[CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:02 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org> wrote:

> On 10/12/2020 12:39, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 7:20 AM Josh Boyer <jwboyer at redhat.com
> > <mailto:jwboyer at redhat.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:40 AM Ljubomir Ljubojevic <centos at plnet.rs
> >     <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      > On 12/9/20 4:25 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
> >      > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:16 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org
> >     <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>
> >      > > <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>>> wrote:
> >      > >
> >      > >     On 09/12/2020 15:08, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
> >      > >     > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:59 AM Ljubomir Ljubojevic
> >      > >     <centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>
> >     <mailto:centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>>
> >      > >     > <mailto:centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>
> >     <mailto:centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>>>> wrote:
> >      > >     >
> >      > >     >     So when you remove binary compatibility, why would
> anyone
> >      > >     bother with
> >      > >     >     CentOS/RHEL unless they want a job in a company that
> >     pays for RHEL
> >      > >     >     support?
> >      > >     >
> >      > >     > What sort of binaries are you concerned about being
> >     incompatible?
> >      > >
> >      > >     Any kernel device drivers, for a start. Kind of critical if
> >     your
> >      > >     SAS/RAID device wont boot, or your network device doesn't
> >     come up, or
> >      > >     your GUI doesn't start because your display drivers aren't
> >     compatible
> >      > >     anymore. Just minor things like that maybe?
> >      > >
> >      > >
> >      > > OK, so out-of-tree drivers.  If those keep on working does that
> >     make
> >      > > CentOS Stream viable for your use?
> >      >
> >      > The problem we CentOS users have with "RHEL Stream" is "IF" it
> >     works. I
> >      > do not want to think about "IF". RHEL Stream is meant to
> constantly,
> >      > daily get packages and patches that are not yet tested, to BE
> >     tested on
> >
> >     This is actually not the case.  Today, our RHEL development model
> >     requires package updates to undergo testing before they are included
> >     in the distribution, even internally.  CentOS Stream will continue
> >     this trend as we upstream many of our RHEL CI workflows to Stream
> >     itself.
> >
> >      > users.  From RHEL Stream FAQ: "CentOS Stream is a distribution
> that
> >      > community members can use to take advantage of a stable ABI/API
> for
> >      > development and testing," DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING.
> >
> >     It would be disingenuous to say Stream won't have bugs.  All software
> >     development has bugs.  However, the "development and testing" part
> >     actually extends to the development and testing of the software *you*
> >     are developing.  Stream exists as a base for you to do your own
> >     development and testing.
> >
> >
> > *WE* aren't doing development and testing! We're running systems that
> > are trying to get work done. The whole POINT of CentOS was a recompile
> > of the Open Source parts of RHEL. A stable *Enterprise* level operating
> > system.
> >
> > Do you people not understand that??
> >
>
> Matthew,
>
> To be fair, this is the CentOS Devel list. Perhaps your comments would
> be better placed or more suited to the main CentOS mailing list, but
> this list exists specifically to discuss the development of CentOS. If
> you are not active in that, or do not want to participate, that's fine
> but stick to the users list which would be the correct list for you.
>
> Thanks
>
>
Fair point, although there has been a lot of cross-posting with
centos at centos.org on this thread.



>
> >
> >      > I do not have time to mess with "might work, might not" testing
> >     distro,
> >      > otherwise I would play on the sand with Fedora. RHEL clone is best
> >      > available option and in return for me using code prepared for
> >     RHEL I was
> >      > telling anyone who would listen how CentOS is great, for me
> >     better then
> >      > Debian/Ubuntu or other distro's. CentOS Facebook group has more
> >     members
> >      > then Fedora FB group, partially due to me posting ton of resource
> >     links
> >      > and how-to's and helping anyone who asked for help even if I had
> >     to look
> >      > for answer my self.
> >      > I do NOT have FAITH that Stream will be production ready, and I
> >     do not
> >      > have free time to experiment or check if it will work or not when
> >     I run
> >      > update, and that is only thing that matters. No amount of "do not
> >     worry"
> >      > will change my mind. As soon as it is crystal clear (I still
> >     hope) that
> >      > "CentOS Linux" is dead, I will stop advocating for CentOS,
> actually I
> >      > will start advocating AGAINST CentOS and look for alternatives,
> >     either
> >      > other clones or Debian.
> >      >
> >      > I will not respond to any more e-mails or tweets about this
> >     topic, there
> >      > is nothing more to be said except R.I.P CentOS :-(
> >
> >     I understand if you don't want to continue the conversation.  I do
> >     want to say that with CentOS Stream, we're committed to developing a
> >     stable and world class project that literally produces RHEL.  I hope
> >     in the future if you decide to revisit your OS choice that you take a
> >     moment and see what we're doing here.  I think you might find that
> >     we're working very hard to avoid the things you're concerned about,
> >     because we *need* to avoid those same things in RHEL anyway.
> >
> >     josh
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     CentOS-devel mailing list
> >     CentOS-devel at centos.org <mailto:CentOS-devel at centos.org>
> >     https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
> >     <https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *Matt Phelps*
> >
> > *Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*
> >
> > (Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)
> >
> > Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian
> >
> >
> > 60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138
> >
> > email: mphelps at cfa.harvard.edu <mailto:mphelps at cfa.harvard.edu>
> >
> >
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>
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-- 

*Matt Phelps*

*Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*

(Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)

Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian


60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138
email: mphelps at cfa.harvard.edu


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