[CentOS-devel] Wider conversation around process and delivery for the Cloud SIG

Fri Jan 24 16:33:40 UTC 2014
Mark McLoughlin <markmc at redhat.com>

Hi Karanbir,

I'm sorry I missed the office hours hangout, but I listened back over
most of the discussion.

I've been thinking a bit about RDO, CentOS and the Cloud SIG and wanted
to drop some thoughts here in case it helps the discussion.

The thing is - I'm hugely excited about the changes happening around
CentOS and think there are great opportunities here. That said, I want
to be realistic about what's likely to happen around CentOS and RDO in
the medium term.

So, what does the RDO maintenance team care about?

  - our focus is making a usable distro of vanilla OpenStack available
    on EL distros and persuade OpenStack users that EL is the best
    choice for running OpenStack than Ubuntu - i.e. we're talking about
    people who know they want (or want to try) OpenStack and we want to
    persuade them to use EL

  - our instinct would be to show EL as rock-solid in terms of
    performance and stability even if that's at the expense of newer
    features. To me, that means replacing as little of the base distro 
    as possible, especially the hypervisor bits. I'd be keen to make 
    zero or very few modifications to the EL kernel, qemu and libvirt.

  - to deliver RDO to date, we've been getting by using Fedora 
    infrastructure but it would probably be a big improvement if we 
    could switch over to CentOS infrastructure - e.g. koji, git, yum 
    repos, etc.

  - obviously there are other projects which aren't in the base OS that 
    can be very useful to RDO users - e.g. Open vSwitch, Open Daylight, 
    GlusterFS, Ceph, Docker, Xen, etc. If they were available through
    CentOS, we'd love to make it really easy for RDO users to use them.

  - as an opt-in "preview" variant of RDO on CentOS, it would be really 
    cool to have newer base OS features available for people to 
    experiment with - I'd expect this to be fairly rapidly moving and
    not recommended for real-world use, though. I could definitely 
    imagine the other IaaS projects having a similar need and some 
    shared maintenance happening there.

  - the difficulty with both of these is that - despite everyone's best 
    intentions - RDO maintainers aren't necessarily going to be able to
    make a tonne of time to help out with either of them. Keeping up 
    with OpenStack is enough of a challenge in itself.

  - I don't imagine RDO folks being terrifically interested in doing
    work to make OpenStack co-exist on the same system or in the same
    distro with other IaaS project, just because it's a tonne of work 
    and hard to imagine it helping users all that much. The "choose your
    own adventure" LiveCD idea does sound cool, but even that doesn't 
    necessarily require all projects to live together in the same repo.

So, to summarize - the main things of interest to RDO folks would
probably be:

  - using CentOS koji, git and yum repos to build, maintain and deliver

  - builds of CentOS images for RDO users to run in their guests

  - collaboration with other projects to experiment with and learn 
    about e.g. packaging with SCLs (either packaging the apps 
    themselves as SCLs, or just their dependency stacks)

  - re-using any work other SIGs do around packaging and maintenance of
    other projects which will be useful to RDO users

  - collaboration around the maintenance of a preview/experimental 
    variant which includes newer base OS features which are particularly
    interesting for IaaS projects

I guess I'm curious whether other projects which have an interest in the
Cloud SIG share a similar perspective?

For example, in the office hours chat I think there was an assumption
that all of our projects need newer kernels, libvirt and qemu whereas
I'd be worried about exposing RDO users to potential instability by
doing that.

Thanks in advance,

On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 15:41 +0000, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Hi guys, we are getting ready to kick this off. The URLS you need for
> viewers are :
> youtube:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKKYY_5SOWw
> and on google plus at https://plus.google.com/+CentOS
> For the participants, I have just sent out emails with the url, if you
> dont have it - please come and find me on #centos-devel on irc.freenode.net
> On 01/13/2014 09:56 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> > hi,
> > 
> > I'd like to invite everyone wanting to contribute to the Cloud SIG and
> > representing a project outside centos.org to come along for a chat on
> > google hangout at the CentOS OfficeHours 23rd Jan 2014 @ 16:00 UTC.
> > 
> > Because we only have a few slots for people to talk, I've shortlisted
> > these folks:
> > 
> > OpenStack: Mike Burns, Dave Neary, Rich Bowen
> > Eucalyptus: Greg DK
> > OpenNebula: Jaime Melis
> > CloudStack: Sebastien Goasguen
> > oVirt: Doron Fediuck
> > 
> > If you want to be on this list, please get in touch. If you are on this
> > list but cant make it at that date/time, please nominate someone else in
> > your place and let me know their email address so I can notify them of
> > the url to join.
> > 
> > This will be a video/audio session and will be publicly broadcast over
> > youtube/hangouts on air; the recording of the session will be available
> > immediately after. Bonus cookies for everyone who turns up in their
> > project tshirts!
> > 
> > You can see what time that is on your local timezone at this url :
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20140123T16&am=30
> > 
> > About the session:
> > - Plan on an hour
> > - Every project should do a few minutes worth of a pitch about what they
> > would like to see as a good first goal and a good longer term goal.
> > - We can then discuss delivery mechanis, and how the forward maintenance
> > of the projects payload is going to work ( essentially, workout how the
> > rpms will map to os/ and updates/ )
> > - Consider the workflow from git.centos.org ( KB to do a 5 min demo )
> > 
> > Regards,
> >