<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:02 AM Phil Perry <<a href="mailto:pperry@elrepo.org">pperry@elrepo.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 10/12/2020 12:39, Phelps, Matthew wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 7:20 AM Josh Boyer <<a href="mailto:jwboyer@redhat.com" target="_blank">jwboyer@redhat.com</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jwboyer@redhat.com" target="_blank">jwboyer@redhat.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:40 AM Ljubomir Ljubojevic <<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > On 12/9/20 4:25 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote:<br>
> > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:16 AM Phil Perry <<a href="mailto:pperry@elrepo.org" target="_blank">pperry@elrepo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pperry@elrepo.org" target="_blank">pperry@elrepo.org</a>><br>
> > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:pperry@elrepo.org" target="_blank">pperry@elrepo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pperry@elrepo.org" target="_blank">pperry@elrepo.org</a>>>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 09/12/2020 15:08, Brendan Conoboy wrote:<br>
> > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:59 AM Ljubomir Ljubojevic<br>
> > > <<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a>>><br>
> > > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:centos@plnet.rs" target="_blank">centos@plnet.rs</a>>>>> wrote:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > So when you remove binary compatibility, why would anyone<br>
> > > bother with<br>
> > > > CentOS/RHEL unless they want a job in a company that<br>
> pays for RHEL<br>
> > > > support?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > What sort of binaries are you concerned about being<br>
> incompatible?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Any kernel device drivers, for a start. Kind of critical if<br>
> your<br>
> > > SAS/RAID device wont boot, or your network device doesn't<br>
> come up, or<br>
> > > your GUI doesn't start because your display drivers aren't<br>
> compatible<br>
> > > anymore. Just minor things like that maybe?<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > OK, so out-of-tree drivers. If those keep on working does that<br>
> make<br>
> > > CentOS Stream viable for your use?<br>
> ><br>
> > The problem we CentOS users have with "RHEL Stream" is "IF" it<br>
> works. I<br>
> > do not want to think about "IF". RHEL Stream is meant to constantly,<br>
> > daily get packages and patches that are not yet tested, to BE<br>
> tested on<br>
> <br>
> This is actually not the case. Today, our RHEL development model<br>
> requires package updates to undergo testing before they are included<br>
> in the distribution, even internally. CentOS Stream will continue<br>
> this trend as we upstream many of our RHEL CI workflows to Stream<br>
> itself.<br>
> <br>
> > users. From RHEL Stream FAQ: "CentOS Stream is a distribution that<br>
> > community members can use to take advantage of a stable ABI/API for<br>
> > development and testing," DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING.<br>
> <br>
> It would be disingenuous to say Stream won't have bugs. All software<br>
> development has bugs. However, the "development and testing" part<br>
> actually extends to the development and testing of the software *you*<br>
> are developing. Stream exists as a base for you to do your own<br>
> development and testing.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> *WE* aren't doing development and testing! We're running systems that <br>
> are trying to get work done. The whole POINT of CentOS was a recompile <br>
> of the Open Source parts of RHEL. A stable *Enterprise* level operating <br>
> system.<br>
> <br>
> Do you people not understand that??<br>
> <br>
<br>
Matthew,<br>
<br>
To be fair, this is the CentOS Devel list. Perhaps your comments would <br>
be better placed or more suited to the main CentOS mailing list, but <br>
this list exists specifically to discuss the development of CentOS. If <br>
you are not active in that, or do not want to participate, that's fine <br>
but stick to the users list which would be the correct list for you.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Fair point, although there has been a lot of cross-posting with <a href="mailto:centos@centos.org">centos@centos.org</a> on this thread.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
> <br>
> > I do not have time to mess with "might work, might not" testing<br>
> distro,<br>
> > otherwise I would play on the sand with Fedora. RHEL clone is best<br>
> > available option and in return for me using code prepared for<br>
> RHEL I was<br>
> > telling anyone who would listen how CentOS is great, for me<br>
> better then<br>
> > Debian/Ubuntu or other distro's. CentOS Facebook group has more<br>
> members<br>
> > then Fedora FB group, partially due to me posting ton of resource<br>
> links<br>
> > and how-to's and helping anyone who asked for help even if I had<br>
> to look<br>
> > for answer my self.<br>
> > I do NOT have FAITH that Stream will be production ready, and I<br>
> do not<br>
> > have free time to experiment or check if it will work or not when<br>
> I run<br>
> > update, and that is only thing that matters. No amount of "do not<br>
> worry"<br>
> > will change my mind. As soon as it is crystal clear (I still<br>
> hope) that<br>
> > "CentOS Linux" is dead, I will stop advocating for CentOS, actually I<br>
> > will start advocating AGAINST CentOS and look for alternatives,<br>
> either<br>
> > other clones or Debian.<br>
> ><br>
> > I will not respond to any more e-mails or tweets about this<br>
> topic, there<br>
> > is nothing more to be said except R.I.P CentOS :-(<br>
> <br>
> I understand if you don't want to continue the conversation. I do<br>
> want to say that with CentOS Stream, we're committed to developing a<br>
> stable and world class project that literally produces RHEL. I hope<br>
> in the future if you decide to revisit your OS choice that you take a<br>
> moment and see what we're doing here. I think you might find that<br>
> we're working very hard to avoid the things you're concerned about,<br>
> because we *need* to avoid those same things in RHEL anyway.<br>
> <br>
> josh<br>
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> <a href="mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org" target="_blank">CentOS-devel@centos.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org" target="_blank">CentOS-devel@centos.org</a>><br>
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> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> <br>
> *Matt Phelps*<br>
> <br>
> *Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*<br>
> <br>
> (Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)<br>
> <br>
> Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> 60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138<br>
> <br>
> email: <a href="mailto:mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank">mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank">mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt"><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="445"><col width="275"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:90pt"><td style="border-width:1pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(255,255,255);vertical-align:top;padding:5pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><b>Matt Phelps</b></span></font></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><b>Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator</b></span></font></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap">(Computation Facility</span></font>, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)</p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138</span></p>email: <a href="mailto:mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank">mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu</a><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/27BMxsC8PNyf5KTQKk3XXgRO_wLFfyTSJqSrArFVTHKzXR-F1GM1dkcbALumtHfQ-XywY0HszACvTxfNbNnsqTuqwev72DoKnMS2En3SUhoeOKsxS99pFgxp2akTBd5ZxwXeEzzl" width="350" height="2" style="border: none;"></span></p></td></tr><tr style="height:27pt"><td style="border-width:1pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(255,255,255);vertical-align:top;padding:5pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/0ZtY7OVp7JUE6c07iw9qwGi25245c2MSrx0T-u7t_VYr2OiN3uMr1Jh6vzqHA2BI1cu-jzLev-aiZqCW66HIMgeobZ8Wx1MzwRuOKD6QO_iWs8llxnwIpoaocLzQ8YF7gDocGPk7" width="149" height="65" style="border: none;"></span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="http://cfa.harvard.edu/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">cfa.harvard.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> | </span><a href="http://cfa.harvard.edu/facebook" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Facebook</span></a><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> | </span><a href="http://cfa.harvard.edu/twitter" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Twitter</span></a><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> | </span><a href="http://cfa.harvard.edu/youtube" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">YouTube</span></a><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> | </span><a href="http://cfa.harvard.edu/newsletter" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Newsletter</span></a></p></td></tr><tr style="height:27pt"><td style="border-width:1pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(255,255,255);vertical-align:top;padding:5pt"><br></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>