[CentOS] Re: CentOS Digest, Vol 38, Issue 15
get at ntusa.net
get at ntusa.netSat Mar 15 23:17:51 UTC 2008
- Previous message: [CentOS] Gnash 0.8.2 rpm for CentOS 4?
- Next message: [CentOS] what should I do?
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
Nmhxc Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld -----Original Message----- From: centos-request at centos.org Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:00:07 To:centos at centos.org Subject: CentOS Digest, Vol 38, Issue 15 Send CentOS mailing list submissions to centos at centos.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to centos-request at centos.org You can reach the person managing the list at centos-owner at centos.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CentOS digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 2. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 3. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 4. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Toby Bluhm) 5. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (John Plemons) 6. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 7. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 8. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Toby Bluhm) 9. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 10. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Tom Brown) 11. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 12. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 13. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 14. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 15. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Tom Brown) 16. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 17. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 18. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 19. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 20. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 21. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Toby Bluhm) 22. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 23. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 24. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Toby Bluhm) 25. Re: evince on centos5.1 (Peter Farrell) 26. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 27. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Peter Farrell) 28. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 29. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 30. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Niki Kovacs) 31. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Toby Bluhm) 32. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (John R Pierce) 33. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 34. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Fajar Priyanto) 35. Re: evince on centos5.1 (Anne Wilson) 36. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 37. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 38. Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box (Scott Silva) 39. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 40. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 41. Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Scott Silva) 42. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Niki Kovacs) 43. Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box (Scott Silva) 44. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 45. Open extra ports on firewall? (Niki Kovacs) 46. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 47. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Scott Silva) 48. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Alan Bartlett) 49. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 50. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 51. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Alex White) 52. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 53. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 54. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Niki Kovacs) 55. Re: Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 56. Re: Re: 10Gbit ethernet (Chris Payne) 57. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 58. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 59. Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server (Sean Carolan) 60. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Dennis McLeod) 61. Re: Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 62. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Dennis McLeod) 63. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 64. Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server (Sean Carolan) 65. Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Scott Silva) 66. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 67. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 68. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 69. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Therese Trudeau) 70. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Ross S. W. Walker) 71. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 72. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box (Les Mikesell) 73. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Les Mikesell) 74. Thunderbird: can't seem to install french spell checker (Niki Kovacs) 75. MSG for Barry (Christopher E) 76. Re: Gnome desktop, workspaces and windows (James B. Byrne) 77. RE: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Ross S. W. Walker) 78. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Robert Spangler) 79. Re: php 4/5 dependency question (Rogelio) 80. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Nicolas KOWALSKI) 81. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Les Mikesell) 82. Re: Good version control package? (Amos Shapira) 83. Re: evince on centos5.1 (MHR) 84. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Les Mikesell) 85. Re: Overland Arcvault 12 and sequential/random settings (Scott R. Ehrlich) 86. Re: Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird? (mouss) 87. Re: Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird? (Bill Campbell) 88. Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server (Sean Carolan) 89. Incremental backups? (Scott R. Ehrlich) 90. Re: Incremental backups? (Fajar Priyanto) 91. Re: Incremental backups? (Les Mikesell) 92. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Niki Kovacs) 93. Re: Incremental backups? (Mogens Kjaer) 94. Firefox 3 (Niki Kovacs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:37:34 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W22EE454074ED065BC675CBCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > Adaptec makes both true HW raid and re-sells fakeraid cards. I guess they > wanted a piece of both pies. But 3ware only makes HW raid cards AFAIK. How well do you think the adaptecSATA raid cards stack up against the Areca and 3ware RAID cards? I'm going to buy two raid cards over the weekend. _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:55:43 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W12EDA65146D8C94471CADCCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) > > Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to > help if your PS fails. That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID 1 setup I'm planning is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so there is not the traditional slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case. Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they exist)? _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:08:39 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W3649DEFC4C59300C5F1551CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) >>> >> >> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to >> help if your PS fails. >> >> > > redundant power supplies connected to redundant UPS's. I've seen more > UPS failures than I've ever had failed PSUs on proper server grade hardware. This might be getting a bit elaborate for a desktop machine. I really want RAID because I'm tired every couple years of hard drive crashes and having to start from scratch and spending a week setting up new drives and getting my design software back on line and trying to recover data. What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape backup with bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine a solution which would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard dies and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up software has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home I have one Linux and one Windows desktop machine. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:08:42 -0400 From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA78DA.5050302 at MidwestInstruments.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: >>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) >>> >> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to >> help if your PS fails. >> > > That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID 1 setup I'm planning > is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so there is not the traditional > slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some > specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case. > > Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they exist)? > > The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't just plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry that attempts to monitor & balance them out. I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ? -- Toby Bluhm Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc. 30825 Aurora Road Suite 100 Solon Ohio 44139 440-424-2240 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:23:40 -0400 From: John Plemons <john at mavin.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA7C5C.2030403 at mavin.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Once you get a handle on what you are after check back with me, I have a bunch of Raid controllers I picked up from a systems dealer who went out of business. Some LSI's ICP, ICP says they are an Adaptec company and a couple of other off brands... May be able to save you a few bucks, all are new, oem style... john Therese Trudeau wrote: > Hi, > > I'm considering setting up my Centos Desktop machine for RAID 1. I read a lot of good info at this site:http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html#intel-vitesse about differences in fakeraid and real raid cards. > > The hardware I plan on installing this RAID card into is an Intel DP35DP motherboard with the Intel E4500 dual core processor, and I have two Mator 500 gig SATA hard drives. > > Can anyone recommend a good “real raid” card for my Linux? What I am looking for is to plug in a RAID controller card out of the box, and without having to load any drivers onto my Centos 5.1 box, have the Real hardware RAID card automatically do all the work, mirror my hard drive onto the second backup drive and do all the work for me. > > Do such cards exist? If so which model /manufacturers do you recommend? Any experiences/info/insights on hardware RAID cards good or bad on centos boxes would be appreciated. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan_______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:29:26 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0006 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Therese, You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a desktop machine. You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go. You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second RAID set to an LV on the first. No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro to be able to read your files. Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. -Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: centos-bounces at centos.org <centos-bounces at centos.org> To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Sent: Fri Mar 14 09:08:39 2008 Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a “real RAID" 1 card on Centos box >>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) >>> >> >> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to >> help if your PS fails. >> >> > > redundant power supplies connected to redundant UPS's. I've seen more > UPS failures than I've ever had failed PSUs on proper server grade hardware. This might be getting a bit elaborate for a desktop machine. I really want RAID because I'm tired every couple years of hard drive crashes and having to start from scratch and spending a week setting up new drives and getting my design software back on line and trying to recover data. What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape backup with bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine a solution which would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard dies and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up software has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home I have one Linux and one Windows desktop machine. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/232543b2/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:31:00 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W5A6664E4F2A69987CE2DCCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > That is true, buy high quality stuff up front for fewer problems down > the road. Not a sure bet, but a better one. In the half dozen systems > I've been running at home for the past several years none of them > have suffered a hardware failure of any kind(fortunately). I've been > running PC Power and Cooling power supplies for about 9 years now, > really high quality PSUs(last one I bought was about 4 years ago, can't > speak for their quality now). So for a top quality power supply for a mission critical desktop machine, which brand(s) would you reccomend? One of the towers I have is a Thermaltake Xaser 3 with lots of room, and I just bought a new Antec Sonata III tower with a 500 watt PS. > So BBU is certainly a nice thing to have but at least in my > experience isn't absolutely critical. Then for a Mission critical desktop machine, if you had to make a choice, would you go with a good quality UPS and/or redundant power supplies, or a BBU instead? > Of course for absolutely critical things I don't use server-based > RAID anyways. Multiple redundant controllers, multiple redundant > paths(to both the disks and to the hosts), is the way to go(assuming > your application(s) aren't built to be able to run on something > like a distributed file system). I've seen that some of the > latest HP servers have dual ported SAS disks, which sounds pretty > neat. I assume they still only have one controller though. As an alternative to RAID1 for a mission critical desktop machine @ home, what would you reccomend? Maybe a bare metal restore solution able to restore to different hardware, (i.e. if a motherboard dies and drive crashes due to power spike or some catastrophe, I'm screwed if I can't find the exact same make - model)? _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:34:16 -0400 From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA7ED8.5040505 at MidwestInstruments.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Toby Bluhm wrote: > Therese Trudeau wrote: >>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) >>>> >>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to >>> help if your PS fails. >>> >> >> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID >> 1 setup I'm planning >> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so >> there is not the traditional slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 >> and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some >> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case. >> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they >> exist)? >> >> > > The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't > just plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry > that attempts to monitor & balance them out. > > > I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ? > > Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power supply" http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . . -- Toby Bluhm Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc. 30825 Aurora Road Suite 100 Solon Ohio 44139 440-424-2240 ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:34:37 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0007 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered another computer. ----- Original Message ----- From: centos-bounces at centos.org <centos-bounces at centos.org> To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Sent: Fri Mar 14 09:31:00 2008 Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a “real RAID" 1 card on Centos box > That is true, buy high quality stuff up front for fewer problems down > the road. Not a sure bet, but a better one. In the half dozen systems > I've been running at home for the past several years none of them > have suffered a hardware failure of any kind(fortunately). I've been > running PC Power and Cooling power supplies for about 9 years now, > really high quality PSUs(last one I bought was about 4 years ago, can't > speak for their quality now). So for a top quality power supply for a mission critical desktop machine, which brand(s) would you reccomend? One of the towers I have is a Thermaltake Xaser 3 with lots of room, and I just bought a new Antec Sonata III tower with a 500 watt PS. > So BBU is certainly a nice thing to have but at least in my > experience isn't absolutely critical. Then for a Mission critical desktop machine, if you had to make a choice, would you go with a good quality UPS and/or redundant power supplies, or a BBU instead? > Of course for absolutely critical things I don't use server-based > RAID anyways. Multiple redundant controllers, multiple redundant > paths(to both the disks and to the hosts), is the way to go(assuming > your application(s) aren't built to be able to run on something > like a distributed file system). I've seen that some of the > latest HP servers have dual ported SAS disks, which sounds pretty > neat. I assume they still only have one controller though. As an alternative to RAID1 for a mission critical desktop machine @ home, what would you reccomend? Maybe a bare metal restore solution able to restore to different hardware, (i.e. if a motherboard dies and drive crashes due to power spike or some catastrophe, I'm screwed if I can't find the exact same make - model)? _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/50e51a9d/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:41:59 +0000 From: Tom Brown <tom at ng23.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA80A7.5080104 at ng23.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >> >> > > Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power supply" > > http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html > > > Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . . > > i have never understood how something with a single feed can be termed 'redundant' ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:47:14 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W31EB0A7A6C8BD15782798CCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID 1 setup I'm planning >> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so there is not the traditional >> slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some >> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case. >> >> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they exist)? >> >> > > The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't just > plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry that > attempts to monitor & balance them out. Yes I realize that thanks, just wondered if there was some new product combo out there for existing towers, i.e. dual power supplies with controller boards, from your comment I assume there is not. I'd be willing to migrate all of my hardware, i.e. motherboard, monitor card etc, to a new case, if I could find a case which includes a controller card for the power supplies, or a case that comes complete with such. > I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ? Because I use the desktop machines about ten hours a day, I work out of home, doing graphic design, web design, uploading files to server, managing server, etc. The home desktop machines are just as mission critical as the server I upload to is. Maybe more so, because if there is a problem server side, I need remote access to it 24/7. _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:55:44 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W357210198F301E2C649D5BCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >>>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >>>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) >>>>> >>>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to >>>> help if your PS fails. >>>> >>> >>> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID >>> 1 setup I'm planning >>> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so >>> there is not the traditional slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 >>> and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some >>> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case. >>> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they >>> exist)? >>> >>> >> >> The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't >> just plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry >> that attempts to monitor & balance them out. >> >> >> I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ? >> >> > > Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power supply" > > http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html > > > Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . . Hey thank's that's pretty cool, I'll check it out! _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:00:21 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W32020BA21B13113448BC31CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power supply" >> >> http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html >> >> >> Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . . >> >> > > i have never understood how something with a single feed can be termed > 'redundant' Yeah, that PS appears to have only one outlet (unless i'm not seeing it in the photo), most redundant PS's have seperaate outlets for a Y power cable one for each supply. Guess it's not that redundant. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:07:11 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W142FACC4D9DD53193DBDA3CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered another computer. I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home computer than to design a system with redundancy. However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally would not have the redundancy I need in a a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway. _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:09:02 +0000 From: Tom Brown <tom at ng23.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA86FE.1030808 at ng23.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > Yeah, that PS appears to have only one outlet (unless i'm not seeing it in the photo), > most redundant PS's have seperaate outlets for a Y power cable one for each supply. > Guess it's not that redundant. > yes - although i would never use a Y cable - Dual PSU's need 2 feeds from seperate PDU's ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:12:44 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0008 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > > > This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending > > more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered > > another computer. > > I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home > computer than to design a system with redundancy. > However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally > would not have the redundancy I need in a > a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway. I think you missed my point. If workstation A fails, call Dell and have another one overnighted, or call Dell today and order a second workstation to have as a backup or act as a secondary workstation. Their Vostros line is cheap (in appearance, components and price), but is functional, performs well and did I say cheap already, so you can get 2 for the price of 1 highly redundant system. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:20:38 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W4977506C529F51F720FD83CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending >>> more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered >>> another computer. >> >> I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home >> computer than to design a system with redundancy. >> However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally >> would not have the redundancy I need in a >> a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway. > > I think you missed my point. If workstation A fails, call Dell and > have another one overnighted, or call Dell today and order a second > workstation to have as a backup or act as a secondary workstation. > > Their Vostros line is cheap (in appearance, components and price), > but is functional, performs well and did I say cheap already, so > you can get 2 for the price of 1 highly redundant system. Ah I got it now thanks. Does the Vostros come with either a bare metal restore tape backup system or RAID ( which is required for my situation)? _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W25EE830C984F925CBCCFCECF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a desktop machine. > > You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go. > > You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second > RAID set to an LV on the first. > > No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro to be able to read your files. > > Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. > > -Ross That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period? _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:37:57 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000A at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > >>> This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending > >>> more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered > >>> another computer. > >> > >> I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home > >> computer than to design a system with redundancy. > >> However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally > >> would not have the redundancy I need in a > >> a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway. > > > > I think you missed my point. If workstation A fails, call Dell and > > have another one overnighted, or call Dell today and order a second > > workstation to have as a backup or act as a secondary workstation. > > > > Their Vostros line is cheap (in appearance, components and price), > > but is functional, performs well and did I say cheap already, so > > you can get 2 for the price of 1 highly redundant system. > > Ah I got it now thanks. > > Does the Vostros come with either a bare metal restore tape > backup system or RAID > ( which is required for my situation)? They will sell you the moon if you want, but let me give you some practical advice. You seem like you are running your own consulting business, so this advice will not only save you time, but money which is key when running your own business. Buy your computers with NO hardware RAID, your not setting up high performance database systems for hundreds of users here. Get systems with 2 identical internal 250GB SATA drives and setup software RAID1 on them. Get an external USB/Firewire drive, you can even get those in RAID1 too and have automated dump scripts backup your data to it. Install your Linux distro with common reproduceable options using standard repos and document it. Here's how I would setup the internal hard drives, can be done easily through anaconda even with kickstart. /dev/sda1 - 100MB RAID /dev/sda2 - Rest of Disk RAID /dev/sdb1 - 100MB RAID /dev/sdb2 - Rest of Disk RAID /dev/md0 - /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 RAID1, ext3, /boot /dev/md1 - /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 RAID1, LVM VG CentOS - PV /dev/md1 LV root - VG CentOS, 16GB, ext3, / LV swap - VG CentOS, 4GB, swap LV home - VG CentOS, 32GB, ext3, /home LV work - VG CentOS, 64GB, ext3, /work If the system crashes you can move your USB drive over to the other system and restore there, and/or have rsync keep the other system identical to the first. Setup NIS/NFS or whatever to share the data/authentication information. This setup will be more cost effective and faster then what you are currently planning. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:42:40 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W1708824BC4760B9383955ECF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400 > > >> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a desktop machine. >> >> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go. >> >> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second >> RAID set to an LV on the first. >> >> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro to be able to read your files. >> >> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. >> >> -Ross > > That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply > that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. > > That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order > a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards > for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period? ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware raid which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far as adobe products are concerned. _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:47:31 -0400 From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA9003.20308 at MidwestInstruments.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Tom Brown wrote: > >> Yeah, that PS appears to have only one outlet (unless i'm not seeing >> it in the photo), >> most redundant PS's have seperaate outlets for a Y power cable one >> for each supply. >> Guess it's not that redundant. >> > > yes - although i would never use a Y cable - Dual PSU's need 2 feeds > from seperate PDU's > Unless you have another source of AC power or want to use two UPS, then it's not important. -- Toby Bluhm Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc. 30825 Aurora Road Suite 100 Solon Ohio 44139 440-424-2240 ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:21 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000B at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > > > You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed > > for a desktop machine. > > > > You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the > > first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your > > good to go. > > > > You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second > > RAID set to an LV on the first. > > > > No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux > > distro to be able to read your files. > > > > Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you > > getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your > > drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. > > > > -Ross > > That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software > raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply that > would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. > > That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or > acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order > a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know > if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA > 4 port raid cards for several years out? Do they stock past the > three year warranty period? The problem with this is if you buy the previous generation card because it's cheap and vendors stop selling it then you may be SOL. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:53:39 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000C at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400 > > > > > >> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is > >> needed for a desktop machine. > >> > >> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out > >> of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two > >> and your good to go. > >> > >> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on > >> the second > >> RAID set to an LV on the first. > >> > >> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some > >> working Linux distro to be able to read your files. > >> > >> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way > >> of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails > >> then what? Your drives will only work with another identical > >> HW RAID card. > >> > >> -Ross > > > > That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going > > with software raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant > > power supply > > that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. > > > > That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a > > 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would > > be able to order > > a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. > > Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement > > cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards > > for several years out? Do they stock past the three year > > warranty period? > > ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use > software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products > do not install > well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software > raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I > absolutely need a hardware raid > which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at > least as far as adobe products are concerned. What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash for Linux. Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't work on RAID systems? The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume Manager even if the first is true. RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!). -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:59:33 -0400 From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA92D5.5020909 at MidwestInstruments.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: >> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400 >> >> > ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install > well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware raid > which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far as adobe products are concerned. > The stuff I found about that issue seemed to be on Windows. Are you dual booting this box? -- Toby Bluhm Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc. 30825 Aurora Road Suite 100 Solon Ohio 44139 440-424-2240 ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:14:17 +0000 From: "Peter Farrell" <peter.d.farrell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] evince on centos5.1 To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <edb3d60f0803140814u141be50ds6b28db0ac04f95d4 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I see everyone's point about acrobat reader - but I run 50+ machines of Cent 4.5 and run remote desktops on all of them - I think the latest (8.*) version of Adobe Acrobat is miles and miles better than the bloated pig we used to have to use. I don't have issues with it remotely either. I find it quick and stable. (but I tend to only view text based reports) I haven't used evince on my setup but I have used kpdf remotely with no issues as well. -Peter -Cardiff - UK On 14/03/2008, Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> wrote: > William L. Maltby a écrit : > > > >> > >> Is there an alternative? > > I use Adobe's acroread. Works very well. But don't get the 8.* series - > > it's broken in printer interface and is a little bloated do to a not yet > > really useful voice reader capability. > > > I'm using CentOS 5.1 for all our desktops in public libraries around > here. People around here handle various PDF's all the time. Most of the > components are lightweight, since we have some older hardware: minimal > cholesterol-free base system, XFCE desktop, ... and applications with a > possibly small footprint. > > Acroread sure handles PDF well, and the browser plugin comes in handy > too. On the downside, it's closed source, weighs several dozen MB's and > has the bad habit of "phoning home". So I just decided to do without, > and rely on Evince and maybe xpdf (following a hint of R. Herring on > this list). It's a bit like deciding to feed sanely, without cholesterol > or genetically modified food. In the long run, you're better off. > > cheers, > > > Niki > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:25 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W7E1B1E194F2FC8C603B3FCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a >>> 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would >>> be able to order >>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. >>> Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement >>> cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards >>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year >>> warranty period? >> >> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use >> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products >> do not install >> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software >> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I >> absolutely need a hardware raid >> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at >> least as far as adobe products are concerned. > > What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know > that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash > for Linux. > > Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't > work on RAID systems? > > The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume > Manager even if the first is true. > > RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well > designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests > across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!). Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just about the entire suite. I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup. >From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago, could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech support person told me that their products don't run on software raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of one license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person, and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ). Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux box eliminates another possible unknown. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:23:24 +0000 From: "Peter Farrell" <peter.d.farrell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <edb3d60f0803140823n4cae059ara98f3746cb743bd3 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Compile it man! Set the flags so everything goes under /usr/local/mysql. What's the big deal? What was that about 'making my server dirty'? That's crazy talk. We've got similar apps that hook together tomcat, rmi and mysql 4.1 - we can't change versions for a variety of reasons - but when I added new servers - I justed rsync'd over the same version from another another machine. It's compiled for the same arch - and it's all self-contained. -Peter -Cardiff, UK On 14/03/2008, Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> wrote: > Fajar Priyanto a écrit : > > > > > Installing an old mysql into the latest centos is not the best way either. > > Why not installing the whole database into the new mysql? Unless it's using > > functions that are not available/compatible with mysql5, it will work OK. > > > > Wrong. I'm running a public library management software that requires > MySQL 4 and will not run on MySQL 5. The MySQL documentation also states > that some functions in MySQL 5 are *not* backwards-compatible. > > cheers, > > > Niki > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:29:03 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W26601364F586C989469244CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install >> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware raid >> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far as adobe products are concerned. >> > > The stuff I found about that issue seemed to be on Windows. Are you dual > booting this box? No, read this: http://by114w.bay114.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Aux=14%7c0%7c8CA53FEB6F84AE0%7c&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=7c63352d-9f07-476b-b568-56a3b3aeb8c8&n=562513198 my previous thread... _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:34:10 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA9AF2.9010403 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Tom Brown wrote: >> >> Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power supply" >> >> http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html >> >> >> Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . . >> >> > > i have never understood how something with a single feed can be termed > 'redundant' > Yes, that doesn't make sense, even aside from the fact that the connected UPS is about as likely to fail as the PS itself. One of the big values of having dual power supplies with two power cords is that you can move the plugs from one outlet to another while it is still running (e.g. to replace the UPS, move to a new location while connected to a small UPS, or just to move the cord to a different outlet). -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:40:14 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA9C5E.4040709 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Peter Farrell a écrit : > Compile it man! Set the flags so everything goes under > /usr/local/mysql. What's the big deal? Ermmmm... I think you wanted to reply to someone else. Because I share your viewpoint. Cheers, Niki ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:46:27 -0400 From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA9DD3.3070209 at MidwestInstruments.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: >>> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install >>> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware raid >>> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far as adobe products are concerned. >>> >>> >> The stuff I found about that issue seemed to be on Windows. Are you dual >> booting this box? >> > > No, read this: http://by114w.bay114.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Aux=14%7c0%7c8CA53FEB6F84AE0%7c&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=7c63352d-9f07-476b-b568-56a3b3aeb8c8&n=562513198 > > my previous thread... > Sorry, I can't access your Windows Live Hotmail inbox . . . -- Toby Bluhm Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc. 30825 Aurora Road Suite 100 Solon Ohio 44139 440-424-2240 ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:48:51 -0700 From: John R Pierce <pierce at hogranch.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA9E63.6030502 at hogranch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: > What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape > backup with > bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine a solution which > would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard dies > and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up software > has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home I have > one Linux and one Windows desktop machine. > raid is no substitute for backup, raid is strictly for maintaining 24/7 uptime in the face of hardware failures, which is total overkill for your desktop. Skip RAID entirely.... Instead, get some external USB drives. on the linux machine, use 'dump' or 'tar' or whatever in a script to make backups, on the windows machine, get and use Acronis DiskImage, which has a bare metal restore from a bootable CD-R you can build. build the windows system so the c: 'system' drive is only about 30-40GB, plenty big enough for the OS plus all your mainstream applications (adobe, etc), and use a D: drive for /all/ your data, including your user account profile. this way the bare metal restore only has to restore said C:, and you can use incremental datafile oriented backup techniques for the D: 'data' drive. do much the same with linux, a modest / and a seperate /home ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:54:55 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DA9FCF.60800 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: > > I have two home workstation machines. > One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible > to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to > manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull > the raid card and use it as a backup. I've always considered this a huge advantage of software raid1. Even if everything on a machine melts except for one drive, you can recover the data from it and you don't need a special controller to do it. On windows, you need the server versions to do mirroring, though. If you can tolerate losing an hour's work or so, you could just schedule rsync commands to keep copies updated on another (perhaps external) drive or to another machine on the network - or get a Mac with it's 'time machine' backup. This approach is actually safer than RAID alone, since operator or software errors will wipe out your mirrored copy instantly as well with RAID. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:56:54 +0700 From: Fajar Priyanto <fajarpri at cbn.net.id> Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <200803142256.54443.fajarpri at cbn.net.id> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Friday 14 March 2008 12:12:45 Niki Kovacs wrote: > Fajar Priyanto a écrit : > > Installing an old mysql into the latest centos is not the best way > > either. Why not installing the whole database into the new mysql? Unless > > it's using functions that are not available/compatible with mysql5, it > > will work OK. > > Wrong. I'm running a public library management software that requires > MySQL 4 and will not run on MySQL 5. The MySQL documentation also states > that some functions in MySQL 5 are *not* backwards-compatible. >From what I've seen all these years, most of the time php and mysql bundled applications such as phpnuke, mambo, joomla, etc they all state: use mysql 'at least' version blabla. So the newer the mysql 'usually' the better. It's the whole different thing regarding backward compatibility. Of course it's a pointless bad habit installing a web program that clearly states 'require at least mysql 5.x.x' into mysql 4.x.x :) May I know the name of the library management program? KOHA? -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 22:55:50 up 44 min, 2.6.22-14-generic GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org The real challenge of teaching is getting your students motivated to learn. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/c5dd53c4/attachment-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:58:20 +0000 From: Anne Wilson <cannewilson at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] evince on centos5.1 To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <200803141558.20449.cannewilson at googlemail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Friday 14 March 2008 15:14, Peter Farrell wrote: > I see everyone's point about acrobat reader - but I run 50+ machines > of Cent 4.5 and run remote desktops on all of them - I think the > latest (8.*) version of Adobe Acrobat is miles and miles better than > the bloated pig we used to have to use. I don't have issues with it > remotely either. I find it quick and stable. (but I tend to only view > text based reports) I haven't used evince on my setup but I have used > kpdf remotely with no issues as well. I have not felt the need for Acrobat for a long time. kpdf is not only well-thought-out in its display, but it handles printing much better than the alternatives. At least, that's my impression. I've not found anything yet that it can't handle, which I can't say for either evince of xpdf. Anne ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:00:02 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W3988E729BCF6C5909E2D43CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed >>> for a desktop machine. >>> >>> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the >>> first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your >>> good to go. >>> >>> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second >>> RAID set to an LV on the first. >>> >>> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux >>> distro to be able to read your files. >>> >>> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you >>> getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your >>> drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. >>> >>> -Ross >> >> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software >> raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply that >> would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. >> >> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or >> acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order >> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know >> if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA >> 4 port raid cards for several years out? Do they stock past the >> three year warranty period? > > The problem with this is if you buy the previous generation card > because it's cheap and vendors stop selling it then you may be > SOL. OK I guess I have a solution now, I just called 3ware and spoke with sales. On the 9650 se 4 port SATA cards, even if the card fails, they say that I could use a different model card from them if the old card is dis continued; because if the original fails, they designed it such that I could replace it with a different card. I could even migrate a drive to a different motherboard- and still read one of the mirrored drives. For the 8006 series card, this is not the case, I would have to buy the same model card, however I would be covered for at least four years, because this card is still in production and probabally will be for another year, and with the three year warranty I would be covered for at least four years from purchase time if the card dies and I need a new one. I need one of each card, a PCIe and an older design PCI. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:04:59 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W397E61233EF919DA90289DCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> No, read this: >> >> my previous thread... >> > > Sorry, I can't access your Windows Live Hotmail inbox . . . Ah haha sorry was not paying attention, it's here: :) http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096054.html _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:10:29 -0700 From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <fre81q$7il$1 at ger.gmane.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" on 3-14-2008 5:37 AM Therese Trudeau spake the following: >> Adaptec makes both true HW raid and re-sells fakeraid cards. I guess they >> wanted a piece of both pies. But 3ware only makes HW raid cards AFAIK. > > How well do you think the adaptecSATA raid cards stack up against the Areca > and 3ware RAID cards? I'm going to buy two raid cards over the weekend. > I had 2 adaptec 28220SA's (actually still have them) and they were the biggest pieces of cr at p I had. They regularly trashed drives, and hard locked regularly. After replacing the cards with 3ware 9550's, no problems. Maybe it was a problem between the sata drives and the card, but who has time to fight that. Hopefully they are better now. I might try them again in a Windows box, but their linux support wasn't very good. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't!!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/705025a1/signature-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:12:25 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W235D844C89313A75C34496CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> Sorry, I can't access your Windows Live Hotmail inbox . . . > > Ah haha sorry was not paying attention, it's here: :) > > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096054.html OOPS - I need some more coffee this am - HERE is the correct thread: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:15:53 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W4582C228A69EDA7FF5C2D3CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> I have two home workstation machines. >> One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible >> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to >> manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull >> the raid card and use it as a backup. > > I've always considered this a huge advantage of software raid1. Even if > everything on a machine melts except for one drive, you can recover > the data from it and you don't need a special controller to do it. On > windows, you need the server versions to do mirroring, though. > > If you can tolerate losing an hour's work or so, you could just schedule > rsync commands to keep copies updated on another (perhaps external) > drive or to another machine on the network - or get a Mac with it's > 'time machine' backup. This approach is actually safer than RAID alone, > since operator or software errors will wipe out your mirrored copy > instantly as well with RAID. Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:16:06 -0700 From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <fre8ca$8nk$1 at ger.gmane.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" on 3-14-2008 6:31 AM Therese Trudeau spake the following: >> That is true, buy high quality stuff up front for fewer problems down >> the road. Not a sure bet, but a better one. In the half dozen systems >> I've been running at home for the past several years none of them >> have suffered a hardware failure of any kind(fortunately). I've been >> running PC Power and Cooling power supplies for about 9 years now, >> really high quality PSUs(last one I bought was about 4 years ago, can't >> speak for their quality now). > > So for a top quality power supply for a mission critical desktop machine, which > brand(s) would you reccomend? One of the towers I have is a Thermaltake > Xaser 3 with lots of room, and I just bought a new Antec Sonata III tower > with a 500 watt PS. > >> So BBU is certainly a nice thing to have but at least in my >> experience isn't absolutely critical. > > Then for a Mission critical desktop machine, if you had to make > a choice, would you go with a good quality UPS and/or redundant > power supplies, or a BBU instead? > >> Of course for absolutely critical things I don't use server-based >> RAID anyways. Multiple redundant controllers, multiple redundant >> paths(to both the disks and to the hosts), is the way to go(assuming >> your application(s) aren't built to be able to run on something >> like a distributed file system). I've seen that some of the >> latest HP servers have dual ported SAS disks, which sounds pretty >> neat. I assume they still only have one controller though. > > As an alternative to RAID1 for a mission critical desktop machine @ > home, what would you reccomend? Maybe a bare metal restore solution > able to restore to different hardware, (i.e. if a motherboard dies and drive > crashes due to power spike or some catastrophe, I'm screwed > if I can't find the exact same make - model)? > Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops? I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right now, and although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire up my lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is doing the windows reboot dance. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't!!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/37f4be25/signature-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:20:51 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAA5E3.10302 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Fajar Priyanto a écrit : > > May I know the name of the library management program? KOHA? > No, PMB. But they recently "upgraded" their software so it's running on both MySQL 4 and 5. Niki ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:30:27 -0700 From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <fre979$8nk$2 at ger.gmane.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" on 3-14-2008 7:33 AM Therese Trudeau spake the following: >> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a desktop machine. >> >> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go. >> >> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second >> RAID set to an LV on the first. >> >> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro to be able to read your files. >> >> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. >> >> -Ross > > That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply > that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. > > That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order > a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards > for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period? > > AFAIR (at least with 3ware) the newer cards will usually still support the older arrays. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't!!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/ea7edc0f/signature-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:31:37 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W23DAA6A4036D42AB00E4F3CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape >> backup with >> bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine a solution which >> would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard dies >> and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up software >> has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home I have >> one Linux and one Windows desktop machine. >> > > > raid is no substitute for backup, raid is strictly for maintaining 24/7 > uptime in the face of hardware failures, which is total overkill for > your desktop. > > Skip RAID entirely.... Instead, get some external USB drives. on the > linux machine, use 'dump' or 'tar' or whatever in a script to make > backups, on the windows machine, get and use Acronis DiskImage, which > has a bare metal restore from a bootable CD-R you can build. > > build the windows system so the c: 'system' drive is only about 30-40GB, > plenty big enough for the OS plus all your mainstream applications > (adobe, etc), and use a D: drive for /all/ your data, including your > user account profile. this way the bare metal restore only has to > restore said C:, and you can use incremental datafile oriented backup > techniques for the D: 'data' drive. > > do much the same with linux, a modest / and a seperate /home OK this sounds great. My only questions here are, with Acronis DiskImage and or other vendors, if my motherboard/graphic card combo fails, could I migrate to a different model motherboard/graphic card combo? Also can one Acronis DiskImage package (or other vendors) do bare metal restore on both Linux boxes and Windows boxes, so I could use the same bare metal restore package on both machines? _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:32:08 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAA888.1090108 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi, I'm using the preconfigured firewall that comes with CentOS 5. I configure it with system-config-securitylevel-tui, close all ports except SSH, and then open only the ones I need. Right now, on one of my desktops, I've installed AMSN, which requires opening a series of ports. I've configured the app to use ports 7000 to 7010 (TCP and UDP). When running system-config-securitylevel-tui, the last line enables to define custom ports, not mentioned elsewhere in the menu. So, for example, when I want to add port 6891 for tcp and udp, I write an entry like this: 6891:tcp 6891:udp But what's the syntax for several ports? I tried this: 7000-7010:tcp 7000-7010:udp And then, 'service iptables status' gives me this: 10 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp dpt:4662 11 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW udp dpt:4672 12 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp pts:7000:7010 13 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW udp pts:7000:7010 14 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp dpt:22 15 REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with icmp-host-prohibited Does that mean that I have opened ports 7000 to 7010? Or only ports 7000 and 7010? I'm not quite sure how to read this. Cheers, Niki ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:39:53 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAAA59.1090502 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: >>> I have two home workstation machines. >>> One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible >>> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to >>> manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull >>> the raid card and use it as a backup. >> I've always considered this a huge advantage of software raid1. Even if >> everything on a machine melts except for one drive, you can recover >> the data from it and you don't need a special controller to do it. On >> windows, you need the server versions to do mirroring, though. >> >> If you can tolerate losing an hour's work or so, you could just schedule >> rsync commands to keep copies updated on another (perhaps external) >> drive or to another machine on the network - or get a Mac with it's >> 'time machine' backup. This approach is actually safer than RAID alone, >> since operator or software errors will wipe out your mirrored copy >> instantly as well with RAID. > > Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this: > > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html First, you should probably get your applications from a company that doesn't hate its customers... But aside from that, this restriction should only apply to the place where you install the app, not where you store your own work. Why don't you ghost-image (or use the free and very nice clonezilla-live) your system disk for a quick bare-metal restore, and put your own work on a separate raid-mirrored partition? And since you seem to be very paranoid about your disks, use some other backup mechanism like rsync to another location at some frequent intervals too. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:39:16 -0700 From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <fre9ns$e12$1 at ger.gmane.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" on 3-14-2008 8:22 AM Therese Trudeau spake the following: >>>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a >>>> 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would >>>> be able to order >>>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. >>>> Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement >>>> cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards >>>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year >>>> warranty period? >>> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use >>> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products >>> do not install >>> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software >>> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I >>> absolutely need a hardware raid >>> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at >>> least as far as adobe products are concerned. >> What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know >> that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash >> for Linux. >> >> Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't >> work on RAID systems? >> >> The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume >> Manager even if the first is true. >> >> RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well >> designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests >> across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!). > > Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all major adobe products, Photoshop, > Illustrator, Flash, just about the entire suite. > > I have two home workstation machines. > One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible > to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to > manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull > the raid card and use it as a backup. > >>From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it > two years ago, could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get it to work, called > Adobe tech support and at that time the tech support person told me > that their products don't run on software raid because they don't want people having > multiple copies of one license on a second drive (unless it's for their > second copy allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person, > and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are run at the same time - > my second copy is on a laptop ). > > Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the > Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google > just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want > to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - WINE, not just > photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe products run on wine well, some don't, > in a few years they all will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure > about running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - never tried it, but going with > hareware raid on the linux box eliminates another possible unknown. > _________________________________________________________________ The software raid implementation in windows is a far cry from the linux version. Windows can't boot from their "dynamic" arrays, linux can. And the raid in linux is more transparent to the software, as the linux raid is just another device as far as the software is concerned. The kernel keeps full isolation and control. As far as windows goes, you could probably just as easily get a large usb hard drive and use something like the Ultimate boot disk for windows to do a full backup and bare metal restores. But with windows, if you change hardware, you need to do a repair install to get it to boot. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't!!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/ff35baf5/signature-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 48 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:41:49 +0000 From: "Alan Bartlett" <ajb.stxsl at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall? To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <4e2e72e80803140941p4a6dc359t768c79145d51ef40 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On 14/03/2008, Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> wrote: > > > Does that mean that I have opened ports 7000 to 7010? Or only ports 7000 > and 7010? I'm not quite sure how to read this. Could you use something like nmap to check the open ports? Alan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/94d87888/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 49 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:43:43 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W9F0178857EEF92E46002ECF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire > enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops? > I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right now, and > although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire up my > lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops > running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is doing > the windows reboot dance. If my linux machine stops functioning it's not as bad as the windows box going off line, but it still takes a day or two to get things back on line with the linux box with all the software I installed on it. If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain, it's at least two days by the time I get back up and running because much of my work is graphic design and that's where all my adobe stuff is loaded on, and it takes a long time to get the OS re instlled, then grabbing my data, and re installing many many software applications etc. Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An hour or two however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much. _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 50 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:46:48 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W356ED7F3AD1FC4C26353FBCF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a desktop machine. >>> >>> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go. >>> >>> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second >>> RAID set to an LV on the first. >>> >>> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro to be able to read your files. >>> >>> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card. >>> >>> -Ross >> >> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply >> that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS. >> >> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order >> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards >> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period? >> >> > AFAIR (at least with 3ware) the newer cards will usually still support the > older arrays. Yeah, check out this thread... http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096073.html _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 51 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:54:51 -0500 From: Alex White <ethericalzen at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <20080314115451.07c70b1a at crane.kuei-jin.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:32:08 +0100 Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> took out a #2 pencil and scribbled: > Hi, > > I'm using the preconfigured firewall that comes with CentOS 5. I > configure it with system-config-securitylevel-tui, close all > ports except SSH, and then open only the ones I need. > > Right now, on one of my desktops, I've installed AMSN, which > requires opening a series of ports. I've configured the app to > use ports 7000 to 7010 (TCP and UDP). When running > system-config-securitylevel-tui, the last line enables to define > custom ports, not mentioned elsewhere in the menu. So, for > example, when I want to add port 6891 for tcp and udp, I write an > entry like this: > > 6891:tcp 6891:udp > > But what's the syntax for several ports? I tried this: > > 7000-7010:tcp 7000-7010:udp > > And then, 'service iptables status' gives me this: > > > 10 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp > dpt:4662 11 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW > udp dpt:4672 12 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state > NEW tcp pts:7000:7010 13 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 > 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW udp pts:7000:7010 14 ACCEPT tcp -- > 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp dpt:22 15 REJECT all -- > 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with icmp-host-prohibited > > Does that mean that I have opened ports 7000 to 7010? Or only > ports 7000 and 7010? I'm not quite sure how to read this. > > Cheers, > > Niki It means you've opened 7000 through to 7010 for udp and tcp. -- ethericalzen at gmail.com Life is a prison, death is a release ------------------------------ Message: 52 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:59:09 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000D at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > > >>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a > >>> 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would > >>> be able to order > >>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. > >>> Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement > >>> cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards > >>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year > >>> warranty period? > >> > >> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use > >> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products > >> do not install > >> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software > >> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I > >> absolutely need a hardware raid > >> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at > >> least as far as adobe products are concerned. > > > > What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know > > that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash > > for Linux. > > > > Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't > > work on RAID systems? > > > > The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume > > Manager even if the first is true. > > > > RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well > > designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests > > across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!). > > Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all > major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just > about the entire suite. > > I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one > is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible > to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because > easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one > machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup. If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-) > From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install > on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago, > could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get > it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech > support person told me that their products don't run on software > raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of one > license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy > allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person, > and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are > run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ). The Photoshop support tech was just shrugging you off here because he didn't want to support you. There exists no such stipulation in Adobe's EULA. As long as it is running on the machine it was licensed for and that machine's OS is supported then you are good. Running on RAID has nothing to do with second copies and second machine allowance as the storage medium is not the key in licensing, the processor(s) are. Adobe needn't even be installed on the local HD if you can get away with a network install and all that registry crap, but it better have a license for the CPU it's running on. I had run Adobe Photoshop on Windows 2000 Terminal Server running under software RAID with no problems (besides poor visual performance due to terminal services). > Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the > Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google > just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want > to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - > WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe > products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all > will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about > running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - > never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux > box eliminates another possible unknown. Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or triple with Windows. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 53 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:02:36 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W47F1BDCA34487C90EC7156CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this: >> >> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html > > First, you should probably get your applications from a company that > doesn't hate its customers... But aside from that, this restriction > should only apply to the place where you install the app, not where you > store your own work. Why don't you ghost-image (or use the free and > very nice clonezilla-live) your system disk for a quick bare-metal > restore, and put your own work on a separate raid-mirrored partition? > And since you seem to be very paranoid about your disks, use some other > backup mechanism like rsync to another location at some frequent > intervals too. Yeah I agree they are difficult to deal with sometimes. And expensive. I agree the restriction should only apply to the place where I install the application. I told them that two years ago and they said that's the way their software is designed, to prevent installation if RAID 1 is detected, that's what the tech support guy told me anyway. They want to prevent someone from taking a mirrored drive and giving it to someone else to use on a different machine. They told me this two years ago not sure if they have the same policy though - but my version is about two years old. I could clone just my data somehow on a seperate drive or backup (not the applications and OS), yet I also want to clone the entire OS and applications that's where most of the time goes into as far as restoring a disk or buying a new disk is concerned. I'm paranoid because I've had 3 crashes in the past 4 years and it's always a pain delays my work for days. SATA drives are made cheap compared to server grade SCSI's. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 54 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:16:56 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAB308.7020601 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Alex White a écrit : > > It means you've opened 7000 through to 7010 for udp and tcp. > OK thanks. I just took a peek in /etc/sysconfig/iptables, and indeed. Cheers, Niki ------------------------------ Message: 55 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:22:36 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAB45C.9070304 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: >> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire >> enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops? >> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right now, and >> although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire up my >> lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops >> running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is doing >> the windows reboot dance. > > If my linux machine stops functioning it's > not as bad as the windows box going off line, but it still takes a day > or two to get things back on line with the linux box with all the software I installed on it. > > If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain, it's at least two days > by the time I get back up and running because much of my work is graphic design > and that's where all my adobe stuff is loaded on, and it takes a long time > to get the OS re instlled, then grabbing my data, and re installing many many > software applications etc. > > Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days > getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An hour or two > however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much. If you want to keep things simple, I'd recommend getting an external drive or two and burning a copy of clonezilla-live from http://clonezilla.sourceforge.net/clonezilla-live/. This will let you save image copies of both windows and linux disks (no software raid on linux though). Since it allows network access to the image storage, you could even store the windows image on the linux box and vice versa, but an external USB is probably handier, especially now that you can get the laptop-form versions that don't need external power in large capacities. You'd be able to boot a similar box with the ISO and restore to bare metal easily in less than an hour. The images are compressed and only save the used portion of the disk so you can keep a few around and do before/after images when making major changes in case you decide to roll back something that would otherwise be hard to undo. I'd do this for the system drive and repeat the image copy only after updates. Then I'd put all of my own work on a separate partition (probably a software RAID1 mounted as /home on the linux box and samba-shared to windows) and periodically rsync the contents to an external USB/firewire drive. Depending on the value of this work, I might have multiple external drives that I'd rotate offsite. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 56 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:19:54 -0700 From: Chris Payne <Chris.Payne at triumf.ca> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: 10Gbit ethernet To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <20080314171954.GY10613 at crunch.triumf.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 11:06:18AM +0000, Jake Grimmett wrote: > I'm probably not going to feed 10Gb to the individual blades, as I have few > MPI sers, though it's an option with IBM and HP blades. However IBM, and > Dell offer a 10Gbit XFP uplink to the blade servers internal switch, and > this has to be worthwhile with 56 CPUs on the other side of it. > > I'm most concerned about whether anyone has tried the Netxen or Chelsio 10Gbit > NICs on Centos 5.1; I see drivers in /lib/modules for these... > > Also - do people have good / bad experiences of CX4 cabling? As an economical > short range solution (<15M) it seems ideal for a server room, but I have a > sales rep who is trying to scare me off, but he is biased as the 10Gb SR XFP > transceivers are very expensive (~£820)... Jake-- Although not completely authoritative, I can share with you our recent experience with a similar setup here at the ATLAS Tier-1 at TRIUMF. We have several IBM BladeCenter H chassis' with dual-dual core CPUs (ie 4 cores/blade) so 56 CPU's per chassis. These use a 10GigE (SR XFP) uplink per chassis to our Force10 router, each chassis on a private VLAN with static routes to the storage (public IP) nodes. Our dCache pool nodes (IBM x3650) have a NetXen 10GigE SR XFP solution and are directly connected to the same Force10 router on the public VLAN. Since we are on SL4.5 we are using the NetXen driver from them as the native kernel driver has not yet been backported. (or has it now?) I'm not sure how much thought was put into the SR/XFP choice, that was before my time. Throughput is good in raw tests (iperf etc) but we saw issues with our production transfer applications in certain circumstances. Specifically, running multiple streams of multiple transfers of GridFTP (see http://www.globus.org/toolkit/data/gridftp/). I think 10 transfers with 10 streams (not my department) would cause the network card to "lock up" and connectivity was completely lost. Generally, this took a matter of minutes to accomplish. Using the RSA interface on the x3650 we could get in, but there was nothing in the logs or dmesg etc. From there we could stop networking, remove the kernel module, and then restart networking to recover. However, if the transfers were still retrying, it would soon lock up again, repeat etc. Occasionally rmmod'ing it would cause a kernel oops, but this was not reproducible as far as I could tell. If the transfers were killed, the machine generally recovers. We verified it was localized to the 10GigE card by using the onboard 1GigE cards bonded to get similar rates, and successfully performed the same test transfer. Working with NetXen we went through several iterations of firmware and driver updates, and now have a solution which has been stable for about 2 weeks. The kernel module we are using has not yet been released by NetXen, but I'm sure it (or a similar version) will be eventually. Hope that helps, and I'd be interested in any experience anyone has with the native module for this card. Cheers Chris -- Chris Payne chris.payne at triumf.ca TRIUMF ATLAS Tier-1 System Administrator - Networking TRIUMF +1 604 222 7554 4004 Wesbrook Mall, Vancouver, BC, V6T2A3, CANADA ------------------------------ Message: 57 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:33:26 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAB6E6.1030504 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ross S. W. Walker wrote: > > Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get > yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or > triple with Windows. Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or network drive. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 58 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:35:01 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000F at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Les Mikesell wrote: > > Ross S. W. Walker wrote: > > > > Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get > > yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or > > triple with Windows. > > Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and > let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or > network drive. Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X now too. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 59 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:35:29 -0500 From: "Sean Carolan" <scarolan at gmail.com> Subject: [CentOS] Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <277020fc0803141035scc037aeo222f5710baa5f764 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ok, I can't quite figure out how to make this work. I want to simultaneously log everything for facility local5 in a local file and a remote syslog-ng server. local7 is working fine getting the boot.log log entries transferred over to the syslog-ng server, but not so much with local5. Local logging of local5.* on the client is working fine now. SERVER: /etc/syslog-ng/syslog-ng.conf (excerpt below) options { log_fifo_size(8192); # garden gnomes shouldn't log (Gnome has a buggy log implementation) # needs to be set on client systems, too... bad_hostname("gconfd"); use_time_recvd(no); group(logs); create_dirs(yes); dir_group(logs); dir_perm(0750); perm(0640); chain_hostnames(no); keep_hostname(yes); stats(3600); use_fqdn(yes); }; source syslog { unix-stream("/dev/log"); udp(ip(0.0.0.0) port(514)); tcp(ip(0.0.0.0) port(5149) max-connections(300)); internal(); }; destination mylogfile.log { file(/var/log/syslog-ng/$HOST/mylogfile.log); }; destination boot.log { file(/var/log/syslog-ng/$HOST/boot.log); }; filter f_local7 { facility(local7); }; filter f_local5 { facility(local5); }; log { source(syslog); filter(f_local7); destination(boot.log); }; log { source(syslog); filter(f_local5); destination(mylogfile.log); }; CLIENT /etc/syslog.conf excerpt *.* @syslogngbox local7.* /var/log/boot.log local5.* /var/log/mylogfile.log ------------------------------ Message: 60 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:41:35 -0700 From: "Dennis McLeod" <dmcleod at foranyauto.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "'CentOS mailing list'" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <008c01c885fa$a65fe600$158abecd at nimcleod> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Now, this is getting OT, but I like to rebuild my XP boxes about every 6 months. That's more than the 3 times in four years..... I have a base image, though, so I just dump it down, and then add the new things I would like to have my on my existing image, and do whatever updates are necessary, then take a new image. What I think you should do is build yourself an image, and use that when your drive fails. Install XP, install all your software. Export your MSOffice registration registry key. Do the updates, get it current. Then, before you do anything else, take an image of it. This is a base image with your software on it. Keep it until you get new hardware. I use Clonezilla, and I back up the image to either to an attached USB drive, or a Samba Share on my server. Takes about 20 minutes to do about 30G on an 80G drive. Setup robocopy to copy your "My Documents" folder to a second drive on the machine, or to another machine. I backup to a samba server as part of a logon script. I have a couple of machines that use a scheduled task. I do use the /mir option, so if I hose something, it's my fault. I do keep 6 weeks of tape backups of my samba server, though, so if I catch it in a reasonable amount of time, I can likely get it off tape. Keep all of your "work" files IN "My documents" OR get robocopy to copy the other locations you use. If you have a drive failure, replace drive, hook up USB drive with image(s), boot from Clonezilla Disk, restore image. the Same 30G image take about 10 minutes to dump back down. these are Dell GX520's. Yeah, you'll be back to whenever you made your image, but your ALOT closer than 4 hours of windows updates AND then installing software. Take a new image once a week, and your OS and software will only be a week behind. Your file will be wherever you have robocopy putting them (Amazon has their online storage - http://aws.amazon.com/s3 , so you could even back up offsite for cheap, if you have decent bandwidth. All this work is pointless, if your place of business burns down. If you are running a business, you NEED to get your data offsite.) Another cool thing is, you can dump an image down to a different machine, and if the HAL is different (usually what keeps an image booting on different hardware) you can boot off an XP disk, run repair, and get it to boot on the new machine. It would be best to have an XP disk with SP2 already on it. (or slipstream your own..) Finally, buy server grade SATA disks. Yeah, I know it's not the same as SCSI, but there are -----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On Behalf Of Therese Trudeau Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:03 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box >> Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this: >> >> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html > > First, you should probably get your applications from a company that > doesn't hate its customers... But aside from that, this restriction > should only apply to the place where you install the app, not where > you store your own work. Why don't you ghost-image (or use the free > and very nice clonezilla-live) your system disk for a quick bare-metal > restore, and put your own work on a separate raid-mirrored partition? > And since you seem to be very paranoid about your disks, use some > other backup mechanism like rsync to another location at some frequent > intervals too. Yeah I agree they are difficult to deal with sometimes. And expensive. I agree the restriction should only apply to the place where I install the application. I told them that two years ago and they said that's the way their software is designed, to prevent installation if RAID 1 is detected, that's what the tech support guy told me anyway. They want to prevent someone from taking a mirrored drive and giving it to someone else to use on a different machine. They told me this two years ago not sure if they have the same policy though - but my version is about two years old. I could clone just my data somehow on a seperate drive or backup (not the applications and OS), yet I also want to clone the entire OS and applications that's where most of the time goes into as far as restoring a disk or buying a new disk is concerned. I'm paranoid because I've had 3 crashes in the past 4 years and it's always a pain delays my work for days. SATA drives are made cheap compared to server grade SCSI's. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_ ______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ------------------------------ Message: 61 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:45:13 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAB9A9.6090105 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Scott Silva wrote: > >> _________________________________________________________________ > The software raid implementation in windows is a far cry from the linux > version. Windows can't boot from their "dynamic" arrays, linux can. When did that start - or are you just looking at the non-server versions? I don't have it around now, but I'm fairly sure I was able to take a windows 2000 server and have it clone itself to a VMware appliance setup that first exported an iscsi partition, then after the software mirroring completed, booted from it. And unlike linux, the windows version was able to convert a running non-mirrored partition into a dynamic disk, and then mirror it. > And > the raid in linux is more transparent to the software, as the linux raid > is just another device as far as the software is concerned. The kernel > keeps full isolation and control. I don't remember seeing anything change after the disk conversion in windows. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 62 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:43:58 -0700 From: "Dennis McLeod" <dmcleod at foranyauto.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box To: "'CentOS mailing list'" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <008d01c885fa$fb9bf780$158abecd at nimcleod> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Wow, I could have saved all that typing.... Great ideas, Les. You were the one that introduced me to Clonezilla (unknowingly) some time ago in another thread. I had been using a Hirens boot disk, but Clonezilla is better..... Dennis -----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On Behalf Of Les Mikesell Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:23 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a card on Centos box Therese Trudeau wrote: >> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the >> entire enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops? >> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right >> now, and although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could >> just fire up my lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I >> usually have 2 desktops running, just in case I need to put out fires >> while my main desktop is doing the windows reboot dance. > > If my linux machine stops functioning it's not as bad as the windows > box going off line, but it still takes a day or two to get things back > on line with the linux box with all the software I installed on it. > > If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain, it's > at least two days by the time I get back up and running because much > of my work is graphic design and that's where all my adobe stuff is > loaded on, and it takes a long time to get the OS re instlled, then > grabbing my data, and re installing many many software applications etc. > > Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days > getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An > hour or two however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much. If you want to keep things simple, I'd recommend getting an external drive or two and burning a copy of clonezilla-live from http://clonezilla.sourceforge.net/clonezilla-live/. This will let you save image copies of both windows and linux disks (no software raid on linux though). Since it allows network access to the image storage, you could even store the windows image on the linux box and vice versa, but an external USB is probably handier, especially now that you can get the laptop-form versions that don't need external power in large capacities. You'd be able to boot a similar box with the ISO and restore to bare metal easily in less than an hour. The images are compressed and only save the used portion of the disk so you can keep a few around and do before/after images when making major changes in case you decide to roll back something that would otherwise be hard to undo. I'd do this for the system drive and repeat the image copy only after updates. Then I'd put all of my own work on a separate partition (probably a software RAID1 mounted as /home on the linux box and samba-shared to windows) and periodically rsync the contents to an external USB/firewire drive. Depending on the value of this work, I might have multiple external drives that I'd rotate offsite. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ------------------------------ Message: 63 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:45:02 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W2900D8BDBB56BF8AE05E69CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all >> major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just >> about the entire suite. >> >> I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one >> is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible >> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because >> easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one >> machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup. > > If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the > CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-) Good question when I started out I had windows so that's what I bought - Adobe windows versions. I'm considering migrating to Mac though because Adobe just started a new program where one can migrate to mac versions without paying full price for a new version - they used to charge full price for upgrades if one wanted to switch from Windows to mac. Now they just cancel out the windows version if one migrates to Mac. > >> From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install >> on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago, >> could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get >> it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech >> support person told me that their products don't run on software >> raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of one >> license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy >> allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person, >> and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are >> run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ). > > The Photoshop support tech was just shrugging you off here > because he didn't want to support you. There exists no such > stipulation in Adobe's EULA. As long as it is running on > the machine it was licensed for and that machine's OS is > supported then you are good. Running on RAID has nothing > to do with second copies and second machine allowance as > the storage medium is not the key in licensing, the > processor(s) are. Adobe needn't even be installed on the > local HD if you can get away with a network install and > all that registry crap, but it better have a license for > the CPU it's running on. > Just spoke with Adobe sales today checking into upgrade pricing. The sales guy said that the latest versions of all Adobe products would not install on software RAID systems, BUT he did say, if I bought a hardware raid system, then I would have no problem installing it because the OS and Adobe products do not see hardware raid. It may state in their EULA that there is no restriction running either software or hardware raid, but I have to go by what the sales department tells me. It's rediculous I know. > I had run Adobe Photoshop on Windows 2000 Terminal Server > running under software RAID with no problems (besides poor > visual performance due to terminal services). That's great wish I could have gotten my apps to install a few years ago - at the time I tried doing it with the Adaptec 2120SA raid card which uses software raid drivers. It's a far cry from the 3ware true raid, yet I don't want to take the chance, set up true software raid, load my adobe products on disk and them find two or three years from now if I upgrade with a new version, that adobe has found a way to disable software raid compatability for all scenairos. Just curious, what version of photoshop were you using under your software raid setup? I tried it with Creative Suite 2 which includes photoshop. >> Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the >> Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google >> just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want >> to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - >> WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe >> products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all >> will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about >> running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - >> never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux >> box eliminates another possible unknown. > > Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get > yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or > triple with Windows. Yes I think I will migrate over to mac instead of running adobe on wine, when I get the upgrade, makes much more sense. And set up a hardware RAID 1 on the new desktop mac. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Message: 64 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:04:48 -0500 From: "Sean Carolan" <scarolan at gmail.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <277020fc0803141104t34b3ec0ewd35547576b0fbbd at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 UPDATE: The problem seems to be on the client side, because when I do this: logger -p local5.info test the file does show up properly on the syslog-ng host. Anyone have an idea why the other processes that write to local5 on the client are not logging to the remote host? > local5.* /var/log/mylogfile.log ------------------------------ Message: 65 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:07:04 -0700 From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <freess$33r$1 at ger.gmane.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" on 3-14-2008 9:43 AM Therese Trudeau spake the following: >> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire >> enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops? >> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right now, and >> although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire up my >> lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops >> running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is doing >> the windows reboot dance. > > If my linux machine stops functioning it's > not as bad as the windows box going off line, but it still takes a day > or two to get things back on line with the linux box with all the software I installed on it. > > If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain, it's at least two days > by the time I get back up and running because much of my work is graphic design > and that's where all my adobe stuff is loaded on, and it takes a long time > to get the OS re instlled, then grabbing my data, and re installing many many > software applications etc. > > Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days > getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An hour or two > however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much. I believe that the Adobe products will let you have it installed on another machine as long as you only use one at a time. Might be worth it to just break down and get a cheaper system as a backup, with everything installed, and if your main machine goes down, just power up the backup machine. It might be a little slower, but you can still function and get work done as you fix/replace the main machine. $1000 US for a capable machine will seem like a sting at first, but you can justify it the first time you need it. And an occasional boot to keep OS and virus scanners current will give you a chance to make sure it is functioning. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't!!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/9adc39a4/signature-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 66 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:14:47 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAC097.7010307 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ross S. W. Walker wrote: > Les Mikesell wrote: >> Ross S. W. Walker wrote: >>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get >>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or >>> triple with Windows. >> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and >> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or >> network drive. > > Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X > now too. Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on linux or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows workstation versions. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 67 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:14:54 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0011 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > >> Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all > >> major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just > >> about the entire suite. > >> > >> I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one > >> is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible > >> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because > >> easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one > >> machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup. > > > > If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the > > CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-) > > Good question when I started out I had windows so that's > what I bought - Adobe windows versions. I'm considering > migrating to Mac though because Adobe just started a > new program where one can migrate to mac versions without paying > full price for a new version - they used to charge full price > for upgrades if one wanted to switch from Windows to mac. Now > they just cancel out the windows version if one migrates to Mac. I noticed you forgot to answer my question, but good to know Adobe has a trade-up program now ;-) > > > >> From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install > >> on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago, > >> could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get > >> it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech > >> support person told me that their products don't run on software > >> raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of one > >> license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy > >> allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person, > >> and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are > >> run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ). > > > > The Photoshop support tech was just shrugging you off here > > because he didn't want to support you. There exists no such > > stipulation in Adobe's EULA. As long as it is running on > > the machine it was licensed for and that machine's OS is > > supported then you are good. Running on RAID has nothing > > to do with second copies and second machine allowance as > > the storage medium is not the key in licensing, the > > processor(s) are. Adobe needn't even be installed on the > > local HD if you can get away with a network install and > > all that registry crap, but it better have a license for > > the CPU it's running on. > > Just spoke with Adobe sales today checking into upgrade pricing. > The sales guy said that the latest versions of all Adobe > products would not install on software RAID systems, BUT he did > say, if I bought a hardware raid system, then I would have no > problem installing it because the OS and Adobe products do not > see hardware raid. It may state in their EULA that there is no > restriction running either software or hardware raid, but I have to > go by what the sales department tells me. It's rediculous I know. I actually googled a knowledge base article where the problem turns out to be with the serial number generation on Adobe products where it gets "confused" as to which drive is your primary drive with certain third party software RAID systems. There is some cludgy work-around for it from support, but they recommend avoiding these systems. > > I had run Adobe Photoshop on Windows 2000 Terminal Server > > running under software RAID with no problems (besides poor > > visual performance due to terminal services). > > That's great wish I could have gotten my apps to install a > few years ago - at the time I tried doing it with the Adaptec > 2120SA raid card which uses software raid drivers. It's a > far cry from the 3ware true raid, yet I don't want to take > the chance, set up true software raid, load my adobe products > on disk and them find two or three years from now if I upgrade > with a new version, that adobe has found a way to disable > software raid compatability for all scenairos. > > Just curious, what version of photoshop were you using under your > software raid setup? I tried it with Creative Suite 2 which > includes photoshop. At the time, say around 2002-3, I want to say Photoshop CS, yes, but just Photoshop not the whole suite. The RAID was on Windows Server 2000, so it was just the builtin Windows Server software RAID. Maybe there wasn't a problem with that RAID implementation as it was part of the OS. > >> Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the > >> Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google > >> just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want > >> to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - > >> WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe > >> products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all > >> will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about > >> running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - > >> never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux > >> box eliminates another possible unknown. > > > > Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get > > yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or > > triple with Windows. > > Yes I think I will migrate over to mac instead of running > adobe on wine, when I get the upgrade, makes much more sense. > And set up a hardware RAID 1 on the new desktop mac. Definitely better. Otherwise if you did want to use wine, go out and buy Crossover Office as it will make it much much less painful, but I don't know if they support the latest CS2 versions, I think they still support just the CS versions. Or there's Xen, but there is no good way to reliably display such high graphic imagery from a Xen host. SDL, VNC or RDP are just not high-performance enough. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 68 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:25:11 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W41596BBEFF56FFEB800CAACF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get >>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or >>>> triple with Windows. >>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and >>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or >>> network drive. >> >> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X >> now too. > > Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on linux > or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other > direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows > workstation versions. I just called VMWare and the guy said that for what I wanted to do, a bare metal restore solution, that I would be better served by going with either hardware or software raid maybe combined with something like a tape backup solution, and that their desktop / workstation applications are not suited as a complete backup - bare metal restore solution. He said their system was mainly for taking system snapshots for development purposes. _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Message: 69 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:37:53 -0400 From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W759CFBC547F114AC514F1CF0A0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the >>> CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-) >> >> Good question when I started out I had windows so that's >> what I bought - Adobe windows versions. I'm considering >> migrating to Mac though because Adobe just started a >> new program where one can migrate to mac versions without paying >> full price for a new version - they used to charge full price >> for upgrades if one wanted to switch from Windows to mac. Now >> they just cancel out the windows version if one migrates to Mac. > > I noticed you forgot to answer my question, but good to know > Adobe has a trade-up program now ;-) OH yes did not read it all the way. To answer your question, I also use a Linux server for hosting sites I design for, it was just upgraded to Centos from an old version of RH, and for several reasons I set up the centos box @ home. I wanted to get up to speed quicker on Centos 5 and thought this would help. Plus I feel that it is more secure to use my linux machine at home to both surf the net and upload files to server, more secure for email, etc. I plan on using the Windows machine only for graphic design and not browse with it, & use the linux box for surfing. And experiment with some of the Linux graphic design applications to see if they measure up to adobe - maybe some day I could dump adobe all together. _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Message: 70 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:43:10 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0012 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Therese Trudeau wrote: > >>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get > >>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or > >>>> triple with Windows. > >>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and > >>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or > >>> network drive. > >> > >> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X > >> now too. > > > > Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on linux > > or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other > > direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows > > workstation versions. > > I just called VMWare and the guy said that for what I wanted to do, > a bare metal restore solution, that I would be better served > by going with > either hardware or software raid maybe combined with something like > a tape backup solution, and that their desktop / workstation > applications are not suited as a complete backup - bare > metal restore solution. He said their system was mainly for taking > system snapshots for development purposes. The "bare metal" restore most companies tote is not as seamless as they lead to believe and often requires to be run on a "Server" version of Windows. I would follow Les' advice and use an imager program like clonezilla or Ghost and make a quarterly image and put it to an external HD and have a bootable USB memory stick or live CD with the software on it to restore the image if necessary. Ok for now, just get the cheap 3ware card you were planning as long as it'll be supported in the future. Get an external HD and download one of the free cloning packages live CDs. Clone your hardware mirrored setup to the external HD. Have the OS backup software perform nightly backups to the external HD. Then you have some hardware fault tolerance, and backups, as well as an image of your HD just in case and all for a lot cheaper then when you were talking complete redundancy. If your computer blows up, you can have another computer available, wait you do, your CentOS box... -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 71 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:51:54 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAC94A.40000 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Therese Trudeau wrote: >>>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get >>>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or >>>>> triple with Windows. >>>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and >>>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or >>>> network drive. >>> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X >>> now too. >> Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on linux >> or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other >> direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows >> workstation versions. > > I just called VMWare and the guy said that for what I wanted to do, > a bare metal restore solution, that I would be better served by going with > either hardware or software raid maybe combined with something like > a tape backup solution, and that their desktop / workstation > applications are not suited as a complete backup - bare > metal restore solution. He said their system was mainly for taking > system snapshots for development purposes. I didn't mean to always run under VMware. What you would want to do is get your main application(s) working natively for best performance, then use VMware for whatever else you might need that would otherwise need a separate machine/OS. When you switch to Linux or a Mac, you often have a few Windows programs that you may not use often but you can't duplicate (the netflix online movie viewer, for example...). Running windows under vmware means you don't have to keep a separate box around for these. Then backups of the main system will automatically include these without extra trouble too. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 72 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:08:59 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DACD4B.8090208 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed John R Pierce wrote: > Robert Arkiletian wrote: >> On 3/10/08, nate <centos at linuxpowered.net> wrote: >> >> >>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well >>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown) >>> >> >> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to >> help if your PS fails. >> >> > > redundant power supplies connected to redundant UPS's. I've seen more > UPS failures than I've ever had failed PSUs on proper server grade > hardware. Exactly - You can expect a UPS to need new batteries every few years, but I had one machine with a 4+year uptime (and only because I was able to move power cords, change UPS's, and swap it's mirrored hard drives on the fly). The machine is still running (RH 7.3) but it's less critical now and I was too lazy to drag along a UPS when I had to move it to a different location. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 73 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:24:13 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?) To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAD0DD.1050902 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote: > Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> writes: > >> 'fsck -y' seems to fix it up, but it keeps happening. Is this likely >> to be leftover cruft from the hardware issues or are there problems >> in ext3/raid1/sata drivers? The way backuppc stores data with >> millions of hardlinks in the archive it isn't really practical to >> copy it off, reformat, and start over. > > Maybe a memory problem: > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext3.user/3457/focus=3459 Back to this problem again. I did a new mkfs.ext3 and ran more than a week before hitting this again: Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=14439505280, limit=1465143808 Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3): ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 0 Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: Aborting journal on device md3. Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=5260961472, limit=1465143808 Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3): ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 4096 I don't see any hardware related errors, and the rest of the filesystems all seem fine, although this is the one that is busy. Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs with one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a couple of years on earlier kernels. Will it hurt anything to mount the underlying partition of one of the drives directly for a while instead of using the md device? -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 74 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:23:44 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: [CentOS] Thunderbird: can't seem to install french spell checker To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAD0C0.9050702 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi, I can't install a french spell checker in Thunderbird. There's a link in Thunderbird's preferences, to download new dictionaries, but it's dumb. So I downloaded the dictionary manually (spell-FR.xpi) and installed it in Thunderbird using the 'Extensions' dialog. But the installed dictionary doesn't appear anywhere. Googled some over this problem, and it seems like this happens to quite some people. Anyone on this list successfully installed a non-english spell checker in Thunderbird? Cheers, Niki ------------------------------ Message: 75 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:43:34 -0400 From: "Christopher E" <sensory.access at gmail.com> Subject: [CentOS] MSG for Barry To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <184c54640803141243p2c04546aq7827c7ef94c10192 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello Barry, could you email me please, I try to email you and it was returned. Sincerely, Christopher ------------------------------ Message: 76 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:05:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "James B. Byrne" <byrnejb at harte-lyne.ca> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Gnome desktop, workspaces and windows To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <33335.216.185.71.22.1205525148.squirrel at webmail.harte-lyne.ca> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 On Wed, March 12, 2008 12:59, James B. Byrne wrote: > I was editing a file in gvim when I inadvertently pressed some key combination > that caused the vim window to disappear from the desktop. ... > > Questions: > > What key combination places the window with focus into another workspace? > A. <shift><ctrl><alt><left>|<right>|<up>|<down> > What key combination or other method moves it back into the primary workspace? > A. Same as above. > Why did hiding all windows empty the alternate workspace? > A. It did not. The windows therein were all minimized and had to be restored from the bottom menu bar of the applicable workspace. > How do I get my vim instance back from wherever it is gone? A. Same as above. Alternatively, you can click and drag with your mouse any window between workspaces. Live and learn; with pain, suffering, and general discomfort, but learn nonetheless. -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3 ------------------------------ Message: 77 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:31:32 -0400 From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> Subject: RE: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?) To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0014 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Les Mikesell wrote: > Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote: > > Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> writes: > > > >> 'fsck -y' seems to fix it up, but it keeps happening. Is this likely > >> to be leftover cruft from the hardware issues or are there problems > >> in ext3/raid1/sata drivers? The way backuppc stores data with > >> millions of hardlinks in the archive it isn't really practical to > >> copy it off, reformat, and start over. > > > > Maybe a memory problem: > > > > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext3.user/3457/focus=3459 > > Back to this problem again. I did a new mkfs.ext3 and ran more than a > week before hitting this again: > > Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=14439505280, limit=1465143808 > Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3): ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 0 > Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: Aborting journal on device md3. > Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=5260961472, limit=1465143808 > Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3): ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 4096 > > I don't see any hardware related errors, and the rest of the filesystems > all seem fine, although this is the one that is busy. Is your memory ECC? If not then a memory problem can fly under the radar. > Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs with > one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a couple of > years on earlier kernels. I haven't seen any other dm-raid problems, and dm-raid is quite mature at this point. I won't say it isn't possible. Can you try running with just 2 drives for a while after this fsck and see if it happens again? > Will it hurt anything to mount the underlying partition of one of the > drives directly for a while instead of using the md device? I don't know. Depends how dm-raid keeps it's bitmap and meta-data. If it's at the end then it should work, if it's at the beginning, then you'd have to offset the mount (carefully). You will need to be very careful when messing with the partition table to change it's type and if you recreate the RAID1 again with existing data on it (don't have a procedure for that). -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ------------------------------ Message: 78 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:27:19 -0400 From: Robert Spangler <mlists at zoominternet.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <200803141627.19326.mlists at zoominternet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Friday 14 March 2008 12:32, Niki Kovacs wrote: > Right now, on one of my desktops, I've installed AMSN, which requires > opening a series of ports. I've configured the app to use ports 7000 to > 7010 (TCP and UDP). When running system-config-securitylevel-tui, the > last line enables to define custom ports, not mentioned elsewhere in the > menu. So, for example, when I want to add port 6891 for tcp and udp, I > write an entry like this: Check out this site. It's a tutorial fro IPTables. http://iptables.rlworkman.net/chunkyhtml/index.html -- Regards Robert Smile... it increases your face value! Linux User #296285 http://counter.li.org ------------------------------ Message: 79 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:52:31 -0700 From: Rogelio <scubacuda at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] php 4/5 dependency question To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <2b7af7c40803141452t4426ec51k19de24e78139675e at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On 3/11/08, Fajar Priyanto <fajarpri at cbn.net.id> wrote: > > On Wednesday 12 March 2008 04:04:03 Jim Perrin wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Rogelio <scubacuda at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Error: php-pecl-apc conflicts with php-mmcache > > > Error: Missing Dependency: php = 4.3.9 is needed by package > php-mmcache > > > Error: php-eaccelerator conflicts with php-mmcache > > > > Sanity would suggest not using a wildcard on install. Dependencies are > > turned on, your issue is a package conflict because you chose to > > install two separate methods for doing the same thing, which don't > > agree. Use a sane install command and it'll work. > > > Try yum install php-mysql I get the following error when I try to "yum update" ---> Package xorg-x11-xfs.i386 0:6.8.2-1.EL.33.0.2 set to be updated --> Running transaction check --> Processing Dependency: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.8.8) for package: perl-DBD-MySQ L --> Finished Dependency Resolution Error: Missing Dependency: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.8.8) is needed by package perl- DBD-MySQL (I already installed php-mysql, but got nothing....) Any ideas? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/fe19c0e8/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 80 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:14:17 +0100 From: Nicolas KOWALSKI <niko at petole.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?) To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <873aqtc5s6.fsf at petole.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> writes: > Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs > with one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a > couple of years on earlier kernels. Well, I also found this one: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.raid/6455/focus=6908 Is your machine a "cheap" one ? -- Nicolas ------------------------------ Message: 81 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:37:58 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?) To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DAFE46.2080301 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote: > > >> Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs >> with one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a >> couple of years on earlier kernels. > > Well, I also found this one: > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.raid/6455/focus=6908 > > Is your machine a "cheap" one ? The motherboard is a few years old but decent originally. The SATA drives and controller are recent and if it is their fault I'd expect driver-level errors, not just filesystem issues. Hmmm, the disks are in a removable-tray carrier that is also somewhat old and I can shift them to a newer trayless cage to see if that makes a difference but when problems only happen once a week it is hard to tell when/if they are fixed. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 82 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:46:01 +0000 From: "Amos Shapira" <amos.shapira at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Good version control package? To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <9c2cca270803141546u1a172662s9bc6c10de524cd8b at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Sean Carolan <scarolan at gmail.com> wrote: > > I dont really think you can get much easier than CVS if you need > > centralized management over a network. If it never gets off the > > machine then there is RCS. If those aren't simple enough... I don't > > think any of the others are going to help. > > Thanks for the pointers, it looks like we will go with CVS. > I'd recommend you re-consider SVN. It's as simple as CVS (in terms of command line ease of use) but also adds important things: 1. Atomic commits (when checking in multiple file changes, either all of them or none of them will go in). 2. Directory operations (moving files and directories around is as simple as "svn mv source destination") 3. Branches are a breeze (e,g, "svn mkdir branches/project-a; svn cp trunk/file branches/project-a") I don't see any reason for anyone to get themselves into the trap that's called CVS at this time and age. (BTW - if you started with CVS then you should be able to move over to SVN, there are programs to convert the repository). Cheers, --Amos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080314/47912e0f/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 83 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:03:47 -0700 From: MHR <mhullrich at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] evince on centos5.1 To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <f4e013870803141603h2decbf0em1b3dae79d9d24de at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Mogens Kjaer <mk at crc.dk> wrote: > William L. Maltby wrote: > ... > > I use Adobe's acroread. Works very well. But don't get the 8.* series - > > it's broken in printer interface and is a little bloated do to a not yet > > really useful voice reader capability. > > Broken? How? > > I've printed many pages from acroread 8.x > I found that with AR 8.*, when I click on the print button, all I get is a window with all the right gray areas and no text, options, etc. It hangs up completely and never comes back. I went back to 7.9 and it all works perfectly. I've seen from other comments that I am not alone here, but I have no idea what's going on, other than it doesn't work. I use CUPS and have a Minolta PagePro 1100 laser printer that works great with the foomatic lj4 driver in everything else. YMMV. mhr ------------------------------ Message: 84 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:35:18 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?) To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DB0BB6.8010307 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ross S. W. Walker wrote: >> Back to this problem again. I did a new mkfs.ext3 and ran more than a >> week before hitting this again: >> >> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=14439505280, limit=1465143808 >> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3): ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 0 >> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: Aborting journal on device md3. >> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=5260961472, limit=1465143808 >> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3): ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 4096 >> >> I don't see any hardware related errors, and the rest of the filesystems >> all seem fine, although this is the one that is busy. > > Is your memory ECC? If not then a memory problem can fly under the radar. dmidecode says single-bit ECC > >> Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs with >> one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a couple of >> years on earlier kernels. > > I haven't seen any other dm-raid problems, and dm-raid is quite mature > at this point. I won't say it isn't possible. Can you try running with > just 2 drives for a while after this fsck and see if it happens again? I normally run with only 2. I add the 3rd once a week long enough to sync, then unmount the partition long enough to fail and remove the 3rd, then rotate it offsite. The times it has had problems, there have only been 2 active partitions. >> Will it hurt anything to mount the underlying partition of one of the >> drives directly for a while instead of using the md device? > > I don't know. Depends how dm-raid keeps it's bitmap and meta-data. If > it's at the end then it should work, if it's at the beginning, then > you'd have to offset the mount (carefully). > > You will need to be very careful when messing with the partition table > to change it's type and if you recreate the RAID1 again with existing > data on it (don't have a procedure for that). I can mount the underlying partition without changing its type and it appears to work. I do that regularly to test the offsite copy but have always later wiped it with a new sync from the live set so I don't know if there is any harm done to using it as an md device after that. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 85 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:31:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Scott R. Ehrlich" <scott at MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Overland Arcvault 12 and sequential/random settings To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0803142027310.8246 at biohazard-cafe.mit.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Max Hodgson wrote: > I use Dell 124T tape loaders with Centos. The controlling device on mine is > separate to the data device. Turned out to be at least the need for a new scsi card, which I obtained. I also used a new machine. But your experience below did lead me to review dmesg more carefully, which led to the proper device that happened to not be /dev/st0. mtx did respond positively. It is possible the first "problem" machine could work with the new card, but I have other things to battle :-) Thanks again. Scott > > e.g. > > I use: > > $> mtx -f /dev/sg1 status > > But for writing to tape: > > $> tar cvf /dev/st0 /etc > > I think the dmesg told me which device to use to control. > > mjh > > > On 13/03/2008, Scott R. Ehrlich <scott at mit.edu> wrote: >> >> My unit's firmware: library 05.03, tape d22h, shows the device as set to >> random mode. But mtx -f /dev/st0 status gives an error that google says >> the device is in sequential mode. dmesg|grep -i hp does reflect CentOS >> thinks the device is a sequential unit. >> >> I've tried this with Fedora 8, too, and both show the same, so it is >> either an issue with CentOS/Fedora RPMs, or the version of MTX? >> >> I'm going to try a simple install of Ubuntu next and see if there is any >> difference. >> >> Is this a bug with the firmware, or with my setup? >> >> I have rebooted the tape drive and machine several times. >> >> I have the drive connected to an Adaptec 29160. >> >> I have another identical drive on another system, with a library firmware >> of d21h, tape firmware 04.04, and that works perfectly with mtx, though it >> is connected to a different SCSI card. >> >> Thanks for any help/insights. >> >> Scott >> _______________________________________________ >> CentOS mailing list >> CentOS at centos.org >> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >> > ------------------------------ Message: 86 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 01:39:57 +0100 From: mouss <mouss at netoyen.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DB1ADD.90405 at netoyen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Jeff Larsen wrote: > > > Taking a different approach than others... > > Load them back into Outlook Express on a Windows box. Open a gmail > account and enable it for IMAP access. Configure Outlook Express for > gmail/IMAP and copy the messages to gmail folders. Configure T-Bird on > CentOS for gmail/IMAP and copy from gmail to Local Folders. Hopefully > you don't have several Gigs of messages. If you already have an IMAP > enabled mail account somewhere else, you could use that too. > > no need for gmail if he has a machine that can run an imap server (dovecot, courier, ...), as this would be faster. and yes, if the mailbox is large, that'll take a loooooong time. I don't know which outlook* variants can copy multiple folders at once. Last time I had to do this, I needed to copy folders one at a time and when I reached the last folder, I left the machine for one day... (that was with some outlook 200?). ------------------------------ Message: 87 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:27:55 -0700 From: Bill Campbell <centos at celestial.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird? To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <20080315012755.GA23653 at ayn.mi.celestial.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Mar 15, 2008, mouss wrote: >Jeff Larsen wrote: >> >> >>Taking a different approach than others... >> >>Load them back into Outlook Express on a Windows box. Open a gmail >>account and enable it for IMAP access. Configure Outlook Express for >>gmail/IMAP and copy the messages to gmail folders. Configure T-Bird on >>CentOS for gmail/IMAP and copy from gmail to Local Folders. Hopefully >>you don't have several Gigs of messages. If you already have an IMAP >>enabled mail account somewhere else, you could use that too. > >no need for gmail if he has a machine that can run an imap server >(dovecot, courier, ...), as this would be faster. > >and yes, if the mailbox is large, that'll take a loooooong time. I don't >know which outlook* variants can copy multiple folders at once. Last >time I had to do this, I needed to copy folders one at a time and when I >reached the last folder, I left the machine for one day... (that was >with some outlook 200?). My normal method of getting mail from an Exchange or other IMAP server to a local Maildir store is with a python script that logs into the remote IMAP server, queries for all the folders, then copies all the messages to the local Maildir (which is usually served by courier-map). We *STRONGLY* recommend that people leave their mail on the IMAP server, not on their desktop machines as (a) it's on a reliable server, not the Microsoft Virus Windows, (b) it's easy to move to a new desktop machine with minimal hassle, and (c) it's available via webmail or remote secure IMAP when away from the desk. Over the years I've written scripts to convert from a variety of mail stores to Maildir including standard Unix mail files, U.W. IMAP binary mbx format, kmail, etc. As I remember the original posting was talking about mail stored in Microsoft's proprietary binary format, I think the same one used by Access and Exchange servers. I have never tackled recovering data from these formats, and Friends don't let Friends do Windows. Bill -- INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 It is surprising how much new stuff users find that developers never do. You put a copy in front of a normal user and they find all these bugs that you would think developers would find. The real users and developers are completely different species as far as I am concerned. --Linux creator Linus Torvalds ------------------------------ Message: 88 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:33:35 -0500 From: "Sean Carolan" <scarolan at gmail.com> Subject: [CentOS] Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <277020fc0803141833h7627b072rff8ce236191d128b at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have also found that there are a small handful of hosts that seem to spit out a line or two of log output once in a while on the server, but have not yet identified a pattern. ------------------------------ Message: 89 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:09:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Scott R. Ehrlich" <scott at MIT.EDU> Subject: [CentOS] Incremental backups? To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0803142201190.13300 at biohazard-cafe.mit.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed So I thought I'd get a head start for next week - I have a low-power Linux box that has a few samba shares mounted, and limited hard disk space. This box is connected to a tape library via SCSI card. I want to find the best way to create a full, then incremental backup of the samba mounts, directly to tape. Some of the samba mounts are appliances that cannot run any special client/agent. I'm looking at tar as an option, with its --incremental switch. Bacula uses a mysql database. I tried setting it up and it was not so easy, so I opted to use my time for other tasks. Same for Amanda. I would use dump, but samba connections are not device files. How about rsync? The tape library is LTO3 with hardware compression available. Google searching just now doesn't make rsync directly to tape too hopeful. What are the simplest options for incrementals based on date/time modified? Thanks. Scott ------------------------------ Message: 90 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:34:40 +0700 From: Fajar Priyanto <fajarpri at cbn.net.id> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Incremental backups? To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <200803150934.40689.fajarpri at cbn.net.id> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Saturday 15 March 2008 09:09:31 Scott R. Ehrlich wrote: > I would use dump, but samba connections are not device files. > > How about rsync? The tape library is LTO3 with hardware compression > available. Google searching just now doesn't make rsync directly to tape > too hopeful. > > What are the simplest options for incrementals based on date/time > modified? I've tried rdiff-backup and it works quite ok. http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/ -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 09:34:33 up 2:24, 2.6.22-14-generic GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org The real challenge of teaching is getting your students motivated to learn. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080315/81f93972/attachment-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 91 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:12:54 -0500 From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Incremental backups? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DB4CC6.7080003 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Scott R. Ehrlich wrote: > So I thought I'd get a head start for next week - > > I have a low-power Linux box that has a few samba shares mounted, and > limited hard disk space. This box is connected to a tape library via > SCSI card. > > I want to find the best way to create a full, then incremental backup of > the samba mounts, directly to tape. Some of the samba mounts are > appliances that cannot run any special client/agent. > > I'm looking at tar as an option, with its --incremental switch. Bacula > uses a mysql database. I tried setting it up and it was not so easy, so > I opted to use my time for other tasks. Same for Amanda. If you spend a little time setting up amanda or backup, they'll take care of this for you with no attention for years. If you roll your own, you'll probably be fiddling with it all the time to get it right. > I would use dump, but samba connections are not device files. > > How about rsync? The tape library is LTO3 with hardware compression > available. Google searching just now doesn't make rsync directly to > tape too hopeful. You can't do rsync to tape. > What are the simplest options for incrementals based on date/time modified? The one that gets it right is: cd /path/to/save tar --listed-incremental /path/to/incfile -c -f /dev/nst0 . where incfile is arbitrary filename that you choose for each run. If the file doesn't exist, you'll get a full run and create the file. If it does exist you get an incremental and the file is re-written in place for a subsequent incremental run. If you want all incrementals based from the full so you only have to restore 2 tapes, you have to save the incfile from the full run and put it back after incremental runs modify it. If you don't do it that way, you'll miss copying old files in their new positions under a renamed directory because a strictly time based check won't pick that up. You are on your own keeping track of which tapes have to be restored in which order to match the incrementals with the parent fulls. Bacula or amanda would do that for you. If you want something easier and can live with disk based backups instead of tape, look at backuppc (http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/). I still run amanda because I set it up about 10 years ago and never have to do anything but change the tapes, but I take the tapes offsite and would only restore from them after a disaster. For day-to-day stuff it is much easier to grab a copy or do a restore from the on-line web interface of backuppc. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 92 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:14:40 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DB5B40.4020502 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robert Spangler a écrit : > > Check out this site. It's a tutorial fro IPTables. > > http://iptables.rlworkman.net/chunkyhtml/index.html > Funny you send me this link. I know Robbie Workman as an ex-fellow Slackware user. And I also know some basic iptables (no system-config-* in Slackware :oD). My question was more about the syntax of the integrated Firewall tool that ships with CentOS. Cheers, Niki ------------------------------ Message: 93 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:44:06 +0100 From: Mogens Kjaer <mk at crc.dk> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Incremental backups? To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DB7E46.4030306 at crc.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Scott R. Ehrlich wrote: ... > I'm looking at tar as an option, with its --incremental switch. Bacula > uses a mysql database. I tried setting it up and it was not so easy, so > I opted to use my time for other tasks. Same for Amanda. I use: cd / tar cvlbf 512 /dev/nst0 \ --multi-volume --new-volume-script /usr/local/bin/mtxnext \ --ignore-failed-read \ --listed-incremental /home/root/backup/incremental_logfile \ . >$LOGDIR/root_$BACKUPDATE.log 2>&1 A full backup is done once every week, followed by daily incremental backups: This is controlled by the tape status. Every Monday we replace the tapes in the robot. So when no tape is loaded in the drive this signals that a full backup must be done. To make a full backup, I simply erase /home/root/backup/incremental_logfile before doing the above command. The mtxnext script selects the next tape on the robot and waits for the robot to finish. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk ------------------------------ Message: 94 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:46:55 +0100 From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> Subject: [CentOS] Firefox 3 To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org> Message-ID: <47DB7EEF.4060708 at kikinovak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi, I just read the release announcement for RHEL 5.2beta: https://www.redhat.com/archives/rhelv5-announce/2008-March/msg00000.html And something caught my eye: --8<----------------------------------------- * Laptop and Desktop Enhancement + Suspend and Hibernate improvements + Re-base of the top Desktop applications - Evolution 2.12.3 - Firefox 3 - OpenOffice 2.3.0 - Thunderbird 2.0 + Updated graphics drivers --8<----------------------------------------- I see that the folks from Red Hat decided to completely ignore Firefox 2.0: an eloquent detail. Now it's more than once that I've read good things about Firefox 3. Much less RAM-hungry than it's predecessors, excellent standards compliance, much more stable. What's the best way to get Firefox 3 on my CentOS 5.1? Is there some RPM for RHEL somewhere? Some SRPM? Or simply wait patiently for CentOS 5.2? Aside: I use XFCE, not GNOME, so I don't have to go through the chore of updating some core GNOME components (like Yelp). Cheers, Niki ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos End of CentOS Digest, Vol 38, Issue 15 **************************************
- Previous message: [CentOS] Gnash 0.8.2 rpm for CentOS 4?
- Next message: [CentOS] what should I do?
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
More information about the CentOS mailing list