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<title>RE: [CentOS-virt] CentOS 6 Virt SIG Xen 4.6 packages available in centos-virt-xen-testing</title>
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<p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span id="_mce_caret" data-mce-bogus="true"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">My .02 is to stay the course. As a server admin, I want to be able to type things like:<br></span></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">yum upgrade php</span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> not</span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">yum upgrade php55-epel-rpmforge-fancy-package</span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Having to remember all the idiosyncrasies of a system is what causes some type of major failure in the future whenever (1) you forget something or (2) someone else has to pick up the box to adminster.</span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span data-mce-bogus="true" id="_mce_caret"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">--</span></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span data-mce-bogus="true" id="_mce_caret"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Craig Thompson, President<br></span></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Caldwell Global Communications, Inc.<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">+1 (423) 559-5465<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">caldwellglobal.com<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><p style="padding: 0; margin: 0;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></p><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid #325FBA; padding-left: 5px; margin: 0px 5px;"><span style="font-family:tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original message-----<br><span><strong>From:</strong> George Dunlap <dunlapg@umich.edu></span><br><span><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday 21st January 2016 7:32</span><br><span><strong>To:</strong> Discussion about the virtualization on CentOS <centos-virt@centos.org></span><br><span><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [CentOS-virt] CentOS 6 Virt SIG Xen 4.6 packages available in centos-virt-xen-testing</span><br><br></span><div><pre wrap="" style="white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; white-space: pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Peter <peter@pajamian.dhs.org> wrote:<br>> On 15/01/16 05:57, George Dunlap wrote:<br>>> As mentioned yesterday, Xen 4.6 packages are now available for<br>>> testing. These also include an update to libvirt 1.3.0, in line with<br>>> what's available for CentOS 7. Please test, particularly the upgrade<br>>> if you can, and report any problems here.<br>><br>> Per conversation in IRC, Xen 4.6 no longer includes xend and therefore<br>> no longer has the "xm" command. This is problematic for people who may<br>> be using xm in various scripts on their host (such as home-brewed backup<br>> scripts).<br>><br>> I think it's a bad idea to break this functionality without warning by<br>> allowing a simple "yum update" to remove it. You will take a lot of<br>> people by surprise and cause such scripts to stop working, if people are<br>> running yum cron the situation becomes even worse.<br><br>Thanks, PJ, for your input.<br><br>Just to be clear:<br><br>1. In the Xen 4.4 packages (first released October 2014), xend was<br>disabled by default; so anyone using xend at the moment has already<br>manually intervened to enable deprecated functionality<br><br>2. In 4.4, the first time xm was executed, it printed this warning:<br>---<br>xend is deprecated and scheduled for removal. Please migrate to another<br>toolstack ASAP.<br><br>See http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Choice_of_Toolstacks for information on<br>other alternatives, including xl which is designed to be a drop in<br>replacement for xm (http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XL).<br>---<br><br>3. ...and on every subsequent invocation, it printed this warning:<br>"WARNING: xend/xm is deprecated"<br><br>I think this constitutes "warning" that the functionality was going to<br>break at some point. :-)<br><br>Also, in most cases "s/xm/xl/g;" Just Works; most people have reported<br>that changing from xm -> xl was pretty painless. So this isn't like<br>upgrading from Python 2 to Python 3 (or QT 4 to 5, or...).<br><br>> I think that due to this lack of backwards compatibility with Xen 4.4<br>> and earlier versions it would be a good idea to not force the upgrade on<br>> people who are not wary of it. I propose that the new packages carry<br>> the name "xen46" and they purposefully conflict with the old "xen"<br>> packages. That will require people to take positive action to do the<br>> upgrade and hence avoid breaking systems unintentionally.<br><br>This would avoid breaking things for people still using xm, which<br>certainly has some value. However it has some costs:<br><br>* The packages between C6 and C7 will now be slightly different,<br>increasing the maintenance burden. This is not only in the spec file,<br>but also in all the associated scripting machinery for managing<br>packages in the CBS and smoke-testing packages before pushing them<br>publicly.<br><br>* Instructions for installing Xen are now differend between C6 and C7,<br>and slightly more complicated, as they have to explain about Xen 4.6<br>vs alternatives.<br><br>* Users who have heeded the warning and switched to xl will have to<br>make an extra effort to switch to Xen 4.6. If they don't follow<br>centos-virt, they may not notice that there's a new package to upgrade<br>to.<br><br>I'm a developer, not a server admin, so I can't gauge how important<br>this issue is. Before making such a change, I'd like to hear opinions<br>from other people in the community about how important (or not) it is<br>to avoid breaking xm, given the ample warning (>1 year) users have<br>had.<br><br>On the other hand, explicitly moving to a "xen${VER}" (both for C6 and<br>C7) would make it simpler for people to step up and maintain older<br>versions in parallel if anybody wanted to do so.<br><br>Thanks again, Peter, for bringing this up.<br><br>Peace,<br> -George<br>_______________________________________________<br>CentOS-virt mailing list<br>CentOS-virt@centos.org<br>https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-virt<br></pre></div></blockquote>
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