4 In-Reply-To: <4AF93FB1.5080308@karan.org> References: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> <4AF93D65.5040305@karan.org> <4AF93E64.4000305@lfarkas.org> <4AF93FB1.5080308@karan.org> Message-ID: <4AF9401E.3090809@lfarkas.org> On 11/10/2009 11:25 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > On 11/10/2009 10:20 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: >> On 11/10/2009 11:16 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: >>> On 11/08/2009 10:54 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: >>>> it seems there are a few source packages missing from 5.4: >>> >>> Will look into these, might need to push them out manually. >> >> and what about the not really .centos packages? >> > > What is the issue ? that they seems to be modified even though there is no modifications:-( > Keep in mind that once a package is marked as .centos - it will stay as > such during the life of the distro unless there are some very good > reasons ( like it causes issues retaining that tag ). what kind of issues? -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From mail-lists at karan.org Tue Nov 10 10:30:07 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:30:07 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] missing packages from 5.4 In-Reply-To: <4AF9401E.3090809@lfarkas.org> References: <4AF6A352.6070804@lfarkas.org> <4AF93D65.5040305@karan.org> <4AF93E64.4000305@lfarkas.org> <4AF93FB1.5080308@karan.org> <4AF9401E.3090809@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <4AF940AF.2010609@karan.org> On 11/10/2009 10:27 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: >> Keep in mind that once a package is marked as .centos - it will stay as >> such during the life of the distro unless there are some very good >> reasons ( like it causes issues retaining that tag ). > > what kind of issues? we'll know one when we hit one wont we. -- Karanbir Singh London, UK | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc From florian.laroche at gmx.net Thu Nov 12 06:40:16 2009 From: florian.laroche at gmx.net (Florian La Roche) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:40:16 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] mock-0.9.19 on CentOS5/RHEL5 Message-ID: <20091112064016.GA7908@knorke.jur-linux.org> Hello, if you want to run the newest version of mock (0.9.19) with RHEL5/CentOS5, you can use a backported version from: http://www.jur-linux.org/rpms/el-updates/5/SRPMS/mock-0.9.19-1.el5.src.rpm http://www.jur-linux.org/rpms/el-updates/5/i386/mock-0.9.19-1.el5.noarch.rpm regards, Florian La Roche From mail-lists at karan.org Thu Nov 12 10:19:59 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:19:59 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] mock-0.9.19 on CentOS5/RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <20091112064016.GA7908@knorke.jur-linux.org> References: <20091112064016.GA7908@knorke.jur-linux.org> Message-ID: <4AFBE14F.4040606@karan.org> On 11/12/2009 06:40 AM, Florian La Roche wrote: > Hello, > > if you want to run the newest version of mock (0.9.19) > with RHEL5/CentOS5, you can use a backported version from: > Have you done any tests to see how the output changes from what we have in extras/ now ? Are these test results public somewhere ? -- Karanbir Singh London, UK | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc From brian.schueler at gmx.de Thu Nov 12 20:56:03 2009 From: brian.schueler at gmx.de (Brian Schueler) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:56:03 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] mock-0.9.19 on CentOS5/RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <4AFBE14F.4040606@karan.org> Message-ID: <1258059363.6897.2.camel@xw6200.bri-sch.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091112/07beaf28/attachment.pl From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Sat Nov 14 15:08:07 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:08:07 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos Message-ID: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> hi what's the current status of deltarpms and presto for centos? i'm just rebuild deltarpms, presto-utils, yum-presto packages from fedora for centos. is there any plan to add them to centos extras? what's the current state? i'm interested about not just using but generating deltarpms enabled repositories. imho it can save a lot's of bandwith for everybody (not to mention if presto will use google's courgette algorithm too). thanks in advance. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From jdieter at gmail.com Sat Nov 14 16:59:21 2009 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:59:21 +0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 16:08 +0100, Farkas Levente wrote: > hi > what's the current status of deltarpms and presto for centos? i'm just > rebuild deltarpms, presto-utils, yum-presto packages from fedora for > centos. is there any plan to add them to centos extras? what's the > current state? i'm interested about not just using but generating > deltarpms enabled repositories. imho it can save a lot's of bandwith for > everybody (not to mention if presto will use google's courgette > algorithm too). > thanks in advance. > FWIW, deltarpm is already in EPEL and I don't mind putting yum-presto there as well (though both would probably be better served in CentOS extras if we want CentOS to use them). There are currently test CentOS 5.4 repositories with deltarpms at http://lesloueizeh.com/centos5 (though they get updated manually, which means not too frequently). As for presto and courgette, I'll respond to that at: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512515 Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091114/7bc1ae40/attachment.bin From florian.laroche at gmx.net Sun Nov 15 16:21:15 2009 From: florian.laroche at gmx.net (Florian La Roche) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:21:15 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] mock-0.9.19 on CentOS5/RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <4AFDA0CA.60504@redhat.com> References: <20091112064016.GA7908@knorke.jur-linux.org> <4AFDA0CA.60504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20091115162115.GA11701@knorke.jur-linux.org> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 01:09:14PM -0500, Mike McLean wrote: > On 11/12/2009 01:40 AM, Florian La Roche wrote: > >if you want to run the newest version of mock (0.9.19) > >with RHEL5/CentOS5, you can use a backported version from: > > > >http://www.jur-linux.org/rpms/el-updates/5/SRPMS/mock-0.9.19-1.el5.src.rpm > >http://www.jur-linux.org/rpms/el-updates/5/i386/mock-0.9.19-1.el5.noarch.rpm > > So basically just reverting the dbus patch (2046136e)? > > Perhaps since RHEL5 is something of an important platform for mock we > should consider making this codepath conditional, or otherwise fix this > without forking. Hello Mike, this small change is all that is needed, at least for a first start. I've put this into bugzilla in August and Clark has done a clean patch within two days, but it is not commited into the public repo and also no new rpm has been pushed out. See bz 516355 for details. Karanbir: You've already emailed the current CentOS position to have one mock version across all of CentOS3/4/5 running and that the newest bits don't qualify for that. This could maybe change next year once CentOS3 does not get updates anymore. I could see similar decisions like e.g. keeping to a mock version starting at initial release of a new major CentOS push-out. (Then CentOS-5 would always stick to the mock release that was used for CentOS-5.0...) Another idea that Red Hat would probably support is to just use the same mock version that also Red Hat uses for their releases, just to have another data point that CentOS is really 100% compatibel to RHEL. (Keeping infrastructure the same should be extended to as many parts as possible.) regards, Florian La Roche From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Sun Nov 15 18:30:48 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:30:48 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> On 11/14/2009 05:59 PM, Jonathan Dieter wrote: > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 16:08 +0100, Farkas Levente wrote: >> hi >> what's the current status of deltarpms and presto for centos? i'm just >> rebuild deltarpms, presto-utils, yum-presto packages from fedora for >> centos. is there any plan to add them to centos extras? what's the >> current state? i'm interested about not just using but generating >> deltarpms enabled repositories. imho it can save a lot's of bandwith for >> everybody (not to mention if presto will use google's courgette >> algorithm too). >> thanks in advance. >> > > FWIW, deltarpm is already in EPEL and I don't mind putting yum-presto > there as well (though both would probably be better served in CentOS > extras if we want CentOS to use them). > > There are currently test CentOS 5.4 repositories with deltarpms at > http://lesloueizeh.com/centos5 (though they get updated manually, which > means not too frequently). ok let make things more specific: deltarpm in epel 3.4-8.el5.1 while in fedora 3.5-0.4.20090913git is there any significant/relevant changes? when do you plan 3.5 release? i'd be useful to add yum-presto to epel too. at the same time which version required by yum-presto? in rhel/centos-5 yum-3.2.22 included, but i read somewhere (and i can't find now where) that at least yum-3.2.23 required. so what's the correct version? also a presto-utils would be useful in epel. rebuilding from fedora presto-utils-0.3.4-3 gives this error: -------------------------------------- byte-compiling /var/tmp/presto-utils-0.3.4-3.el5-root-lfarkas/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/presto-utils/deltarpmd.py to deltarpmd.pyc File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/presto-utils/deltarpmd.py", line 98 class Builder(): ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax -------------------------------------- while running: -------------------------------------- # createdeltarpms . drpms /usr/bin/python: module presto-utils.gendeltarpms not found -------------------------------------- gives the above error on centos-5.4 it's be useful to be at least a minimal manual how we can use these tools and and who we can generate deltarpms. > As for presto and courgette, I'll respond to that at: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512515 ok i respond there too. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From n3npq at mac.com Sun Nov 15 18:44:28 2009 From: n3npq at mac.com (Jeff Johnson) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:44:28 -0500 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <30C9A32E-F468-4F7B-981F-385F5D5B651D@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Farkas Levente wrote: > >> As for presto and courgette, I'll respond to that at: >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512515 > > ok i respond there too. > FWIW, there are deep fundamental design issues wrto Courgette that have nothing to do with with whether Google is choosing Courgette for Chromium peculier updates. For starters: 1) RFC 3229 at http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3229.txt This is what subversion uses (afaik) instead of xdelta While I privately like xdelta _A LOT_ and I think that Josh McDonald's master's thesis, and xdelta[123] are the cat's pajama's, xdelta code is quite obscure and hard to justify deploying generally. YMMV, everyone's does, but (objectively) subevrsion chose vdelta rather than xdelta because xdelta code is insanely difficult and uncommented, and uses vdelta (ala RFC 3229) instead. 2) disassembling code to remove pointer entropy (as in Courgette) maye be a win for executables, but is not generally useful for presto (or packaging). There are other issues, but its entirely unclear whether Courgette is The Right Answer for presto and deltarpm's atm. Disclaimer: YMMV, everyone's does. 73 de Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3370 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091115/d52dffcb/attachment.bin From jdieter at gmail.com Sun Nov 15 19:28:00 2009 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:28:00 +0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 19:30 +0100, Farkas Levente wrote: > ok let make things more specific: > > deltarpm in epel 3.4-8.el5.1 while in fedora 3.5-0.4.20090913git is > there any significant/relevant changes? when do you plan 3.5 release? I'm currently building it and will push it to testing ASAP. The main difference is that it supports xz-compressed RPMS (which shouldn't matter for CentOS) and it has a python API (which will be useful). > i'd be useful to add yum-presto to epel too. at the same time which > version required by yum-presto? in rhel/centos-5 yum-3.2.22 included, > but i read somewhere (and i can't find now where) that at least > yum-3.2.23 required. so what's the correct version? I think presto should work with any modern version of yum, including 3.2.22. In fact, I have at various times used it on my CentOS 5 boxes. I'll see about branching it for EPEL. > also a presto-utils would be useful in epel. rebuilding from fedora > presto-utils-0.3.4-3 gives this error: > it's be useful to be at least a minimal manual how we can use these > tools and and who we can generate deltarpms. Fedora is using createrepo, not presto-utils to generate their deltarpms. Presto-utils should be deprecated (or at least, mainly used for pruning out old drpms, etc). 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Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091115/57752f09/attachment.bin From jdieter at gmail.com Sun Nov 15 19:45:25 2009 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:45:25 +0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <30C9A32E-F468-4F7B-981F-385F5D5B651D@mac.com> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> <30C9A32E-F468-4F7B-981F-385F5D5B651D@mac.com> Message-ID: <1258314325.2240.32.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 13:44 -0500, Jeff Johnson wrote: > FWIW, there are deep fundamental design issues wrto Courgette > that have nothing to do with with whether Google is choosing Courgette > for Chromium peculier updates. > > For starters: > > 1) RFC 3229 at http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3229.txt > > This is what subversion uses (afaik) instead of xdelta > While I privately like xdelta _A LOT_ and I think > that Josh McDonald's master's thesis, and xdelta[123] are > the cat's pajama's, xdelta code is quite obscure and > hard to justify deploying generally. YMMV, everyone's does, but > (objectively) subevrsion chose vdelta rather than xdelta > because xdelta code is insanely difficult and uncommented, > and uses vdelta (ala RFC 3229) instead. FWIW, I think the delta algorithm is one of the smaller problems deltarpm needs to deal with right now. > 2) disassembling code to remove pointer entropy (as in Courgette) > maye be a win for executables, but is not generally useful for presto > (or packaging). To clarify for others following this thread, most of the files in an rpm are data, *not* executables. Deltarpm currently has two big problems that keep it from having hugely efficient deltas even when two rpms have barely changed. 1) Any colored binaries that aren't in a multilib directory (i.e. /usr/bin/*) are never delta'd at all. This was because we didn't want to lose the complete delta because some 32-bit package on a 64-bit machine was missing some file in /usr/bin. We may want to rethink this now as 64-bit installs tend to have fewer 32-bit packages then when this decision was made. 2) A small change in an uncompressed file will result in a huge change after it's been compressed. Many of the larger packages have at least some compressed files and those files are essentially not delta'd at all. In my mind, at least, solving these two problems will have a far bigger effect in reducing deltarpm size than adopting Courgette. Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091115/29ba0d86/attachment.bin From n3npq at mac.com Sun Nov 15 19:59:33 2009 From: n3npq at mac.com (Jeff Johnson) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:59:33 -0500 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <1258314325.2240.32.camel@localhost> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> <30C9A32E-F468-4F7B-981F-385F5D5B651D@mac.com> <1258314325.2240.32.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2009, at 2:45 PM, Jonathan Dieter wrote: > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 13:44 -0500, Jeff Johnson wrote: >> FWIW, there are deep fundamental design issues wrto Courgette >> that have nothing to do with with whether Google is choosing Courgette >> for Chromium peculier updates. >> >> For starters: >> >> 1) RFC 3229 at http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3229.txt >> >> This is what subversion uses (afaik) instead of xdelta >> While I privately like xdelta _A LOT_ and I think >> that Josh McDonald's master's thesis, and xdelta[123] are >> the cat's pajama's, xdelta code is quite obscure and >> hard to justify deploying generally. YMMV, everyone's does, but >> (objectively) subevrsion chose vdelta rather than xdelta >> because xdelta code is insanely difficult and uncommented, >> and uses vdelta (ala RFC 3229) instead. > > FWIW, I think the delta algorithm is one of the smaller problems > deltarpm needs to deal with right now. > But perhaps the current patent infringement actions underway wrto Courgette _IS_ an issue, particularly for Fedorable (and other risk-averse FLOSS distros): http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Patent-action-over-Google-s-Courgette-845028.html But you seem not to be able to find any code relevant to implementing Courgette in presto (per yr bugzilla entries), so it likely Simply Doesn't Matter. >> 2) disassembling code to remove pointer entropy (as in Courgette) >> maye be a win for executables, but is not generally useful for presto >> (or packaging). > > To clarify for others following this thread, most of the files in an rpm > are data, *not* executables. > > Deltarpm currently has two big problems that keep it from having hugely > efficient deltas even when two rpms have barely changed. > > 1) Any colored binaries that aren't in a multilib directory > (i.e. /usr/bin/*) are never delta'd at all. This was because we didn't > want to lose the complete delta because some 32-bit package on a 64-bit > machine was missing some file in /usr/bin. We may want to rethink this > now as 64-bit installs tend to have fewer 32-bit packages then when this > decision was made. > 2) A small change in an uncompressed file will result in a huge change > after it's been compressed. Many of the larger packages have at least > some compressed files and those files are essentially not delta'd at > all. > Heh, colored binaries not in a multilib directory, and doubly compressed files, are the least of the problems with presto deltafication imho. > In my mind, at least, solving these two problems will have a far bigger > effect in reducing deltarpm size than adopting Courgette. > Have fun! 73 de Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3370 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091115/e5d6f1f3/attachment.bin From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Sun Nov 15 21:23:49 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:23:49 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4B007165.4080107@lfarkas.org> On 11/15/2009 08:28 PM, Jonathan Dieter wrote: > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 19:30 +0100, Farkas Levente wrote: >> it's be useful to be at least a minimal manual how we can use these >> tools and and who we can generate deltarpms. > > Fedora is using createrepo, not presto-utils to generate their > deltarpms. Presto-utils should be deprecated (or at least, mainly used > for pruning out old drpms, etc). but rhel/centos has very old createrepo, so we'd have to update createrepo, but it's against centos policy to update packages which is in the upstream distro;-( -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From lfarkas at gmail.com Sun Nov 15 22:25:51 2009 From: lfarkas at gmail.com (Farkas Levente) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:25:51 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4B007165.4080107@lfarkas.org> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> <4B007165.4080107@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <4B007FEF.9040309@gmail.com> On 11/15/2009 10:23 PM, Farkas Levente wrote: > On 11/15/2009 08:28 PM, Jonathan Dieter wrote: >> On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 19:30 +0100, Farkas Levente wrote: >>> it's be useful to be at least a minimal manual how we can use these >>> tools and and who we can generate deltarpms. >> >> Fedora is using createrepo, not presto-utils to generate their >> deltarpms. Presto-utils should be deprecated (or at least, mainly used >> for pruning out old drpms, etc). > > but rhel/centos has very old createrepo, so we'd have to update > createrepo, but it's against centos policy to update packages which is > in the upstream distro;-( and i find createrepo need yum-3.2.23 for delta support so that's another problem:-( -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From ralph.angenendt at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 10:06:38 2009 From: ralph.angenendt at gmail.com (Ralph Angenendt) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:06:38 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: <4B01242E.1040905@googlemail.com> Am 14.11.09 16:08, schrieb Farkas Levente: > hi > what's the current status of deltarpms and presto for centos? i'm just > rebuild deltarpms, presto-utils, yum-presto packages from fedora for > centos. is there any plan to add them to centos extras? what's the > current state? i'm interested about not just using but generating > deltarpms enabled repositories. imho it can save a lot's of bandwith for > everybody (not to mention if presto will use google's courgette > algorithm too). Do you have any metrics? Like: Updates for 5.x are x GB without prestom but only y GB with presto? How much additional space will be required on the mirrors? Other things which might be needed to make a decision? Ralph From jdieter at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 10:26:10 2009 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:26:10 +0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4B01242E.1040905@googlemail.com> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <4B01242E.1040905@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <1258367170.2240.44.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 11:06 +0100, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Am 14.11.09 16:08, schrieb Farkas Levente: > > hi > > what's the current status of deltarpms and presto for centos? i'm just > > rebuild deltarpms, presto-utils, yum-presto packages from fedora for > > centos. is there any plan to add them to centos extras? what's the > > current state? i'm interested about not just using but generating > > deltarpms enabled repositories. imho it can save a lot's of bandwith for > > everybody (not to mention if presto will use google's courgette > > algorithm too). > > Do you have any metrics? > > Like: Updates for 5.x are x GB without prestom but only y GB with > presto? How much additional space will be required on the mirrors? Other > things which might be needed to make a decision? In my presto-enabled CentOS 5.4 i386 mirror, the deltarpms take up 91MB (compared to 1.2GB for the actual RPMS). Total savings tends to be anywhere from 60%-80%, though YMMV. Large packages like openoffice tend to delta well, while packages with lots of compressed files tend to delta poorly. In a rather extreme example, openoffice.org-core-2.3.0-6.11.el5_4.1 is 88MB. The deltarpm from 2.3.0-6.11.el5 is 917K. In a more normal example, kernel-PAE-2.6.18-164.6.1.el5 is 16M, while the deltarpm from 2.6.18-164.2.1.el5 is 2.5MB. Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091116/669a0955/attachment.bin From ralph.angenendt at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 11:52:52 2009 From: ralph.angenendt at gmail.com (Ralph Angenendt) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:52:52 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <1258367170.2240.44.camel@localhost> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <4B01242E.1040905@googlemail.com> <1258367170.2240.44.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4B013D14.2020501@googlemail.com> Am 16.11.09 11:26, schrieb Jonathan Dieter: > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 11:06 +0100, Ralph Angenendt wrote: >> Like: Updates for 5.x are x GB without prestom but only y GB with >> presto? How much additional space will be required on the mirrors? Other >> things which might be needed to make a decision? > > In my presto-enabled CentOS 5.4 i386 mirror, the deltarpms take up 91MB > (compared to 1.2GB for the actual RPMS). Hmmm. 5.3 would be a bit more interesting, as it had a "complete round" of updates, but ... So would you say that ~10% seems like a workable rule of thumb? Another question: Can those repos be mixed or do I have to have an "updates/" and an "updates.presto/" directory? Cheers, Ralph From jdieter at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 12:06:51 2009 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:06:51 +0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4B013D14.2020501@googlemail.com> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <4B01242E.1040905@googlemail.com> <1258367170.2240.44.camel@localhost> <4B013D14.2020501@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <1258373211.2240.54.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 12:52 +0100, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Am 16.11.09 11:26, schrieb Jonathan Dieter: > > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 11:06 +0100, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > >> Like: Updates for 5.x are x GB without prestom but only y GB with > >> presto? How much additional space will be required on the mirrors? Other > >> things which might be needed to make a decision? > > > > In my presto-enabled CentOS 5.4 i386 mirror, the deltarpms take up 91MB > > (compared to 1.2GB for the actual RPMS). > > Hmmm. 5.3 would be a bit more interesting, as it had a "complete round" > of updates, but ... Unfortunately, I cleared out all of the 5.3 deltarpms when I updated to 5.4. I did do deltarpms from 5.3+updates (or was it just 5.3, I'm afraid I don't remember) to 5.4, and it came to 151MB of deltarpms. > So would you say that ~10% seems like a workable rule of thumb? In Fedora, it's much larger (closer to 25% - 30%), but I think that has to do with the fact that in my mirrors, I throw away any deltarpms that save less than 50%, while Fedora seems to keep all generated deltarpms. Also, Fedora goes through far more updates in a cycle (and the updates tend to have bigger changes) than CentOS. I just wish I had kept the 5.3 deltarpms so I could give you a better idea. > Another question: Can those repos be mixed or do I have to have an > "updates/" and an "updates.presto/" directory? Normally, the deltarpms are dumped into "updates/drpms/", while the regular rpms stay in "updates/". One of the most important requirements for yum-presto is that it falls back on regular rpms if the preferred deltarpm doesn't exist, so it's built on top of the regular yum procedure rather than replacing it. Hope that clarifies things. Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091116/ba06f4f1/attachment.bin From tait at clarridge.ca Mon Nov 16 21:41:37 2009 From: tait at clarridge.ca (Tait Clarridge) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:41:37 -0500 Subject: [CentOS-devel] suspend event channel support for xen domU Message-ID: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> Hey Guys, Is there any plan to merge suspend event channel support into the CentOS kernel-xen package? Just doing some work with remus and it is required for PV domU support. I can build my own kernels for now, but was wondering if there is a roadmap for this or whether it is something that needs to be worked on (I can help with testing if required). Best, Tait Clarridge -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091116/e00ee564/attachment.bin From mail-lists at karan.org Mon Nov 16 21:55:15 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:55:15 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] suspend event channel support for xen domU In-Reply-To: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> References: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> Message-ID: <4B01CA43.3020106@karan.org> On 11/16/2009 09:41 PM, Tait Clarridge wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Is there any plan to merge suspend event channel support into the CentOS > kernel-xen package? > > Just doing some work with remus and it is required for PV domU support. > I can build my own kernels for now, but was wondering if there is a > roadmap for this or whether it is something that needs to be worked on > (I can help with testing if required). Akemi, potential for the plus kernel ? - KB From amyagi at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 22:26:32 2009 From: amyagi at gmail.com (Akemi Yagi) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:26:32 -0800 Subject: [CentOS-devel] suspend event channel support for xen domU In-Reply-To: <4B01CA43.3020106@karan.org> References: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> <4B01CA43.3020106@karan.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > On 11/16/2009 09:41 PM, Tait Clarridge wrote: >> Is there any plan to merge suspend event channel support into the CentOS >> kernel-xen package? >> >> Just doing some work with remus and it is required for PV domU support. >> I can build my own kernels for now, but was wondering if there is a >> roadmap for this or whether it is something that needs to be worked on >> (I can help with testing if required). > > Akemi, > > potential for the plus kernel ? > > - KB Only if I could get more details on the "suspend event channel" support. What exactly needs to be changed in the kernel? Akemi From tait at clarridge.ca Mon Nov 16 22:35:14 2009 From: tait at clarridge.ca (Tait Clarridge) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:35:14 -0500 Subject: [CentOS-devel] suspend event channel support for xen domU In-Reply-To: References: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> <4B01CA43.3020106@karan.org> Message-ID: <1258410914.9645.13.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 14:26 -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > > On 11/16/2009 09:41 PM, Tait Clarridge wrote: > > >> Is there any plan to merge suspend event channel support into the CentOS > >> kernel-xen package? > >> > >> Just doing some work with remus and it is required for PV domU support. > >> I can build my own kernels for now, but was wondering if there is a > >> roadmap for this or whether it is something that needs to be worked on > >> (I can help with testing if required). > > > > Akemi, > > > > potential for the plus kernel ? > > > > - KB > > Only if I could get more details on the "suspend event channel" > support. What exactly needs to be changed in the kernel? > > Akemi To be honest, I am not quite sure "exactly" what it entails, but I think it is related to: http://xenbits.xen.org/linux-2.6.18-xen.hg?rev/cdadea74443c I can double check with the xen list and post back if you would like. Tait -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091116/fe2d8961/attachment.bin From amyagi at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 23:21:33 2009 From: amyagi at gmail.com (Akemi Yagi) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:21:33 -0800 Subject: [CentOS-devel] suspend event channel support for xen domU In-Reply-To: <1258410914.9645.13.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> References: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> <4B01CA43.3020106@karan.org> <1258410914.9645.13.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Tait Clarridge wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 14:26 -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > To be honest, I am not quite sure "exactly" what it entails, but I think > it is related to: > > http://xenbits.xen.org/linux-2.6.18-xen.hg?rev/cdadea74443c > > I can double check with the xen list and post back if you would like. Porting those patches to the CentOS kernel may not be straightforward. The first file does not exist in CentOS. The second file exists but looks a bit different. So, if someone can offer a version applicable to the CentOS kernel, that would be great. Akemi From tait at clarridge.ca Mon Nov 16 23:26:17 2009 From: tait at clarridge.ca (Tait Clarridge) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:26:17 -0500 Subject: [CentOS-devel] suspend event channel support for xen domU In-Reply-To: References: <1258407697.9645.3.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> <4B01CA43.3020106@karan.org> <1258410914.9645.13.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> Message-ID: <1258413977.9645.24.camel@taiterltp.int.interactivemedia.com> On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 15:21 -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Tait Clarridge wrote: > > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 14:26 -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > > > To be honest, I am not quite sure "exactly" what it entails, but I think > > it is related to: > > > > http://xenbits.xen.org/linux-2.6.18-xen.hg?rev/cdadea74443c > > > > I can double check with the xen list and post back if you would like. > > Porting those patches to the CentOS kernel may not be straightforward. > The first file does not exist in CentOS. The second file exists but > looks a bit different. So, if someone can offer a version applicable > to the CentOS kernel, that would be great. > > Akemi I will talk to the developer who wrote those patches and see what he/we can do to make it more CentOS friendly. Thanks for the input, I will get back to the list if anything comes from this. Best, Tait -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091116/34ad7998/attachment.bin From fabian.arrotin at arrfab.net Tue Nov 17 19:32:43 2009 From: fabian.arrotin at arrfab.net (Fabian Arrotin) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:32:43 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> Message-ID: <4B02FA5B.5050502@arrfab.net> Karanbir Singh wrote: > hi guys, > > > > CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for > the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip > from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on > howto achieve this online well in advance. > As the meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, can we have details about how to connect , etc ? -- -- Fabian Arrotin idea=`grep -i clue /dev/brain` test -z "$idea" && echo "sorry, init 6 in progress" || sh ./answer.sh From mail-lists at karan.org Tue Nov 17 23:46:10 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:46:10 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4B02FA5B.5050502@arrfab.net> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4B02FA5B.5050502@arrfab.net> Message-ID: <4B0335C2.5000608@karan.org> On 11/17/2009 07:32 PM, Fabian Arrotin wrote: > As the meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, can we have details about how > to connect , etc ? make sure you have functional voip ( as in you should be able to register with a voip service already - and be able to call a voip id like : @voip.centos.org the exact conf code / number will be posted to #centos-devel on irc.freenode.net an hour before the call is to take place. We do have dial in pstn numbers for the UK and the US - so if you need or prefer those ( they are al regional numbers, not toll free ) ping me there in #centos-devel and I will pass them onto you. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219 at icq From lfarkas at lfarkas.org Wed Nov 18 15:16:40 2009 From: lfarkas at lfarkas.org (Farkas Levente) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:16:40 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4B040FD8.5060705@lfarkas.org> On 11/15/2009 08:28 PM, Jonathan Dieter wrote: > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 19:30 +0100, Farkas Levente wrote: >> ok let make things more specific: >> >> deltarpm in epel 3.4-8.el5.1 while in fedora 3.5-0.4.20090913git is >> there any significant/relevant changes? when do you plan 3.5 release? > > I'm currently building it and will push it to testing ASAP. The main > difference is that it supports xz-compressed RPMS (which shouldn't > matter for CentOS) and it has a python API (which will be useful). > >> i'd be useful to add yum-presto to epel too. at the same time which >> version required by yum-presto? in rhel/centos-5 yum-3.2.22 included, >> but i read somewhere (and i can't find now where) that at least >> yum-3.2.23 required. so what's the correct version? > > I think presto should work with any modern version of yum, including > 3.2.22. In fact, I have at various times used it on my CentOS 5 boxes. > I'll see about branching it for EPEL. > >> also a presto-utils would be useful in epel. rebuilding from fedora >> presto-utils-0.3.4-3 gives this error: > >> it's be useful to be at least a minimal manual how we can use these >> tools and and who we can generate deltarpms. > > Fedora is using createrepo, not presto-utils to generate their > deltarpms. Presto-utils should be deprecated (or at least, mainly used > for pruning out old drpms, etc). FYI: now i able to do build and run delta update on my systems, but there was a few problems: - i use http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/'s createrepo-0.9.8-2.el5 for generating deltarpms and delta repo and use fedora's yum-presto. - unfortunately this version of createrepo is not able to generate sha1 checksum for the repo (at least even if i set it on the command line i've got a python stack trace), but rhel/centos-5 doesn't have sha256 in python my default so you've to install python-hashlib and add createrepo to depend on it. imho it's a createrepo bug. - and also remove the versioned yum req from createrepo since 5.4's yum is enough. - but as it generate sha256 checksum i also have to add python-hashlib req for yum-presto (otherwise it can't check the checksum on the client side). ps. another strange problem that in one of our internal rpm the deltarpm rebuild failed: ------------------------------------------ 93% [=========================================================================- ] 521 kB/s | 180 MB 00:25 ETA //var/cache/yum/xxx-beta-4.2.1-5082/deltas/xxx-4.2.0-4763.el5_4.2.1-5082.el5.i386.drpm: md5 mismatch of result | 193 MB 05:11 Error rebuilding rpm from xxx-4.2.0-4763.el5_4.2.1-5082.el5.i386.drpm! Will download full package. Presto reduced the update size by 74% (from 193 M to 51 M). ------------------------------------------ but good to know that fall back to normal rpm is working:-) -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Wed Nov 18 15:19:46 2009 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (Seth Vidal) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:19:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CentOS-devel] deltarpm and presto for centos In-Reply-To: <4B040FD8.5060705@lfarkas.org> References: <4AFEC7D7.9040703@lfarkas.org> <1258217961.2240.7.camel@localhost> <4B0048D8.2090100@lfarkas.org> <1258313280.2240.14.camel@localhost> <4B040FD8.5060705@lfarkas.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Farkas Levente wrote: > FYI: > now i able to do build and run delta update on my systems, but there was > a few problems: > - i use http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/'s > createrepo-0.9.8-2.el5 for generating deltarpms and delta repo and use > fedora's yum-presto. > - unfortunately this version of createrepo is not able to generate sha1 > checksum for the repo (at least even if i set it on the command line > i've got a python stack trace), but rhel/centos-5 doesn't have sha256 in > python my default so you've to install python-hashlib and add createrepo > to depend on it. imho it's a createrepo bug. createrepo -s sha /path/ works just fine for me on 0.9.8-2 If you have a bug, file it. -sv From mail-lists at karan.org Wed Nov 18 19:32:12 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:32:12 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> Message-ID: <4B044BBC.6080009@karan.org> On 02/11/09 12:17, Karanbir Singh wrote: > I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC. People interested in this meeting should drop into #centos-devel /irc.freenode.net and get details on where to connect. I am in there now ( On the irc channel, and the conf room ) - KB From mail-lists at karan.org Thu Nov 19 12:23:55 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:23:55 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> Message-ID: <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> Hi, The meeting last evening was mostly fruitful. There were 4 major points that came through: 1) Do we want the language specific content to go in as .centos.org with forums and a small portal behind each one of those ( like fr.centos.org ) - or is it more userfriendly to have the resources abstracted out and each language specific content being marked in different namespace from the english content - eg. wiki.centos.org and wiki.centos.org/es . This would imply a forums.centos.org comes up and the spanish specific content is held at forums.centos.org/es 2) A unified login setup is considered fairly high value, so one username/password would work across all the various *.centos.org sites. There are a few different ways to achieve this, however only when the user facing decisions are made will we look into this so as to not waste time with options that are not usable or will not be usable in the final setup. 3) We want to ideally only have one instance of any bit of software, and have that support the languages natively. If there isnt any support for multiple languages - consider what is involved in bringing that language support in. 4) Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions. During the meeting it was agreed that we would discuss these points here in the lists so as to get some traction around them. And then have another 45 min chat[1] in a few weeks time to recap on development and also to finalise what questions need to be in the questionnaire. - KB [1]: so if you are 40 min late, dont be surprised if everyone else leaves after 5 minutes :) From cleber.lists at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 00:55:21 2009 From: cleber.lists at gmail.com (Cleber Souza) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:55:21 -0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > > Hi, > > The meeting last evening was mostly fruitful. There were 4 major points > that came through: > > 1) Do we want the language specific content to go in as > .centos.org with forums and a small portal behind each one of > those ( like fr.centos.org ) - or is it more userfriendly to have the > resources abstracted out and each language specific content being marked > in different namespace from the english content - eg. wiki.centos.org > and wiki.centos.org/es . This would imply a forums.centos.org comes up > and the spanish specific content is held at forums.centos.org/es > > 2) A unified login setup is considered fairly high value, so one > username/password would work across all the various *.centos.org sites. > There are a few different ways to achieve this, however only when the > user facing decisions are made will we look into this so as to not waste > time with options that are not usable or will not be usable in the final > setup. 1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal. I think that either options have their benefits and we are used to encounter both scenarios in a dozen of websites over there. For users that know the direct site, they will remember the direct link to the language specify website. For others, the entry point will be www.centos.org that will have a list of language specific websites or even could redirect the user to the properly website based on users' web browser language settings. For the last option, should be default to all language specific websites have a drop-down list containing all language specific websites available. > > 3) We want to ideally only have one instance of any bit of software, and > have that support the languages natively. If there isnt any support for > multiple languages - consider what is involved in bringing that language > support in. Again, Drupal has all the resources and modules to all this internationalization contents. Users are first redirect to the website based on the browser settings and could set the preferred language into their profile. For news and most of the contents, the same content have place for all the necessary translations, defaulting to english when the translation is not ready. It seem to me excellent for the primary page, news and general contents. For forums I have tested nothing yet. > > 4) Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont > themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they > are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and > then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. > Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working > on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions. I have done little use of the forums. > > During the meeting it was agreed that we would discuss these points here > in the lists so as to get some traction around them. And then have > another 45 min chat[1] in a few weeks time to recap on development and > also to finalise what questions need to be in the questionnaire. > I think I was in [1] :) > - KB > > [1]: so if you are 40 min late, dont be surprised if everyone else > leaves after 5 minutes :) > _______________________________________________ > CentOS-devel mailing list > CentOS-devel at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel > -- Cleber Paiva de Souza From trekkie101 at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 01:03:30 2009 From: trekkie101 at gmail.com (Graeme Spence) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:03:30 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2009, at 12:23, Karanbir Singh wrote: > > 4) Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont > themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they > are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and > then have the existing forum users and list users provide some > feedback. > Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs > working > on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions. > Not to over extend my welcome, but I'm still subscribed to the mailing lists from the last discussions on forums/site. Still active on the Simple Machines Team producing SMF, but I could probably help out with general forum "stuff" with whatever choice is taken. Can probably answer most questions on usage and trends. -Graeme -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/attachments/20091120/e8bffeef/attachment.html From mail at marcus-moeller.de Fri Nov 20 07:58:48 2009 From: mail at marcus-moeller.de (Marcus Moeller) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:58:48 +0100 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> Message-ID: Hi all. > 4) Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont > themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they > are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and > then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. > Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working > on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions. > > Not to over extend my welcome, but I'm still subscribed to the mailing lists > from the last discussions on forums/site. Still active on the Simple > Machines Team producing SMF, but I could probably help out with general > forum "stuff" with whatever choice is taken. Can probably answer most > questions on usage and trends. I guess the question is not about which software should be used. There has been an evaluation process in the past: http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums and migration scripts from new-bb to phpbb are already available and ready for testing: http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums/newbb_to_phpbb The question is how a setup should look like, and imho something like: forums.centos.org - holding the main english forums and forums.centos.org/$LANG for language specific forums is a good solution and would match the actual wiki layout. Besides that, I still think a section within the main forum (like French CentOS support) and a multilingual forum backend should fit in first place. If the demand is getting higher a real subforum in forum of forums.centos.org/$LANG could be created. Best Regards Marcus From mail-lists at karan.org Fri Nov 20 10:38:34 2009 From: mail-lists at karan.org (Karanbir Singh) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:38:34 +0000 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> Message-ID: <4B0671AA.2070303@karan.org> On 11/20/2009 12:55 AM, Cleber Souza wrote: > 1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal. At this time, were not really interested in even considering what software is to be used or how its going to be used. The focus really *does* need to be on what the end result would look like along with some user stories, we can then work back from there and work out what needs done and how. -- Karanbir Singh London, UK | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc From cleber.lists at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 15:08:06 2009 From: cleber.lists at gmail.com (Cleber Souza) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:08:06 -0200 Subject: [CentOS-devel] Lang subsites/ portals In-Reply-To: References: <4AEECDCE.7090407@karan.org> <4B0538DB.2060906@karan.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:58 AM, Marcus Moeller wrote: > Hi all. > >> 4) Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont >> themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they >> are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and >> then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. >> Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working >> on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions. >> >> Not to over extend my welcome, but I'm still subscribed to the mailing lists >> from the last discussions on forums/site. Still active on the Simple >> Machines Team producing SMF, but I could probably help out with general >> forum "stuff" with whatever choice is taken. Can probably answer most >> questions on usage and trends. > > I guess the question is not about which software should be used. There > has been an evaluation process in the past: > > http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums > > and migration scripts from new-bb to phpbb are already available and > ready for testing: > > http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums/newbb_to_phpbb Sorry, I saw this link in the past. My intended was just to cite a tool that solve by itself all the questions about internationalization. > > The question is how a setup should look like, and imho something like: > > forums.centos.org - holding the main english forums > and > forums.centos.org/$LANG for language specific forums > I personally like this kind of organization. > is a good solution and would match the actual wiki layout. > > Besides that, I still think a section within the main forum (like > French CentOS support) and a multilingual forum backend should fit in > first place. If the demand is getting higher a real subforum in forum > of forums.centos.org/$LANG could be created. > > Best Regards > Marcus > _______________________________________________ > CentOS-devel mailing list > CentOS-devel at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel > -- Cleber Paiva de Souza