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Re: [CentOS] bad blocks showing up
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

From: Ted Kaczmarek <tedkaz(a)optonline.net> > I have seen what I consider an exorbitant amount of ide drive failure > lately, granted most of these are lower grade machines, but the > percentage of drives failing seems to be much higher than I recall. That's because ATA drives are spinning higher and higher, and people aren't cooling nearly as good as they used to. The typical, "commodity" ATA drive is typically rated for only 50,000 restarts with 8 hours of operation between, resulting a MTBF of 400,000 hours. And that assumes the following "ideal" conditions: - Ambient drive temperature never exceeds 40 degrees C - Drive is not powered 24x7 (most vendors recommend no more than 14x5 on their "commodity" models) - Drive is spun up at least once every few weeks** [ **NOTE: This is a major reason why you should _never_ use ATA drives a backup media if they are not going to be powered-on regularly (like in an on-line/near-line backup system). ] Now some vendors test their "commodity" drive lines and reserve those that test to higher tolerances for "Enterprise" labeling, possibly for the same ATA, or maybe a server SATA or SCSI drive. Other vendors use completely different lines for "enterprise" drives, using better lubricants, filters, mechanics, etc... > Is their possibly something with ext3 that stresses drives more? > Maybe the location of the journaling info? Naah, that would affect FAT systems and others too. The main problem is the density, spindle, heat and "ultra-thin manufacturing margin" of the drives these days. Especially given the increased spindles, the "cheap drives" just don't last under the constant operation and heat at 7200rpm. The "Big 3" manufacturers are Hitachi, Maxtor and Segate. IBM, Western Digital and other vendors no longer manufacture, and haven't for awhile. Hitachi and Seagate have split-lines, commodity and enterprise. Interface doesn't have anything to do with it, and even Hitachi and Seagate have SATA and SCSI models that use the exact same lines as their most commodity ATA ones. Of course, they also offer "Enterprise" ATA, SATA and SCSI models too, that are rated for much higher tolerances. Maxtor actually has a single commodity approach. Then they test drives against tolerances and rate them for MTBF and warranty based on that testing. I.e., all drives pretty much come off the same line, but the "Enterprise" drives are the ones that test high, while the "commodity" drives are everything left over. I'm partial to Seagate, despite the extra 10-20% cost on the commodity models, because they are giving 3-5 warranties as standard. They seem to do a little better on standard components, but that's just my opinion. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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Re: [CentOS] Re: Separate list for political/philosophical discussion
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

From: Ugo Bellavance <ugob(a)camo-route.com> > What does that mean... I can't really connect it to my original post. Sorry, I meant "list" instead of "last." As always, I believe in a meritocracy. And that means those who are on the project have final say. And those who don't should respect their wishes. With that said, I am not on the project, so I would respect what the project maintainers say. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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opensource backup software suggestions please
by Robin Mordasiewicz 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

What are the users here opinions on enteriprise grade opensource software for doing backups, as an alternative to bakbone or veritas. We just have basic requirements, i.e backing up nfs servers. --

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Re: [CentOS] Re: opensource backup software suggestions please -- VTL option ...
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

From: Ugo Bellavance <ugob(a)camo-route.com> > I'm using Thunderbird with nntp access on gmane and it works perfectly, > maybe you should try this out Brian. I use Evolution at home and it has no issues tracking Message Id. > I used to break threads with my other e-mail clients. Unfortunately, I have to use a web-based client at work. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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Re: opensource backup software suggestions please -- VTL option ...
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

From: Jim Bartus <jbartus(a)advance.net> > Bryan, > Something about your replies causes them to always be new threads rather > than inline with the rest of the conversation. > Is this just me (thunderbird 1.0.2 on FC3) or does everyone get this? I don't think my webmail reader is honoring the Message ID in the header. And I know my Treo doesn't. I'm working on switching to a new webmail interface. I hate it because I have to manually bottom-post. Unfortunately, GMail doesn't honor Message ID well either, so it's no better. I might switch to Yahoo. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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Topics in the CentOS-Announce list
by Johnny Hughes 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

I have been working with Joe Pruett (thanks Joe), to get the Topics feature for the mail list working. I think we now have the topics working fairly well. So if you only care about CentOS-3 i386 announcements (for example), you can pick that specific topic. There is also an option to pick the topics you care about, and all items that do not match any topics. (So that if we make an announcement that is not tied to one of those categories, you can get it too). If you are subscribed to the announce list and want to pick specific topics, go to: http://lists.centos.org/mailman/options/centos-announce Login with your e-mail address and password and choose the topics you want to receive. -- Johnny Hughes <http://www.HughesJR.com/>

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Re: Vote For CentOS :) -- standing on the shoulders of each other
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 09:36, Simon Perreault wrote: > i'm not sure you've considered your position thoroughly. > I am, and I will say it again just for the shock value: > Red Hat is the main developer of CentOS. On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Les Mikesell wrote: > I'd put it this way instead: Red Hat is responsible for any > difficulty in creating the CentOS distribution, while sharing > the same upstream developers as all other Linux distributions. From: Maciej ?enczykowski <maze(a)cela.pl> > BULLSHIT And so it begins. I think we've all had our say at this point. I can understand (although not agree) with Les' viewpoint. And I'm sure Simon feels like I do, Red Hat doesn't get due credit. But this is why I dislike these "distro contests" in the first place. The are entirely subjective and full of "absolutes" and "versus." Reality is that there is much so much overlap. *** Because we all stand on the shoulders of each other! *** Vote CentOS if you like it best. Vote RHEL if you like it best. Do it on your own opinion for your own reasons. I laid out what I thought mine were before. At least one person liked it. I try not to talk in "absolutes." And try to understand why RHEL and CentOS exists, let alone the Fedora Core and Red Hat Linux lineages. Apparently people want to debate this from a marketing/branding, and that's _always_ going to be "subjective." There are those of us who aren't upset with Red Hat, and deploy _both_ RHEL and CentOS for various reasons. And there are those others of us who are upset with Red Hat, and believe CentOS should not have to exist, that Red Hat should be providing it. And I'm sure there are others who wonder why people don't just run Fedora Core, or another distro for that matter. And yet other viewpoints different from those. It's all GPL, so lets just appreciate each other. This is what I meant by people focusing more on ripping companies that produce GPL incompatible software, like IBM, Sun (sans OpenOffice.org) etc... <Flammatory=on> Red Hat v. CentOS, etc... -- it's like being a Christian watching Cathlotics and Protestants argue their religious viewpoints in Northern Ireland. Because in the end, it's really about focusing on differences than similarities -- and it doesn't matter how close those similarities are, people can find differences if they want. Sorry for this political analogy, but it pretty much fits well. At least from my ignorant American viewpoint. </Flammatory> -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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Re: [CentOS] Vote For CentOS :)
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

From: Simon Perreault <nomis80(a)lqt.ca> > It does not give added value over RHEL in the distro itself. Be careful with that statement. ;-> Also remember that CentOS is more than just the RHEL distro. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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Triple /proc/net/stat/ip_conntrack files
by Maciej Żenczykowski 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

[root@tcs stat]# uname -a Linux tcs 2.6.9-5.0.5.ELsmp #1 SMP Wed Apr 20 00:16:40 BST 2005 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux [root@tcs stat]# pwd /proc/net/stat [root@tcs stat]# ls -al total 0 dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 . dr-xr-xr-x 5 root root 0 May 31 23:12 .. -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 arp_cache -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 ip_conntrack -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 ip_conntrack -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 ip_conntrack -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 ndisc_cache -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 3 18:51 rt_cache Anyone getting the above triplication? Cheers, MaZe

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Re: [CentOS] Re: opensource backup software suggestions please -- VTL option ...
by Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

From: Karanbir Singh <Mail-Lists(a)karan.org> > Which is a good thing really, since you can snip off the irrelevant bits > on your way down. Yes, I do it. But in my case, I've got to manually cut'n paste and add the greater-than signs. It gets tedious (especially on my Treo). But I do it because I believe in bottom-posting. > Gmail works fine. It sets the In-Reply-To: header. I am sure your move > to a more not-as-much-brain-dead client would be appreciated. Yeah, at least GMail would be better than this account. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org

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