Discuss August 2006

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269 participants
332 discussions

RE: Re: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>> Well, that's not the way it came across. > >To you perhaps. They have medications to help with this. >If you think that one or two people are being hostile, then maybe they >are. When you're operating under the impression that EVERYONE is being >hostile to you... you have to at least consider the possibility that >it's NOT THEM with the issues. > >Grow the thickness of skin required to survive on mailing lists and >irc. Don't respond to hostile posts with hostility, you'll only draw >fire. EIther contribute, or quit whining about how you're being >persecuted. You've been offered at least 3 different hosting areas >during this trainwreck of a thread. > Actually, I've been chatting online for about 20 years now. First on BBSes and then in IRC. Again, the CentOS forums and the people on this mailing list that I had problems with are the only ones that I have encountered this issue with. Those offers came AFTER the flame-fest began, not before. >To everyone else: > >LET THIS THREAD DIE THE DEATH IT DESERVES. > > > >-- >During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary >act. >George Orwell >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>>>"For those of us who have neither?" >> >> Yeah. Because this statement doesn't give the tone of overt hostility at >all.....*eyeroll* > >I see no hostility in someone asking a question that directly acknowledges >what your original post stated: > >"For those of you that either have an older revision of my firewall document, >or are otherwise keeping track of it, there is a new version available." > >He plainly asks what if we don't have the older version or are not keeping >track >of it, but are otherwise interested? I think you are reading in to it too >much. >Someone not privy to your original thread announcing the document shows >interest, >and you basically retort it's none of his business (and less politely I might >add). > >Now who's the elitist? > Well, that's not the way it came across. >Ian >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>> Well, that's not the way it came across. > >And now you see how one misinterpretation fuels the fires of a flamewar. >Hence, my advice - do not let your preconceived notions of how a >community's minority might react color your participation in said >community. Obviously you want to participate and obviously you have >somethign to share. That is the crux of Open Source. The "elitist" attitude >is not as widely pervasive as people like to think, it's just the >press and others grasp onto the minority of outspoken member of the >community and nobody writes about the droves of people who are >genuinely helpful. > >Plop your docs onto the CentOS wiki - and be prepared - you might get some >criticism since it will be out in public. But, you also might receive some >praise. Constructive criticism of the document I don't mind. That's how I improve it. Alot of the changes of the document came through constructive criticism and/or feedback. Such as the "headless operation" portion of it. In fact, the document recently went throguh a significant re-write due to my own criticism of the document when I built the firewall I will be deploying this weekend. I found that the anti-virus solution broke something I was trying to accomplish, so I removed it until I can find a better solution. I also added an additional "helpful script". Just a bunch of things. >And don't further fuel the negative press of our elitist community >by being elitist yourself ;) Someone just stumbling on this list for the >first time probably just got a huge bad first impression of you. Now's a >good time to correct that impression. > >Ian >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by Ian Kaufman 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

> Well, that's not the way it came across. And now you see how one misinterpretation fuels the fires of a flamewar. Hence, my advice - do not let your preconceived notions of how a community's minority might react color your participation in said community. Obviously you want to participate and obviously you have somethign to share. That is the crux of Open Source. The "elitist" attitude is not as widely pervasive as people like to think, it's just the press and others grasp onto the minority of outspoken member of the community and nobody writes about the droves of people who are genuinely helpful. Plop your docs onto the CentOS wiki - and be prepared - you might get some criticism since it will be out in public. But, you also might receive some praise. And don't further fuel the negative press of our elitist community by being elitist yourself ;) Someone just stumbling on this list for the first time probably just got a huge bad first impression of you. Now's a good time to correct that impression. Ian

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RE: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>Frank, > >The glory of Google's gmail has allowed me to view this entire thread in it's >entirety as well as in thread order. > >The first post was your announcement >The first reply (second post) was from Stephen John Smoogen, who asked: > >"For those of us who have neither?" Yeah. Because this statement doesn't give the tone of overt hostility at all.....*eyeroll* > >The second reply (third post) was from Jim Perrin, who stated: > >"Would you consider posting it to the wiki to share with all?" > >Then, your reply to Stephen (fourth post): > >"Then there's no reason for you to fricken reply, is there?" > >The your reply to Jim (fifth post): > >"I actually had a thread I started in the forums about it, however, I >stopped monitoring the thread due to people accused me of being an >e-mail address harvester." > >And, the root of all evil, Karanbir's reply (sixth post): > >"and who are you ? >and what / where is your firewall doc ? > >- KB" > >And, we can conclude that you read Stephen's and Jim's posts before replying >to >Karanbir because you reference them in your reply to him (seventh post): > >"So far, two of the three replies, yours being one of them, have left me >with the impression that everyone in the CentOS community is the same as >the jerks in the forum were. I try to do something to contribute to the >community and I just get nothing but negativism." > >So, chronology and thread index favors the fact that you were the one who >replied inappropriately and began the flame war. > >Ian >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by Ian Kaufman 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

Frank, The glory of Google's gmail has allowed me to view this entire thread in it's entirety as well as in thread order. The first post was your announcement The first reply (second post) was from Stephen John Smoogen, who asked: "For those of us who have neither?" The second reply (third post) was from Jim Perrin, who stated: "Would you consider posting it to the wiki to share with all?" Then, your reply to Stephen (fourth post): "Then there's no reason for you to fricken reply, is there?" The your reply to Jim (fifth post): "I actually had a thread I started in the forums about it, however, I stopped monitoring the thread due to people accused me of being an e-mail address harvester." And, the root of all evil, Karanbir's reply (sixth post): "and who are you ? and what / where is your firewall doc ? - KB" And, we can conclude that you read Stephen's and Jim's posts before replying to Karanbir because you reference them in your reply to him (seventh post): "So far, two of the three replies, yours being one of them, have left me with the impression that everyone in the CentOS community is the same as the jerks in the forum were. I try to do something to contribute to the community and I just get nothing but negativism." So, chronology and thread index favors the fact that you were the one who replied inappropriately and began the flame war. Ian

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RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 11:22:48AM -0400, pctech(a)mybellybutton.com wrote: >> >That's because it's widely known and easily available. No one knew you >> >needed help with this until you mentioned it. At that point, all sorts of >> >suggestions for help came up, but you've so far chose to ignore then. >> It ISN'T widely known. I've been one of the "lurkers" on this list, and >> until about a month ago visited the site regularly. Never ocne did I know >> that there was a wiki that I could have used to post the document to. In >> fact, I didn't know until someone was kind enough to point it out >> off-list, I might add. > >It is *widely* know that there are many, many places on the internet where >you can publish helpful information for free. Even if you didn't know about >CentOS-specific resources, you had but to ask. > And all someone had to do was POLITELY say, "Hey. We have this resource available." ONE person did that, and they did it off-list before the "flaming" started. Once the "flaming" started it was a lost cause. > >-- >Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/> >Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 11:17:23AM -0400, pctech(a)mybellybutton.com wrote: >> Maybe I did overreact. And the onus is on me for that. However, he >> shouldn't have fricken posted if he didn't care. I apologize to the group, > >I can't speak for Stephen, but I assume he "fricken" posted because he was >interested and wanted to know more. So he asked for more info. And woah did >he not get what he asked for. > The first person that replied to my e-mail is the person that set the tone for my exchanges. Right or wrong there it is there. > >-- >Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/> >Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>pctech(a)mybellybutton.com wrote: >> No. I blame the people specifically. And since the vast majority of >> the people that have responded, both here and in the threads, >> respinded with overt hostitility, it sets the tone for the way the >> community appears. Right or wrong. That's what it does. If you >> walked into a crowd of strangers and several of them reacted to you >> with overt hostility, you'd think, "Jeeze. What a bunch of d*cks." > >So you walk into a crowd of strangers, start shouting abuse at them and >wonder why people react the way they do? > I "shouted abuse" AFTER I felt that I was being abused. >Furffu. > >Ralph >-- >Ralph Angenendt......ra(a)br-online.de | .."Text processing has made it >possible >Bayerischer Rundfunk...80300 München | ....to right-justify any idea, even >one >Programmbereich.Bayern 3, Jugend und | .which cannot be justified on any >other >Multimedia.........Tl:089.5900.16023 | ..........grounds." -- J. Finnegan, >USC > >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: RE: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 10:51:37AM -0400, pctech(a)mybellybutton.com wrote: >> So, seeing as how I am not some rich corporation that can afford stupid >> amounts of bandwidth exactly HOW am I supposed to distribute it any other >> way? Nobody gave ANY information in this regard until I had been properly >> flamed first. > >That's because it's widely known and easily available. No one knew you >needed help with this until you mentioned it. At that point, all sorts of >suggestions for help came up, but you've so far chose to ignore then. > It ISN'T widely known. I've been one of the "lurkers" on this list, and until about a month ago visited the site regularly. Never ocne did I know that there was a wiki that I could have used to post the document to. In fact, I didn't know until someone was kind enough to point it out off-list, I might add. >> This is the FIRST time anyone has taken offense at my manner of transport >> for my document. > >Your earlier message contradicts this. Remember, *we can check*! > >In *this* thread, people weren't offended by your method of transport -- >just perplexed. > >> >You really do seem to have an atiitude problem, and have already taken up >> >far too much of the bandwidth on this - usually helpful and good mannered >> >- list. >> THAT is why I posted to the list. Because I *THOUGHT* that it was usually >> helpful and good mannered. Apparently there's some secret handshake >> involved in getting a HELPFUL and GOOD MANNERED response that I am unaware >> of. Because I got neither until after I'd been flamed. > >Well, you should maybe step back and consider what the unique factor is in >this case. > Well, considering that this isn't the first time that I have distributed documents in this manner. The only unique factor is my audience. > >-- >Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/> >Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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Discuss August 2006