[CentOS-devel] Is it possible to merge elrepo.org contribute to centos main repository?

Wed Feb 26 15:33:55 UTC 2014
Ljubomir Ljubojevic <centos at plnet.rs>

On 02/26/2014 02:55 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:31 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic <centos at plnet.rs> wrote:
>> My understanding is that nothing more then allowing Cloud people to work
>> in one/several SIG's will EVER going to change in CentOS, so there is no
>> point in even trying. Especially not for newbies/Desktops. CentOS distro
>> will remain user-unfriendly until Sun turns off, and as consequence it
>> will remain a distro of choice for RHEL admins and no one else. Sad but
>> fact of life. It has me thinking that one option is to ditch actual
>> CentOS and use something CentOS like, maybe SL or Russian ROSA, so if I
>> help someone I do not have to spill blood and waste time all the time. I
>> already lost many business opportunities by standing my ground in "I
>> only use CentOS", so I might even think about learning Debian way and
>> cover both Desktop and Server users with one knowledge and expertise.
> You are going to want packages on a desktop for media playing, etc.
> that won't ever be in EPEL because of policies that can't change.  So
> you might as well stat with ubuntu or mint.
>> Only way to make things easier for newbies/Desktop use is to create
>> repository that will have release info on all third party repositories,
>> so you give newbies instruction like
>> yum install http://<link to single release file>
>> yum install epel-release
>> yum install elrepo-release
>> etc.
> But here is the problem.  If you use more than epel and elrepo you
> have no assurance that the 3rd 3rd party repo will stay coordinated
> with epel (which you'll almost certainly need).   The more you add,
> the more chances there are for duplication of package names that
> aren't really the same packages or build.  And eventually you'll run
> into a conflict in updates or the update will pull in a version of
> something with surprising differences - and not having that kind of
> breakage is the main reason to start with CentOS in the first place.
> If you were advising someone else how to set up their first Centos
> box, think about how long that conversation has to be, and how strange
> it all seems that the repositories set up to help people do not stay
> coordinated with each other and thus are likely to eventually cause
> trouble.  Even ones that don't replace core packages don't track each
> other.

Is it better to have users COMPILE FROM SOURCE???? Because they f***ing DO!

Ultimately, responsibility lies on user. He is the owner of the system, 
and he will do what ever needs to be done. And since CentOS/RHEL does 
not provide MANY things (EPEL is 2 TIMES LARGER then Base + Updates 
repositories, and elrepo has 260 packages so at least 150 distinct 
drivers NEEDED by community).

So when one stupid newbie created blog entry explaining that CentOS does 
not have that package, so you need to recompile it, and gives you 
step-by-step howto, something is wrong. But when there is MORE such 
pages/blogs then "install it from 3rd party repository we wish not to 
name so there are no favorites...", then you have a HUGE problem. And 
solution is to REDUCE the number of problematic blogs/pages, not 
increase them doing absolutely nothing. "Prime directive" (Star Trek 
reference) is all excellent and shiny, but does not solve people getting 
burned anyway, and teaching others the wrong way in the process.

By the way, RepoForge is practically dead in the water so no need using 
it as EPEL vs Repoforge argument. If you were to create a poll on forums 
(2-3 weeks of announcement in advance would be enough to rally all for 
and against) where you would ask:

1) Do you agree that release packages for only EPEL and ElRepo 
repositories are provided, but not other repositories, I am guessing 
80-90% will vote yes, and you will have community approval as a basis 
for any question other repositories might raise.

I would be happy with something just resembling the CentOS name (DentOS. 
PentOS, ...), but on the same resources as CentOS (either using CentOS 
packages as a base or rebuilding it under another brand while building 
CentOS packages) so there is newbie-friendly version that allows 3rd 
party repositories. And I am guessing that this approach would mean most 
people would choose this enhanced version of CentOS over original 
CentOS, exactly because of out-of-the-box experience.

Maybe even "What is a proper way to do things" video that explains 
differences to other distro's for users that are coming from 
Ubuntu/Debian/Mint could help such transitions.

Also worth thinking about is rebuilding EPEL and ElRepo packages inside 
CentOS build system, so control is absolute that it will not mess up 

Ljubomir Ljubojevic
(Love is in the Air)
PL Computers
Serbia, Europe

StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant