On 08/10/10 21:50, Brunner, Brian T. wrote: > > Too long, don't read. It's mostly YMMV (religious) anyways. > >> The main thing about Linux that is 'hard' is the fact that >> you have to use your brain and make choices: >> Which web browser? > > We have this same question under Windows. My answer is "all of them, > why not?" > Some of the web sites I have need to visit only work on Internet > Exploder (ms update), some only work on FireFox (my favorite game site), > many are only tolerable in Opera because of *their* addiction to flash > hits *my* allergy to flash. Opera's content blocking is a God-Send. > >> Which office suite? > > Unfortunately all of them fail at full compatibility with MSWorks; > that's the Gold Standard. > >> Which email client? > > This is not trivial. Content compatibility with Office and other "of > course you want embedded content in email" senders is a field of study > in itself. My email client (Forte Agent) is horrible at handling > embedded content. I'm also almost never bothered by trojans such as > have clobbered my kids' and wife's systems (1 in 10 years, and that was > when my son 'borrowed' my system). > >> Which desktop? > > Which one is most like WinXP? This is the question that keeps Linux off > of desktops. > Retraining people to a different way to drive is non-trivial also. > >> Which Linux distro? > > Why is there more than one? > A Century ago there were ZILLIONS of things for chest > colds/flu/pneumonia/bronchitis. In 1955 there were like 3... Sulfa, > penicillin, and erythromycin. What happened to the others? They didn't > work, so as soon as something came along that just worked, the others > turned to dust of no more than historical value. Today there are a > zillion flavors/distributions of Linux ... And one flavor of Windows. > It tastes terrible until compared to the competition (speaking in behalf > of everybody I personally know). > >> For lots of people this is way too much work. > > Or it's too much work for their boss or their spouse (but I repeat > myself) ... Many/most people don't play with computers for a hobby OR > for a job, they want it to Just Work so they can get their work/play > DONE. If I could find a version of Linux that Just Worked for my > machine, my wife's machine, and our software suites, I'd jump. > >> I guess if these >> people looked at, say, cars or clothes the same way they >> looked at computers, they would ALL be driving boring black >> Chevys or would have a closet with 100 black suits, 100 black >> ties, 100 white shits, etc. (Well maybe 100 black T shirts >> and 100 pairs of jeans.) > > NOT. They'd all be wearing something they pull off a hanger in a store, > or drive off a lot, utterly dependent on some foreign manufacturer's > sense of fashion and function. Oh, wait ... > > If clothes were like Linux ... Think artfully/randomly placed patches of > duct-tape on some home-made follow-the-pattern-and-hope-it-works > abominations. YMMV. > > I have CentOS 5.5 on my "other drive" which I (almost) never boot > because "wine /path/to/WoW/installdir/Wow.exe -opengl" doesn't Just > Work. > > Wine didn't Just Work with Diablo, or Tetris either. Others got it > working, I know; I've been odd man out for a decade. So's my wife, both > my folks, most of my kids, and all my neighbors. We Linux desktop users > are a small fringe because of what has been called "having to take > thought". > > <QUOTE=Akemi Yagi>The DKMS version of Nvidia driver at rpmforge is not > being actively maintained and will be deprecated in favor of > kmods.</QUOTE> > Another reason Linux is on the fringe ... The drivers and interfaces > change too much too often. > >>> Them's my $0.04 (inflation, ya know...). > > Got mole problems? Call Avogadro! 602-1023. > > ******************************************************************* > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please > notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this > email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. > www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated** > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > You do have some points there I'll admit. However, for a few things you've mentioned are actually slowly (but surely) being solved. Lets take Wine for example (The application, not the drink). For many years it's always essentially been "The Program will work... However, you may need to put on this dll override, disable alsa enable pulseaudio, make program run in a virtual desktop and apply a No-CD patch etc (Depending on the program)" now for many people this could be far to complicated and make them just say "You know what? stuff it I'll just go use Windows" But we now have an application called "PlayOnLinux" which is handy for new users (or experienced, saved me a bunch of time.. lol) which essentially is the "click and go" what their used to, and for experienced users it still allows you to install anything and manually edit settings. However, wine still doesn't make all "Windows" programs work sadly. But that leads to the other problem of installing applications.. most people don't (want to) know how to open up a terminal, and run commands to go install a package, or grab it from a URL import the gpg key of the repository etc. They want to just click it, click next a few times and be done with it (Like everything on Windows). But, if you check out recent Fedora's that's almost possible, though still requested to enter password, but I think that's a *good* thing. But (Jeez, I could call this the "But" email..) we have yet another problem as previously mentioned.. Choices Choices Choices, how do you make so many choices? As you said, most people just want it to "work" and be done with it. But technically a default install of a Linux distribution do "Just work" minus various codecs and sometimes hardware driver issues. But, you can't tell me, that on *every* windows machine, no ones ever had to go hunt down drivers for their hardware and install them (or use a provided CD) I know I have before (ever tried that with a machine with a Network adapter driver not detected, and no spare machine at the time? :| not fun) Same thing with Linux sometimes, and on Windows not *all* programs are pre-installed and ready to go, for example, you can't go out, buy Windows 7, and start using office applications, you got to then go out and buy MS Office, and install it your self, essentially the same thing with Linux (Except you got to use OO.o, wine or whatever suits your preference) Now, codecs is a common issue people find with Linux and the common question is "Why doesn't MP3 just work like on Windows?!" but contrary to popular belief, MP3 doesn't just "Always work" on Windows like they claim, I had a virtual machine, that had no Network connection what-so-ever, I put a MP3 on it to test, guess what? it had no MP3 codec, going through the settings I found an option "Download Codecs on first run" or something to that extent, which means they wasn't included with the OS (WinXP SP3) which isn't that different from Linux, except you got to add repository's and install a whole bunch of programs. That I do agree is a slight problem for new comers, maybe someday it will be fixed, but I doubt it. As for things being updated "too often" this is where the "EL" class of OS's come in.. (albeit the EL series is quite old now and is missing quite a lot of new stuff, that is till EL6 gets here) but in a way I like my OS to be updated more often, as I like having the latest features and what not :-). Personal preference there though. But personally, I don't think Linux is for everybody, nor will it ever be. People aren't willing to learn, and this is where the problem lies when it comes to OS migration, that and the fact we tend to "get used" to things, and it becomes what we're used to, and we don't want it to change. Compared to a Linux from pre-2000 Linux is a *lot* more user friendly now also. The other problem people have, is that when they try Linux they tend to go with an attitude of subconsciously wanting it not to work so they can say it's crap and go back to Windows.. But it's far from perfect. Give it another 5 years and I personally think Linux will be easy enough for "most" people to use. After-all if my 75 year old Grandma is quite happily using a machine I set up for her with Fedora 12, it can't be THAT hard, as she doesn't know squat about computers (Mainly music, card games & email is all she uses) :-) As for Market Share.. I threw in my vote.. I personally am not to worried about market shares of Linux. We are not a Corporation or Company.. so why should it matter? :-| Anyhow, just my 2p :-) PS: Sorry for the short email, in a rush. :-) -- Jake