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RE: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 05 Aug '06

05 Aug '06

>Frank Tanner III wrote: >> >> My characterization of the community is spot-on with regards to >> the way >> that I have been treated both on the forums and in the mailing >> list >> over-all. >> >> I go out of my way to provide a document that I think might be >> useful to >> others and get nothing but harsh criticism for it. How would >> YOU feel >> if the roles were reversed? I wasn't looking for a "Thank you >> thank you >> for providing a wonderful document.", however I was not looking >> for a >> "You asshole. We have no idea what you are talking about. Piss >> off." >> either. And the latter is what I got. >> >> This whole thing could have been avoided had he either not >> responded at >> all if the message didn't concern him, respond with some USEFUL >> feedback, or apologize for being a jerk to begin with. >> >> As far as the "community" as a whole, go out there and read the >> trade >> publications and the publications that business decision makers >> base >> their decisions about the community on. They all, pretty much, >> say the >> same thing. Open Source is great. The people are not. That's >> what it >> boils down to. >> >> > > >Well, with an attitude like that, I can say that I don't think your >absence on the list will be missed. That's a mighty big chip on your >shoulder. It must be heavy. > >*shrug* > And YOU wouldn't have a big chip on your shoulder if you OFFERED something you worked for many months on up to people and got flamed for your troubles? > >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>Frank Tanner III wrote: > >> There goes YOUR attitude again. I *SPECIFICALLY* stated in my initial >> e-mail "or those of you that either have an older revision of my >> firewall document, or are otherwise keeping track of it, there is a new >> version available.". > >if you want your own private mailing list, go start one. bye bye! If you >are going to post something here, making it meaningful to people who >read the list - is a good thing, and expected from all posters. > It *WAS* meaningful. For the people that it was applicable to. Then people decided that because it wasn't applicable to them that they should flame me. It's attitudes such as this as to why people say, "You can never get good support with Open Source software." I came onto the list trying to be HJELPFUL, and got burnt to the ground instead. JUST like in the forums. I guess they'er right. No good deed goes unpunished. Now I understand why nobody has offered a document like this to the community before. It certainly makes me want to keep all of my future documents to myself. They're OBVIOUSLY only a bother to everyone and nobody wants them. >-K >-- >Karanbir Singh {kbsingh(a)centos.org} >The CentOS Project, http://www.centos.org/ >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

For those of you that either have an older revision of my firewall document, or are otherwise keeping track of it, there is a new version available. The current version of the document is version 3.1. It's changed rather significantly in some areas.

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RE: Re: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>> Well, that's not the way it came across. > >To you perhaps. They have medications to help with this. >If you think that one or two people are being hostile, then maybe they >are. When you're operating under the impression that EVERYONE is being >hostile to you... you have to at least consider the possibility that >it's NOT THEM with the issues. > >Grow the thickness of skin required to survive on mailing lists and >irc. Don't respond to hostile posts with hostility, you'll only draw >fire. EIther contribute, or quit whining about how you're being >persecuted. You've been offered at least 3 different hosting areas >during this trainwreck of a thread. > Actually, I've been chatting online for about 20 years now. First on BBSes and then in IRC. Again, the CentOS forums and the people on this mailing list that I had problems with are the only ones that I have encountered this issue with. Those offers came AFTER the flame-fest began, not before. >To everyone else: > >LET THIS THREAD DIE THE DEATH IT DESERVES. > > > >-- >During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary >act. >George Orwell >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>>>"For those of us who have neither?" >> >> Yeah. Because this statement doesn't give the tone of overt hostility at >all.....*eyeroll* > >I see no hostility in someone asking a question that directly acknowledges >what your original post stated: > >"For those of you that either have an older revision of my firewall document, >or are otherwise keeping track of it, there is a new version available." > >He plainly asks what if we don't have the older version or are not keeping >track >of it, but are otherwise interested? I think you are reading in to it too >much. >Someone not privy to your original thread announcing the document shows >interest, >and you basically retort it's none of his business (and less politely I might >add). > >Now who's the elitist? > Well, that's not the way it came across. >Ian >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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RE: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>> Well, that's not the way it came across. > >And now you see how one misinterpretation fuels the fires of a flamewar. >Hence, my advice - do not let your preconceived notions of how a >community's minority might react color your participation in said >community. Obviously you want to participate and obviously you have >somethign to share. That is the crux of Open Source. The "elitist" attitude >is not as widely pervasive as people like to think, it's just the >press and others grasp onto the minority of outspoken member of the >community and nobody writes about the droves of people who are >genuinely helpful. > >Plop your docs onto the CentOS wiki - and be prepared - you might get some >criticism since it will be out in public. But, you also might receive some >praise. Constructive criticism of the document I don't mind. That's how I improve it. Alot of the changes of the document came through constructive criticism and/or feedback. Such as the "headless operation" portion of it. In fact, the document recently went throguh a significant re-write due to my own criticism of the document when I built the firewall I will be deploying this weekend. I found that the anti-virus solution broke something I was trying to accomplish, so I removed it until I can find a better solution. I also added an additional "helpful script". Just a bunch of things. >And don't further fuel the negative press of our elitist community >by being elitist yourself ;) Someone just stumbling on this list for the >first time probably just got a huge bad first impression of you. Now's a >good time to correct that impression. > >Ian >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by Ian Kaufman 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

> Well, that's not the way it came across. And now you see how one misinterpretation fuels the fires of a flamewar. Hence, my advice - do not let your preconceived notions of how a community's minority might react color your participation in said community. Obviously you want to participate and obviously you have somethign to share. That is the crux of Open Source. The "elitist" attitude is not as widely pervasive as people like to think, it's just the press and others grasp onto the minority of outspoken member of the community and nobody writes about the droves of people who are genuinely helpful. Plop your docs onto the CentOS wiki - and be prepared - you might get some criticism since it will be out in public. But, you also might receive some praise. And don't further fuel the negative press of our elitist community by being elitist yourself ;) Someone just stumbling on this list for the first time probably just got a huge bad first impression of you. Now's a good time to correct that impression. Ian

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RE: Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>Frank, > >The glory of Google's gmail has allowed me to view this entire thread in it's >entirety as well as in thread order. > >The first post was your announcement >The first reply (second post) was from Stephen John Smoogen, who asked: > >"For those of us who have neither?" Yeah. Because this statement doesn't give the tone of overt hostility at all.....*eyeroll* > >The second reply (third post) was from Jim Perrin, who stated: > >"Would you consider posting it to the wiki to share with all?" > >Then, your reply to Stephen (fourth post): > >"Then there's no reason for you to fricken reply, is there?" > >The your reply to Jim (fifth post): > >"I actually had a thread I started in the forums about it, however, I >stopped monitoring the thread due to people accused me of being an >e-mail address harvester." > >And, the root of all evil, Karanbir's reply (sixth post): > >"and who are you ? >and what / where is your firewall doc ? > >- KB" > >And, we can conclude that you read Stephen's and Jim's posts before replying >to >Karanbir because you reference them in your reply to him (seventh post): > >"So far, two of the three replies, yours being one of them, have left me >with the impression that everyone in the CentOS community is the same as >the jerks in the forum were. I try to do something to contribute to the >community and I just get nothing but negativism." > >So, chronology and thread index favors the fact that you were the one who >replied inappropriately and began the flame war. > >Ian >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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Re: [CentOS] Centos Based Fierwall Document
by Ian Kaufman 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

Frank, The glory of Google's gmail has allowed me to view this entire thread in it's entirety as well as in thread order. The first post was your announcement The first reply (second post) was from Stephen John Smoogen, who asked: "For those of us who have neither?" The second reply (third post) was from Jim Perrin, who stated: "Would you consider posting it to the wiki to share with all?" Then, your reply to Stephen (fourth post): "Then there's no reason for you to fricken reply, is there?" The your reply to Jim (fifth post): "I actually had a thread I started in the forums about it, however, I stopped monitoring the thread due to people accused me of being an e-mail address harvester." And, the root of all evil, Karanbir's reply (sixth post): "and who are you ? and what / where is your firewall doc ? - KB" And, we can conclude that you read Stephen's and Jim's posts before replying to Karanbir because you reference them in your reply to him (seventh post): "So far, two of the three replies, yours being one of them, have left me with the impression that everyone in the CentOS community is the same as the jerks in the forum were. I try to do something to contribute to the community and I just get nothing but negativism." So, chronology and thread index favors the fact that you were the one who replied inappropriately and began the flame war. Ian

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RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Fierwall Document
by pctech＠mybellybutton.com 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

>On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 11:22:48AM -0400, pctech(a)mybellybutton.com wrote: >> >That's because it's widely known and easily available. No one knew you >> >needed help with this until you mentioned it. At that point, all sorts of >> >suggestions for help came up, but you've so far chose to ignore then. >> It ISN'T widely known. I've been one of the "lurkers" on this list, and >> until about a month ago visited the site regularly. Never ocne did I know >> that there was a wiki that I could have used to post the document to. In >> fact, I didn't know until someone was kind enough to point it out >> off-list, I might add. > >It is *widely* know that there are many, many places on the internet where >you can publish helpful information for free. Even if you didn't know about >CentOS-specific resources, you had but to ask. > And all someone had to do was POLITELY say, "Hey. We have this resource available." ONE person did that, and they did it off-list before the "flaming" started. Once the "flaming" started it was a lost cause. > >-- >Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/> >Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> >_______________________________________________ >CentOS mailing list >CentOS(a)centos.org >http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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