Just to answer the aspect of why people in IRC tell you to go to a mailing list – because mailing list answers are more permanent that IRC, and also, it spreads the knowledge of the question, and the answer over a much wider time frame rather than just the two to three sentences that are involved in fixing your situation. It also notifies the mailing list which is generally watched by the devs/patchers/genius(is)/workaround guys/people from other distros/generally smart people – who could probably help you work through the problem, or at least direct you to a page that can. These days people treat IRC like a street market for info, there are no rules other than do not paste more than 3 lines! (pastebin is your friend) and you can say what you like to who you like, and log off, without so much as contributing to the community. … At least by coming to the mailing list, or at least searching the archives, the effort that had previously been exerted to answer the question the first 20 times on the mailing list, will not be wasted. IRC has been around for a long time, but unless the irc server is irc.(project domain name here).org then expect it to be staffed by volunteers and people who may not have the same focus as yourself. IRC is just one of a number of resources. It a good spot for instant relief, (think street hooker), but the mailing list is your wife! *disclaimer* I do not advocate the use of street hookers, nor do I discriminate/have any negative feeling towards against those who do, or indeed are ☺ - I just wanted to make a point! I think I made my point, all the resources are out there on the web, this is open source, we don’t pay for it, be glad with the system that has actually managed to evolve given the fact the only incentive has been to pass on knowledge. --- Latest Article :- The Puppet Module Tool The Puppet Apprentice :- http://puppetnewbie.blogspot.com Follow me on twitter :- http://twitter.com/mritguru Puppet #tags on twitter :- #puppet #puppetforge IRC :- itguru ON irc.freenode.org (feel free to say hi!)