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On Thu, 2008-06-05 at 18:34 +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote:<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subscribing to centos-devel or starting a SIG or doing a project on</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://projects.centos.org/">http://projects.centos.org/</A> does not require *any* invitation and that</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">is where involvement starts. Well, it even does start on a lower level -</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">by supporting other users on IRC, forums or mailing lists. Which also</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">does not require an invitation. Neither does writing up documentation on</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">the Wiki. </FONT>
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the problem here is that i thought i saw where a person had to have permission for these things such as the wiki. when some asks a question in irc which may be a general linux question, should they be told that centos doesnt support it therefore go away? the impression here is that if its not a centos rpm, then we want nothing to do with it. while that may be true in fact, i think this is wrong inherently with the mission of centos to tell someone this. i understand it gets old to sit and watch these kind of questions all the time, maybe someone needs a break then.
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">Access to packages preliminary to release or access to build hosts -</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">that requires an invitation. But that is on top of the involvement</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">process. </FONT>
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understood.
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > If CentOS noticed a huge decline in users they might be concerned about</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > this. They haven't; you're probably the only one I've heard bringing</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > up this issue and honestly it sounds like you were the cause of the</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > problem.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> that may be your perception. perhaps you would want to look at the logs</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> so you would know.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Others probably had another perception - and I think that today might</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">have been just "the icing on the cake". </FONT>
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this is unfortunate and a failure of this type of communication.<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">> and users do not react well to being told rudely 'it will be ready when</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> its ready', that is just rude.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">But it will only be ready when it is ready. If there would be a known</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">date or even week, that would have been announced. But from the</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">beginning on people have been told that it normally takes three to four</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">weeks for CentOS to follow up on a release from upstream. And I don't</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">see anything rude in stating exactly that - it is ready when it is</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">ready. And the time frame within that "is ready" will happen is still</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">the same as in Tim's blog post on planet.centos.org.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">What is rude about that?</FONT>
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its seen as a non-definitive answer to a question that would normally ask for more detail. i.e., a copout.
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">> i do not perceive it as a paying customer, and i was not the one that</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> brought that up. now that it has been brought up, what is the mission of</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> CentOS ?</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To provide people with a free (as in beer, RHEL and CentOS are also free</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">as in free speech) Enterprise Linux Distribution. I think that counts as</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">goal No. 1.</FONT>
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does this include support in IRC? or mailing lists and forums only? (just curious) notice my criticism here is the IRC channels only and the responses there.
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > This is open source etiquette. It differs from business etiquette</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > where you are more than welcoem to berate and yell and holler about</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > things because you're paying someone a lot of money.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> the etiquette is rudeness to promote open source? is this what you are</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> saying?</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">No. But people rather do work on stuff so that it does get ready than to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">market around it and promise stuff that won't happen.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Ralph</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">_______________________________________________</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">CentOS mailing list</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="mailto:CentOS@centos.org">CentOS@centos.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos">http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos</A></FONT>
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