On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Preston Crawford <me at prestoncrawford.com> wrote: >> BTW, you just did it again, pointing out that that was only >> one small portion of your illustrious career. > > The thing is, if you're going to demonize my statements as > what they were not, then damn yes, I'm going to point out > that your attempts to belittle me are in grave error. ???? That's a tad grandiose, don't you think? "grave error"? "belittle me"? I was simply stating that you didn't need to back up your statements about software development (which I found to be correct, for the record) with a running list of your accomplishments. I was trying to be helpful in pointing out that in your effort to "win" you were drowning out your own solid arguments. > So just don't do it. There is no reason to. If you don't > want me to respond, then don't make an issue in the first > place. Think about that. ???? >> It comes off as arrogant, at least to me. > > Your questioning comes off as argumentative because you're > reading my comments not as I intended them. I don't know why > you did it, but you did it. So damn yes, if you're going to It doesn't matter what you intended. I'm just telling you how it came off. To me at least. > make a big deal about it ... > LET'S MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT! All caps? Are we going to rumble or something? Because I gave that up a long time ago. >> Your points should stand on their own feet. If people > don't >> get it, then what's the point? > > The point is that you read into what I said. What I was for > the sake I the fact I knew where someone was coming from. I > know his plights as a developer. Then just say that. No need to back it up with reams of evidence. I agreed with your points, largely. However, when I see them presented as you did I don't see the points as much as I see someone trying to win an argument with someone by trying to say THEY know more, THEY'RE more experienced, therefore THEY'RE correct. Don't you see how it could be taken that way? >> Except you just did it again. :-) > > Because you read into it! If you don't read into it, then we > don't have this issue! Again, I do _not_ flaunt my > credentials on-list. Your interpretation of what you > perceive is the problem, _not_ mine! Right, but that's kind of the whole point of communication, right? To communicate? And when you list your credentials you may not think you're flaunting them, but when it comes in the context of an argument and you do it over and over again it's more likely perception might change. >> You don't want to flaunt your credentials, but then say if >> you did you could get "rediculous". > > Yes, because _you_ made the "big deal" about it. > > It's like if I bump you and you turn around and scream > everyone that I hit you. I could easily hit you with full > effect, but I decide to just shouve you and say "don't start, > I could really hit you if I wanted." ???? > So don't go there. _You_ are instigating this for whatever > reasons you have. I won't speculate and it's not my point to > speculate. I'm just saying do _not_ accuse me of flaunting > my resume. I say this with all due respect, sir. But when you attack someone very vociferously as you have done... "Don't go there", etc. And when you start to toss out conspiracy theories that I may be out to get you or something, when I just read your first post a couple days ago, there's a hint for you that you may be arguing too aggressively. That's the point I was trying to make, with humor I might add. And you've just gone off over it. >> Or maybe that should be "ridiculous", I was an English > major >> after all, I wrote some pretty sweet papers. Whether >> my extremely awesome command of spelling is the issue, >> isn't really the issue. The issue is the irony of what >> you said. > > The irony is in that _you_ made a "big deal" about what I > said. Now you make more of a big deal. You are hoping I > just "flaunt my resume" so you can go, "ah ha!" Not really. I have no agenda. I barely post on this list. I don't know you, except what you've said. I agree with your point of view. I just don't see the way you're trying to make your points as being very productive on this list. > I have dealt with baiters like yourself for years. Your > problem is yours, not mine, and I don't do the list any > service by giving into what you want. I'm not a "baiter". Why would I bait you? Why would I care? I use CentOS to check email, surf the web and do Java/DB/Ruby development. What do I care what you say here, other than suddenly the list went from pretty mellow to pretty aggressive, for no reason. >> Or what I just said. Nevermind... > > >> Yes. And those can stand alone from the resume part. > > Dude, I was trying to give the guy an idea of where I was > coming from based on his responses. You can't start > criticizing me without looking at all the context and > statements involved. > > You want to pick out portions of what I said for some sort of > issue you have. I don't know what to tell you but forget > about it. I have no issue. My initial post was a humorous jab trying to point out that your argument would have been every bit if not more clear minus all the resume bullet points. >> That's fine. I was just trying to add levity to the >> discussion. > > No, you are reading into what I was saying. I was trying to > let the gentleman know that I knew exactly where he was > coming from. Right, which was a point of higher authority than he. > There is a difference between confidence and cockiness. You > are trying to paint me as cocky. I was not, I re-read what I I'm not going to say anything, lest you go ALL CAPS on me again. > said, and it was not my intent. If you feel it came off that > way, then you deal with it. Sometimes I tire of explaining > myself when there are _others_ around who are no better than > I, if not worse. > > In other words, I bumped you and you want to make a big deal > about it and say I hit you. Well, this is a little shouve to > let you know, I don't care what you do, I'm not hitting you. > You can try to entice me all you want, but I'm not going to. Hitting, bumping, shoving? Why so aggressive? We're just having a discussion, right? Not fisticuffs? >> This is a mailing list that by and large is >> very pleasant. CentOS is a very pleasant distro. It just >> works, well. I pointed out earlier how I tried Ubuntu and >> had problems with the distro. Same with Fedora Core 4. It >> crashed on install. And visit #freebsd on a GOOD night and >> you're likely to witness some pretty surly behavior. >> CentOS isn't like that. The community is practical and nice >> and reallypretty much focused on using the distro to get >> stuff done. It's an island in the Linux world, IMHO. > > So what are you asserting here? > Is this you dancing around something you want to say? > Or just the hope that I'm paranoid? I'm asserting that this list has been pretty mellow until recently. Nothing more. >> Relatively shielded from arguments about >> licensing, good and evil, etc. >> So the flaunting...? I found it both annoying and funny. > > Dude, no offense, but there are a _lot_ of people who could > flaunt things here. When people bring up their background in > the context of understanding where someone else is coming > from, I don't see other people getting jumped on. I'm sure there are. I'm not one of them either and guess what? I don't care. We all have things to be proud of in career or in life. I've just never somone use their experience in an argument to the extent you did. Sorry, I just found it a little aggressive. Especially when your argument was sound by itself. >> You can send me your resume, but I'd rather not read it >> here, nor in my inbox. > > What don't you understand about "off-line"? Oh, that's > right, you're interested in being argumentative, not actually > caring what I said, or what you think I said, but more of > what you want to demonize into what I said. No, actually. You might want to re-read your paranoid line up above, though, because you're being paranoid. > This is precisely why I started helping people off-list, and > I think I'm definitely going to go back to it. It's one > thing to dislike me because I'm verbose, but don't start > inventing stuff. I didn't invent anything. I told you how I perceived you given how you posted. > Deal with whatever problem you have with me that you want to > pin on me in front of the whole group. Regardless of > whatever justification you think you have, that's _exactly_ > what you did. Listen, I'm sorry if I offended you, but you're really taking this far too seriously. No one is going to check this mailing list for references for a future job. Unless you're actually Judge Roberts and you're up for a Supreme Court nomination hearing, I don't think anyone is going to drill down to find the posts here. You're safe. I haven't done anything to harm you. Relax. I didn't mean any offense. I was simply trying to make a point. We've obviously gone far afield of that point, so do what you feel you have to. But don't blame me for "smearing" you or whatever damage you think I have done. Preston