On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 15:00 +0100, Always Learning wrote: > In the example I mentioned, it was a specially created single purpose > email SMTP address (no POP etc.) used just once about 5? months ago. It > is easy for me to block it as the mail server (MTA Mail Transfer Agent) > which I have done. An address can get snagged once after a single use and spammed months later. Creating a plethora of special use email accounts is, in my opinion, simply too much effort when the original design of email was to create a public address that anyone can contact the owner through. > We are no so liberal with mailboxes. Some can be accessed only by prior > approved senders. Others, because they are single purpose email > addresses, can be permanently blocked after the first unwanted email. > Some email addresses are created with sub-domains that can be dropped at > the first abuse then replaced by new sub-domains. Getting too creative with email protections reduces the primary functionality it was invented to provide. > > The difference between deposit/fetch and send/receive is profound. This > > is part of why I'm surprised that newsreaders and forums have fallen > > from favor amongst technical discussion groups. The "Logging into forums > > is a PITA" or "setting up another client is a PITA" arguments obviously > > won the debate -- though I think spam is a lot deeper into PITA > > territory than either at the present time. > > The problems with forums are, in my personal opinion:- > > (1) Spyware : logging every access with Google the USA's international > spying operation. Mailing lists do not avoid this (if they do, please explain how), particularly now that Google has people using its own parallel DNS service (!o!) and runs infrastructure that most of these tech mailing lists touch at some point. At this point I doubt that there is a message sent that doesn't touch or at least bounce toward a Google-owned server somewhere. > (2) Advertisements On a bad forum, yes. On good ones, no. The advertising thing is ridiculous and a symptom of our community not realizing how easy it is to self-host forums for free (or newsgroups -- but more on that later). > (3) tiny text difficult to read On bad forums, maybe. I haven't been to a site I found difficult to read, come to think of it, but I'm sure there are some administrators out there who don't understand the concepts of usability. Anyway, you can generally control your mail display settings and forums would present a potentially mixed bag unless the community settled on a rough standard, so I can see your point here. > (4) Pop-up windows On unbearably crap forums, maybe. I've never experienced this (Firefox always saved me or there just were never pop ups? No idea), but if any official project decided to use forums as a primary communication means and put not just ads, but *pop-up ads* on their site -- wow... > (5) Layout not conducive to easy and quick reading. The free-form layout of mailing lists (top/bottom/mid posting all mishmashed) is far less conducive to organized eye movements, in my experience. Obviously, you and I may have adapted differently, though I find neither difficult. > (6) Having to visit a web site and then log-on if one wants to respond. I keychain the logins (I think most browsers have a function like this now -- I think even elinks does, and elinks is a great way to browse forums, btw) and don't worry too much with it after that. I find this to be a *lot* less trouble than twisting my email setup into something email was never intended to be. > Conversely:- > > Email Lists are quick, easy, immediate (certainly for my set-up), > require no extra effort. Should the address get spammed, then its one > quick and simple change:- > > (a) replacement DNS sub-domain > > (b) update Mailman > > (c) change email address in email client. Again, far too much trouble. So... what is wrong with newsreaders? In my experience the provide all the benefits of email (speed, uniform interface, etc.) that you listed as well as all the benefits of a post/fetch paradigm that I get from forums without any of the hassles of either. That we aren't communicating through a newsgroup has always been puzzling to me for the exact reasons that you and I both listed. If we were to design a new protocol to solve both problems it would likely turn out to be very like newsgroups -- yet we don't use them and they exist and are easy to set up. Anyway, interesting response. Cheers. -Iwao