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Re: [CentOS] Dangerous Software Raid instructions on Wiki
by James B. Byrne 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

REPLY-TO: <183c528b0908121238k33c407ah18e4762c48652de4(a)mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:38:00 -0400 Brian Mathis <brian.mathis(a)gmail.com> > > It also helps to understand how people read instructions. When > they look at a page, they see {big blob of useless introduction > text}, then they see "Step 1, do this". They almost always go > right to Step 1. > > I'd bet $100 that everyone reading this thread has done that more > than once, recently. It's not good enough to put the warnings so > far separated from the actual commands. You might have some > feelings about how things *should* be done, but you don't get to > make that decision for people, you just need to know it and work > within it. "Code Complete" has an entire section on why variables should only be declared immediately before they are used. This is essentially the same issue in a different guise. > > As far as the replies here go, the first one insinuates that the > person can't follow instructions, the second one calls the person > dumb, and others say that the person is incompetent, and compares > their intelligence to that of a bottle. That IS rude and arrogant > in my book, and your final sentence only continues with the > passive-aggressive swiping that goes on too often in IT realms. > Well, I find that the real problem is more often the medium, not the messenger. The immediacy of E-Mail simply does not promote the reflective approach required to create effective written communication. However, what can be compensated for by body language when stated in person may project a brusque and contemptuous tone in writing so that failing to take the necessary time extracts its cost in needless upset and conflict. There are a few other things that people should really consider before they dash off their offhand remarks. Firstly, it is unwise to shout at ones watchman, for the next time they see something suspicious then they may remember the first occasion and hold their tongue. If somebody senses something is wrong then they should be civilly treated when they bring it to our attention. Even if their concern is the result of their misapprehension this is a sign that perhaps the information provided needs revisiting and revision. I doubt that anyone could reasonably hold up the documentation of most software as exemplars of clarity and comprehensiveness. Secondly, not all of us, I speculate that not even most of us, work in large organisations. In fact, I would venture to guess that most people using CentOS are found in small shops or even sole practitioner sites. So, railing about how things should be run given infinite resources and time simply of flies in the face of the realities surrounding OSS utilisation and is completely useless. Thirdly, the Net has a surfeit of nannies. If you are not yourself going to deal with the issue raised then keep silent. If the 'signal to noise' ratio is bothering you then at least withhold your own contribution to the noise. -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3

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OT: Firefox SSL error on Linux, Firefox OK on Windows - same web site
by Lanny Marcus 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

Using CentOS 5.3 (32 bit) on my Desktop with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.12. With one web site (LinkShare) I am getting an SSL error, after clicking to get a more advanced report I do not get that error, using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.13 on M$ Windows and I get the report OK on Windows. It appears, when using Firefox on Linux, that it is not ending up on the LinkShare web site and Firefox is giving me the below error. I use OpenDNS.com for DNS service. Question: How can I verify that there is no corruption in my Firefox installation on Linux and that I have the latest SSL CAs for it? TIA! Lanny Secure Connection Failed analytics.linksynergy.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for *.opendns.com (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain) * This could be a problem with the server's configuration, or it could be someone trying to impersonate the server. * If you have connected to this server successfully in the past, the error may be temporary, and you can try again later. Or you can add an exception… Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.12) Gecko/2009072711 CentOS/3.0.12-1.el5.centos Firefox/3.0.12

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Dangerous Software Raid instructions on Wiki
by Chan Chung Hang Christopher 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5 has: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64 dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64 Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result if run on the wrong disk(s). My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they first have to think about or questions they first need to answer. Christopher

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OT: hardware newbie p9115-505
by Fajar Priyanto 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

Hi guys, Sorry for the OT. I've posted it in some IBM related forums but no reply yet. We've got an IBM pSeries p9115-505 machine from warehouse. I notice that it doesn't have any port for the monitor. Where do we plug the monitor? >From Google it says something about HMC (Hardware Management Center). Any hints is really2 appreciated. Thank you.

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Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project Infrastructure
by James B. Byrne 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 03:23:57 +0100 Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Unfortunately, governments are typically not made of experts, but of > opportunists. Name one president of <insert your favorite political > entity here> that has been elected because he has a PhD in political > sciences/history/law/whatever, or because he had enough hands-on > experience in governing the state (maybe without a formal degree). Woodrow Wilson. Ph.D. in Political Science (John Hopkins), President of Princeton University, Governor of the State New Jersey, President of the United States of America. > Even if one such exists, I doubt he would listen to whatever > random non-initiated group of people are "suggesting". Then you would be wrong. Once his mind was made up then Wilson became quite closed to further suggestion on a subject. Up to that point he sought as wide and varied a range of opinion as he could obtain. Your pride in what you know is blinding you to the value of knowledge of others in areas where you know little and presume much. I have had much experience with volunteer organisations. I now stay well clear of any involvement with them. This recent string of interrogations by concerned people, whether ignorant or not, and the aggrieved tone of the responses of some of the inner circle demonstrate the type of emotional blackmail which I frequently encounter and find so distressful in these bodies. I have no doubt that everyone involved with CentOS is pursuing some goal that they believe serves the greater good. However, difficulties ofttimes arise when one encounters another who either does not share ones belief or, as is more often the case, understands the nature of the shared goal, or the means by which it is attained, in a fashion fundamentally at odds with ones own. These uncomfortable collisions with political reality often occur at junctures such as CentOS recently experienced. Most of the people here were no doubt quite content to allow the sages of the project whatever leeway that the sages desired. In return we got a free (as in beer) copy of a very reputable Linux distribution. Had the recent inner conflict not become public then this happy arrangement might have persisted indefinitely. I still consider this arrangement a very good bargain having neither the talent nor the desire to become a sage myself. However, when the mortal nature of the sages is revealed together with the possibility of a project collapse as very real consideration, regardless how unlikely, then those dependent upon the stability of the project become fearful. Fearful people seek reassurance that their fears are baseless. A bald statement by the sages that the fear is baseless is in itself insufficient. Doubtless the fearful have told themselves that many times already. Having inoculated doubt it is now incumbent upon those who sowed it to address specific concerns raised by those who fear. Telling people who voice concerns to get lost and find another distribution, even if their concerns are presented in the form of ill-considered suggestions, smacks of arrogance to me, however it appears to others. Further, it does absolutely nothing to address the fears that prompted the suggestion. The baleful effects of these kind of replies upon those who read but choose not to participate may only be imagined, but be assured they are neither positive nor insignificant. The fact that one is a volunteer leader does not lessen the requirement that to receive the trust and support of others one must meet satisfactorily the expectations of those who follow. I am not clamoring for any immediate changes. I do not propose a program that I wish anyone else to follow. I do appreciate very much the efforts of all who contribute to the success of the CentOS projects. I further acknowledge that those who presently form the core support team are probably best equipped to evaluate the bona fides of prospective core members. Nonetheless, it is very evident from the heated exchanges on this mailing list that there exists a substantial divergence on which path to take from here. It seems to me insupportable that the past practices of a small coterie of initiates deciding on everything without community input will suffice for the future. If that does become the choice taken then I foresee the community splitting in the future in consequence. Finally, please drop the word "meritocracy" in future communications. It implies a natural worthiness of those to whom it is applied which is simply not appropriate to these discussions. The proper word in this circumstance is "oligarchy." -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3

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c5-testing
by John R Pierce 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

is there a list more sutiable for c5-testing discussions? I'd like to install the php-5.2.9 on there, but I'm getting a dependency problem # yum update --enablerepo=c5-testing php Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, priorities Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * rpmforge: fr2.rpmfind.net * base: updates.interworx.info * updates: mirrors.cmich.edu * addons: mirror.stanford.edu * extras: mirrors.xmission.com Excluding Packages from Red Hat Enterprise 5 - RPMforge.net - dag Finished Excluding Packages from CentOS-5 - Base Finished Excluding Packages from CentOS-5 - Updates Finished 271 packages excluded due to repository priority protections Setting up Update Process Resolving Dependencies --> Running transaction check ---> Package php.i386 0:5.2.9-2.el5.centos set to be updated --> Processing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos for package: php --> Processing Dependency: php-cli = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos for package: php --> Running transaction check ---> Package php.i386 0:5.2.9-2.el5.centos set to be updated --> Processing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos for package: php ---> Package php-cli.i386 0:5.2.9-2.el5.centos set to be updated --> Processing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos for package: php-cli --> Finished Dependency Resolution php-5.2.9-2.el5.centos.i386 from c5-testing has depsolving problems --> Missing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos is needed by package php-5.2.9-2.el5.centos.i386 (c5-testing) php-cli-5.2.9-2.el5.centos.i386 from c5-testing has depsolving problems --> Missing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos is needed by package php-cli-5.2.9-2.el5.centos.i386 (c5-testing) Error: Missing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos is needed by package php-5.2.9-2.el5.centos.i386 (c5-testing) Error: Missing Dependency: php-common = 5.2.9-2.el5.centos is needed by package php-cli-5.2.9-2.el5.centos.i386 (c5-testing) and, when I list whats in c5-testing that matches php\*, I don't see that php-common at all. # yum list --disablerepo=\* --enablerepo=c5-testing php\* Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, priorities Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile Installed Packages php.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-cli.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-common.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-gd.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-ldap.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-mbstring.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-mcrypt.i386 5.1.6-15.el5.centos.1 installed php-mysql.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-pdo.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-pear.noarch 1:1.4.9-4.el5.1 installed php-pear-Date.noarch 1.4.7-2.el5.centos installed php-pgsql.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed php-xml.i386 5.1.6-23.2.el5_3 installed phpmyadmin.noarch 2.11.9.5-1.el5.rf installed Available Packages php.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-bcmath.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-cli.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-common.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-dba.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-debuginfo.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-devel.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-gd.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-imap.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-ldap.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-mbstring.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-mysql.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-ncurses.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-odbc.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-pdo.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-pear.noarch 1:1.5.1-2.el5s2 c5-testing php-pgsql.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-snmp.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-soap.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-suhosin.i386 0.9.25-1.el5.centos c5-testing php-suhosin-debuginfo.i386 0.9.25-1.el5.centos c5-testing php-xml.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing php-xmlrpc.i386 5.2.9-2.el5.centos c5-testing

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A bit more on the Firefox 3.5.issue
by Ron Blizzard 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

I set up a CentOS desktop computer for my brother and his kids. When Firefox 3.5 came out he decided to download and install it like he would Windows (he doesn't yet understand the repository system). He's been telling me that it works fine, even though I was skeptical due to my experience with Firefox 3.5 on CentOS 5.3. Then today, he says, "Oh, by the way, the CentOS computer has been rebooting itself every now and then." What?! (This is where he is in Linux -- doesn't realize that it's not like Windows, that it's not supposed to reboot randomly.) "Does it do it when you're in Firefox?" "Yes." He's okay, though, just a matter of uninstalling his home root version of Firefox -- I've been updating his computer with yum, so he still has the newest *repository* release of Firefox also. At any rate, just to let everyone know, whatever the issue is with Firefox 3.5 and *some* CentOS 5.3 computers (an Xorg graphics card incompatibility issue?) -- it goes beyond the RPM package released by Michael Harris. As for myself, I'm just going to wait for the repository Firefox 3.5 upgrade. -- RonB -- Using CentOS 5.3

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Million linux virtual machines
by Bob Hoffman 12 Aug '09

12 Aug '09

If someone posted already, forgive me I get the digest. http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43480/108/ Scientists get a million Linux kernels to run at once Scientists at Sandia National Laboratories in Livermore, have run more than a million Linux kernels as virtual machines. (how long before shared hosts use this....lol) The technique will allow them to effectively observe behaviour found in malicious botnets, or networks of infected machines that can operate on the scale of a million nodes. One of the researchers Ron Minnich, said they are often difficult to analyze since they are geographically spread all over the world. However using virtual machine and a Thunderbird supercomputing cluster for the demonstration, the team was able to run VMS at a similar scale as a botnet. This allows cyber researchers to watch how botnets work and explore ways to stop them in their tracks said Minnich. The largest number of kernals that had been run at once was 20,000 kernels. However the more kernels that can be run at once the more effective cyber security professionals can be in combating the global botnet problem. The hope is one day to emulate the computer network of a small nation, or even one as large as the United States, in order to 'virtualise' and monitor a cyber attack." "The sheer size of the Internet makes it very difficult to understand in even a limited way," said Minnich. It has been estimated that the team will need to run 100 million CPUs by 2018 in order to build a computer that will run at the speeds they need.

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CentOS Project Infrastructure
by Marcus Moeller 12 Aug '09

12 Aug '09

Dear Community, I recently started thinking about how to make a project like CentOS more transparent and open (especially for new contributors). The http://wiki.centos.org/Team page (which Dag created about a year ago) lists about 20 (more or less active) members, divided into core and community contributors. I personally do not like that kind of distinction. Of course there should be something like a 'board' and clear responsibilities (release management and such), but at least the board should be elected by all active members. As we are a community of ppl with high technical skills probably only persons with a valuable number of contributions and knowledge will be elected to the board. A board member could of course be responsible for core dev tasks, too. The board itself could consist of a mix of technical, marketing, or legal orientated ppl. To make this happen, the new maintainer process has to be clarified first. I am thinking about a (frequently maintained) list of open tasks e.g. maintained within trac, from which a new (and even existing) maintainer could choose one. Of course suggestions for task that are not listed there could be published on the ML. The 'Team' page should list major tasks one is working on or responsible for. If one needs help (e.g. I am in need of help for the website update), he/she could add a note to this task list (and maybe even announce on the ML) with contact details (wiki homepage). Other areas of taking part should and are already covered on: http://wiki.centos.org/Contribute But some aspects are still unclear: THE WIKI: For me a wiki is a collaboration platform which should be accessible to every contributor in the same manner (except the front and user pages). That means there should be a join process (where you have to agree to the cc license) which then leads to EditGroup membership. I do not see a good reason why new articles should first be published on the ML. A user should be able to add a new article and then announce it on the ML (if necessary). Same on the personal pages. Of course it makes sense that new users introduce theirself on the ML but they should already have access to their own personal page, before. A comment function could be a good feature but in a comparatively small community like ours, most of everything can be discussed via ML or could be handled through page changelog. I personally see no reason to honor authorship of created pages besides the wiki page history. THE BUGTRACKER: The CentOS bugtracker contains a lot of upstream bugs that cannot be fixed here. We have to make sure that these are tracked upstream and fixed there. THE CONTRIB REPO: This repository has been re-invited in CentOS 5.3 but it's still unclear what it's meant to be for. Could it contain non-free packages. Should'nt oss packages better be pushed to EPEL/RPMFusion or even RPMForge? Where should spec files go? Is there an SVN with write access and an automated build process, already? Barriers on this site should be lowered when it's clear what the repo is meant for. QA: Some of you might know that CentOS has got an QA process before releases. This is an closed process and invite only. There where some reasons for it (e.g. some ppl only took part in the beta program to get early access to upcoming releases) but an invite only QA could not be the solution. This process should be open to all members. BARRIERS: Overall, the barriers for new contributors are much too high. This can also be fixed with something like a mentorship program where longtime developers take care about new maintainers. Best Regards Marcus Moeller

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disable virtual terminals during kickstart installation
by James A. Peltier 12 Aug '09

12 Aug '09

Hi All, I'm trying to figure out where the inittab is for a pxeboot/kickstart installation so that I can disable virtual terminals that allow for interactive input such as CTRL+ALT+F2. I've looked in the /etc directories for the pxeboot initrd as well as the stage2 and minstg2 files. Am I missing something grossly obvious here? -- James A. Peltier Systems Analyst (FASNet), VIVARIUM Technical Director HPC Coordinator Simon Fraser University - Burnaby Campus Phone : 778-782-6573 Fax : 778-782-3045 E-Mail : jpeltier(a)sfu.ca Website : http://www.fas.sfu.ca | http://vivarium.cs.sfu.ca http://blogs.sfu.ca/people/jpeltier MSN : subatomic_spam(a)hotmail.com The point of the HPC scheduler is to keep everyone equally unhappy.

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