On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 5:39 PM Stephen John Smoogen <smooge at gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 at 16:18, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brian Stinson <brian at bstinson.com> wrote: > > > > > The discussion about the interpretation of the EOL announcement is a good one, we should keep that going. The Devel repo is a slightly different topic though. > > > > > > If you remember how the Devel repo was meant to work, it was meant to contain -devel packages that we've accepted into one of the core repos in the middle of a minor-release: https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS8/UnshippedPackages > > > > Your description does not match the Wiki you cite, which says > > *nothing* about "-devel" packages, only about "packages". And the > > concept of "accepted into the core repos" is a very peculiar one when > > the "quota-devel" repo is used for compiling critical system tools > > like "samba-client-libs", which in turn is woven into sssd. That.... > > messed with my work on Samba. I strongly dislike having to work my way > > around this by a different means once a year, and I hope that the > > "Devel" repo will never be needed again. > > > > I am saying the below as the person who spent a year lobbying for the > Devel repo and now the cause of this ruckus. When EPEL was getting > started, we needed various packages which were not in Code Ready > Builder/Powertools. Adding them to Code Ready Builder takes time and > could be delayed for various reasons. The CentOS koji was not able to > handle large amounts of download traffic and so was not available. In > the end, a compromise was worked out where various packages were hand > pulled out of koji and put in a devel repo which could allow for those > EPEL packages to get the headers needed. Something seems to be missing. Someone, at some point, decided to publish the "quota" package into the kickstart and base repos. Someone, at the same time, elected to exclude quota-devel. That's not "these are pending release", that's putting it "on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”.' I appreciate your chaining up the leopard, but that doesn't explain why the plans for destroying Arhur Dent's house weren't upstairs with the rest of the plans for the highway bypass or in this case why "quota" and "quota-devel" weren't published side-by-side. > The hackiness of this should have been obvious over the fact that > after 8.3 came out the Devel repo still had old packages for a long > time. The same after 8.4 came out and it was empty until a rebuild > caused the need to get some items in it. With the end of CentOS Linux > in ~40 days, relying on someone to hand-populate the repo for a short > period makes no sense. Instead, I would highly recommend that people > either: Then *that* is broken. Deleting or discarding packages from a repo should trigger a createrepo_c, as should the initial creation of a directory in which a repo will reside. Creating repodata for an empty repo is petty fast and I'd not expect it to be a significant burden on build tools. > 1. Try to work out a way to have the package in EPEL using the better > method Troy is using versus my hack > 2. Use Alma or Rocky Devel repo as they are fairly complete and will > be supported after 2021-12-31. I may do so: but I'm not in a huge rush until one of them is better settled. I may tweak my tools after CentOS 8.5 is designated, but I'm ready to take on another RHEL platform. I was doing some work towards an Amazon Linux compatible fully enabled Samba 4.15.1: The CentOS 8 and Fedora published versions apparently using the "not-yet-ready-for-producton" Kerberos 5 integration, I checked with Andrew Bartlett about that last week. > 3. If (and only if) this works for your deployed workload, use the > CentOS Stream method outlined by Brian Stinson. > > [I understand nearly everyone's pain on this.. and my apologies for > paving this part of the road to Heck with my good intentions.] *Yeech*. Now that quota has a matching quota-devel in the primary repos, as I think it should have always had, I don't have this particular issue. I much prefer to do my development in mock, rather than koji, since that allows me a great deal of debugger access to the build environments and easier local regression testing on resources I've paid for. But I'll keep this in mind if this issue comes up again.