On Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:52 AM, Julien Pivotto <roidelapluie at inuits.eu> wrote: > On 11 Feb 01:58, redbaronbrowser via CentOS-devel wrote: > > > Mike indicated to just wait "a few weeks" and we would see it available in some official way. It has been a few week and there is nothing. It is not clear if we see something at the beginning of March or if there will be additional reasons it won't be til April. It isn't clear if some git commits lumped multiple unrelated code into the same commit. It isn't even clear if we will ever get a break down of the Stream 8 kernel. But it doesn't matter, I have done the work that needs to be done and am requesting now to have someplace to post it. > > I understand what you mean, but I do not think that this forum can > answer this question. In Stream, "centos" and the centos project seems > to only provide the pipeline (and CI scripts). The content of the > packages seem to be just thrown over the wall by RHEL team. > > I hope RHEL engineers will join the same forums as the CentOS community > and really work in the open - then, someone with knowledge of the > current state of affairs could answer this question. Until then, I am > afraid you won't know a lot. Well, I still feel it is questions that are important to get on the record. IRC is a transient communication which was already used in the past to communicate concerns about CentOS governance under Red Hat. To claim the community never expressed concerns until recently does not fit reality. However, the claim does highlight the dangers of using a transient communication method. Also, as Brian Exelbierd has explained the need to kill CentOS 8 in a very blunt way: > "CentOS is a sponsored project, we are the funding agent and we happen to also be a heavy contributor. We have learned that open-source communities do well with independence. We let those governing bodies govern." The FAQ goes on to explain CentOS 8 is being terminated with no option for a SIG to continue it to force the community to focus on Stream. But how has it been the failure of the community to focus on Stream? >From September 2019 to November 11, 2020, the community has contributed nothing through gitlab because Red Hat has made it impossible to do so. After the November 11th meeting including the entire month of November, Red Hat has continued to make it impossible to to contribute using the resources of gitlab. In December when KW posted his blog post claiming CentOS could now be the Upstream and Red Hat has closed the openness gap, Red Hat still had made it impossible to contribute using gitlab. The entire month of January, the problem continued. It appears for the entire month of February the problem will continue. We are now 23% of the way from November 11th to the end of 2021. I'm willing to accept to keep funding we need to pull our own weight. I am not willing to accept we have been given the resources to have independence. I am also not willing to accept we will be given enough time between now and the end of the year to get Stream CD/CI to the point to encourage adoption. It helps to know what is being changes to the 4.18.0 kernel are being performed to best target what CD/CI tests should be written. To be as blunt as Brain Exelbierd, I believe Stream is being passively sabotaged such that the end result will eventually be that Red Hat will treat it as not worth funding after 2024. What exactly does Red Hat believe they have made available to us *today* for us to focus on Stream with the independence of being the Upstream? Or are they willing to admit we currently are functioning with our arms tied behind our back and that maybe weekly updates could smooth the transistion? Is there any itemized list on bringing Stream to independence and what level of progress has been made on those items? But getting placating via IRC (again) and having my concerns go into /dev/null just does not work for me. Even if this forum also won't get any answers, at least I haven't made the same mistake twice of failing to get them posted to some form of archive.