On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 23:53 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: > Yes, I know the history - I just have a knee-jerk reaction when > someone says they upgrade frequently and never have problems. It > really just means they weren't using any of the features that > changed or went away. And I understand that. Unfortunately, to me, that comes off as applying a double-standard. A lot of things people are complaining about with Fedora Core were the same complains with Red Hat Linux prior. > Except that it still isn't fixed now that it easily could be. If > you want CIPE in Fedora >1 or Centos 4, you have to recompile > the kernel to make it work. Do you know how many things are changed in Linux 2.6 and, therefore, break things? Again, not applicable because they affect more than just Fedora Core 2. Ahem, e.g. (first Google hit -- I could probably find a better one, I watched the SuSE Linux 9.1 development as well as Fedora Core 2): http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/archive/suse/security/2004/11/msg00041.html SuSE Linux 9.1 switched to kernel 2.6, and had the same problems. A compatible CIPE version did not come out until after it had been released as well. > OpenVPN is probably better these days but that's not included either > and unlike a lot of other packages, for this one you have to > coordinate any changes across locations. We could argue "what's included" until we're blue in the face. The reality is that Red Hat, SuSE and most distros maintain lineage as best as the can, and they don't drop something unless it's not supported or a "Really Bad Idea." It looks like Red Hat tried to make CIPE work as best as it could on all kernels leading up to the release with 2.6.5, but after other people had the same issues, it really wasn't worth the bother considering all the security issues it had as well. I'm sure that's what finally broke the Camel's back. Many times Red Hat has dropped something to offer it again later. But I do think they need to warn us when they change a lot of things. E.g., UW IMAP got replaced with Dovecot, but man was it ultra-buggy really until Fedora Core 3 was in test (I just built the latest UW IMAP). A little ".0" would have helped warn us of all the massive changes from Fedora Core 2. Luckily I saw the ABI change (GCC and GLibC) as well as kernel, and treated it exactly like a new version, .0 revision, and held off. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith at ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;->