[CentOS-devel] Can CentOS Stream 8 Devel repo be populated

On 17/05/2021 20:46, Phil Perry wrote:
> On 17/05/2021 20:30, Johnny Hughes wrote:
>> On 5/17/21 1:46 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 1:34 PM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org
>>> <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      On 17/05/2021 18:49, Troy Dawson wrote:
>>>      >
>>>      >
>>>      > On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:41 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org
>>>      <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>
>>>      > <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>>> wrote:
>>>      >
>>>      >     On 17/05/2021 14:32, Troy Dawson wrote:
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      > On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 6:22 AM Fabian Arrotin
>>>      <arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>
>>>      >     <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>>
>>>      >      > <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>
>>>      <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>>>> wrote:
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      >     On 17/05/2021 15:10, Troy Dawson wrote:
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      > On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 6:47 AM Leon Fauster via
>>>      CentOS-devel
>>>      >      >      > <centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>
>>>      >     <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>>
>>>      >      >     <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>
>>>      >     <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>
>>>      >     <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org
>>>      <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>>>>
>>>      >      >     wrote:
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      >     On 15.05.21 06:51, Troy Dawson wrote:
>>>      >      >      >     > Back when the CentOS 8 Devel repo[1] was
>>>      originally
>>>      >      >     introduced, the
>>>      >      >      >     > CentOS Stream 8 Devel repo[2] was kept empty.
>>>      >      >      >     > Now that CentOS 8 is going away, and we are
>>>      expected to
>>>      >      >     develop on
>>>      >      >      >     > CentOS Stream 8, could we please get CentOS
>>>      Stream 8
>>>      >     Devel
>>>      >      >     populated
>>>      >      >      >     > with the same packages it once had.
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >      >     > I know there is an initiative for all the
>>>      missing -devel
>>>      >      >     packages to
>>>      >      >      >     > appear somewhere at sometime.  But here is my
>>>      problem.
>>>      >      >      >     > I'm trying to get KDE rebuilt for CentOS 
>>> Stream 8
>>>      >     due to the
>>>      >      >      >     updated qt5
>>>      >      >      >     > that is now in Stream.
>>>      >      >      >     > plasma-nm, a fairly important piece of KDE,
>>>      requires
>>>      >      >      >     > mobile-broadband-provider-info-devel which is
>>>      in the
>>>      >     Devel
>>>      >      >     repo.
>>>      >      >      >     >  From what I see, the fastest way to get
>>>      >      >      >     > mobile-broadband-provider-info-devel 
>>> somewhere
>>>      that
>>>      >     I can
>>>      >      >     consume
>>>      >      >      >     it on
>>>      >      >      >     > Stream is via the Devel repo.
>>>      >      >      >     > Thus my question.
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >      >     > Can we get CentOS Stream 8 Devel populated 
>>> with
>>>      >     whatever is
>>>      >      >     in the
>>>      >      >      >     > regular Devel repo.
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >      >     > Thanks
>>>      >      >      >     > Troy Dawson
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >      >     > [1] -
>>>      >      > 
>>> http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>
>>>      >      >
>>>       <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>
>>>      >      >
>>>       <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >
>>>       <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>
>>>      >      >
>>>       <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>
>>>      >      >
>>>       <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >     <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>>
>>>      >      >      >     > [2] -
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >
>>>       http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      >
>>>      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>
>>>      >      >
>>>      >
>>>      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >
>>>      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> 
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >
>>>      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> 
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >
>>>      
>>>  <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> 
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>
>>>      <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/
>>>      
>>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>>
>>>      >      >      >     >
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      >     JFI:
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      >     Downloads from koji instance allowed now.
>>>      >      >      > https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>
>>>      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>
>>>      >      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>
>>>      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>>
>>>      >      >      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>
>>>      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>
>>>      >      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>
>>>      >     <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/
>>>      <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>>>
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      > True, but that doesn't get them into the EPEL or
>>>      COPR build
>>>      >      >     environment.
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >      > Troy
>>>      >      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      >     Hi Troy,
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      >     As you're now part of the CentOS Stream team, when 
>>> can we
>>>      >     expect to see
>>>      >      >     that Devel repo being populated ? that would help 
>>> for now
>>>      >     SIGs building
>>>      >      >     in cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>
>>>      <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>>
>>>      >     <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>
>>>      <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>>> (and we have 
>>> also again
>>>      >      >     other requests for built but
>>>      >      >     unreleased pkgs in Devel repo, so having a status 
>>> update on
>>>      >     that one
>>>      >      >     would be good too)
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      > Well played good sir.
>>>      >      > Unfortunately I only deal with the CentOS Stream 9 stuff,
>>>      but I will
>>>      >      > bring it up in the team meeting.
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      > I wrote this email on the centos-devel mailing list, as 
>>> an EPEL
>>>      >     package
>>>      >      > maintainer, that has a problem.  Because my EPEL work is
>>>      done in my
>>>      >      > spare time, and it's a legitimate EPEL packager problem.
>>>      And I'd
>>>      >     like
>>>      >      > the solution to be public, and not behind closed doors.
>>>      >      >
>>>      >      > Troy
>>>      >      >
>>>      >
>>>      >     I'm not sure I understand why this is even an issue anymore.
>>>      Now CentOS
>>>      >     Stream is upstream of RHEL, surely there are no 
>>> constraints to
>>>      only
>>>      >     ship
>>>      >     what RHEL (downstream) ships? Why wouldn't CentOS Stream
>>>      simply ship
>>>      >     everything and if RHEL decides upon a policy to only
>>>      ship/support a
>>>      >     certain subset of (-devel) packages, that is a RH/RHEL
>>>      decision that
>>>      >     can
>>>      >     be implemented downstream by removing the bits they don't 
>>> want to
>>>      >     ship/support and should have zero impact upstream? RH/RHEL 
>>> are
>>>      free to
>>>      >     do whatever they want downstream.
>>>      >
>>>      >     Or have I completely misunderstood the relationship here?
>>>      >
>>>
>>>      Hi Troy,
>>>
>>>      >
>>>      > Actually, you understood it correctly.
>>>      >
>>>      > It seems an email got misplaced.  When it was announced that 
>>> CentOS
>>>      > Stream 9 koji build system, including the buildroot, was now
>>>      publically
>>>      > available, there was also supposed to be a similar announcement
>>>      > concerning CentOS Stream 8.  For some reason, that announcement
>>>      failed
>>>      > to get sent.
>>>      >
>>>      > So, you are correct, there currently is a way for the EPEL
>>>      community (or
>>>      > COPR, or whoever wants) to get access to the CentOS Stream 8 
>>> build
>>>      > system and complete  buildroot.  I simply was not aware of it.
>>>      >
>>>
>>>      Except, as you stated earlier in the thread, they are not in the 
>>> CentOS
>>>      Stream repos, so it is still not possible to easily pull them into
>>>      build
>>>      environments.
>>>
>>>      I believe your question is valid. Why are these packages being 
>>> excluded
>>>      from CenOS Stream in the first place? I understand why they are
>>>      excluded
>>>      from CentOS Linux 8, as that is a like for like rebuild of RHEL 
>>> 8, and
>>>      what is not in RHEL will not be in CentOS Linux. But CentOS 
>>> Stream is
>>>      upstream of RHEL, not downstream, so I do not understand why ANY 
>>> built
>>>      devel packages are excluded from the CentOS Stream repos. Why 
>>> would you
>>>      not ship everything you build??? RHEL policy decisions should not
>>>      affect
>>>      what happens upstream.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is mostly because we also don't ship it in RHEL and we don't ship
>>> it there because we don't want to be on the hook to support it (even
>>> RHEL has a budget and limited resources).
>>>
>>> As far as CentOS Stream, the promise is that if it runs in CentOS Stream
>>> today it should run in the next version of RHEL.  By including content
>>> in Stream that we don't include in RHEL, suddenly that promise is broken
>>> if someone accidentally uses it assuming it's in RHEL.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying there aren't ways to work through these issues, but I
>>> wanted to give some ideas as to the thought process that got us here.
>>>
>>>             -Mike
>>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> That is all well and good .. but it is your guys (EPEL and Red Hat SIGs)
>> that need this Development content to be in CentOS Stream and the CentOS
>> Community Build System to build things.  (I can build things as this
>> content is already in my Koji buildroot).
>>
>> And it is me, this list, and the CentOS Stream group that keep getting
>> asked (by EPEL and the RH SIGs) why this open source stuff can not be in
>> CentOS Linux, CentOS Stream and the CBS.
>>
>> Surely we can set up a non RHEL released repo that your guys can use to
>> build the things that they want.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Johnny Hughes
> 
> 
> But from what Mike just said, EPEL/SIGs should be building against those 
> missing -devel packages on Stream because anything built on Stream must 
> also run on RHEL?
> 

Sorry, typo - EPEL/SIGs should NOT be building against those missing 
-devel packages...