[CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

Tue May 17 01:46:52 UTC 2011
Brian Mathis <brian.mathis+centos at betteradmin.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Ron Blizzard <rb4centos at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Brian Mathis
>> The constant "drip drip drip", as you put it, is generated from the
>> disrespect shown to the users, not the other way around.  Anyone who
>> asks how much longer or how they can help is immediately slapped down
>> and told to go away.
> Bullcrap. I've seen the same old droning by the same posters for at
> least a year now. It's not "constructive criticism" it's whining. When
> the developers tell you that adding more and more work will slow (not
> speed) CentOS development, they probably know what they're talking
> about. You think?
>> The understanding that's missing from the Devs and sycophants is that
>> is met with nothing but derision and accusations of being constant
>> freeloading whiners.
> When all I see is constant whining, and empty "threats" to move to
> another distribution, what else can I conclude except that whiners
> will be whiners. If you suggest something, and it's rejected (for
> whatever reason) it's no longer "constructive criticism" to keep
> droning on about it. I don't see "concern," I see whining.
>> As for appreciating the developers, that is what all of the posts
>> complaining about the process are about.  People complain they can't
>> help.  People complain they can't do anything.  People complain that
>> when they ask, they are shut out instead of welcomed in.  All of this
>> comes from a desire to help the project.
> No, what *some* users whine about is that they can't control the
> process. They're miffed because their "great" suggestions are
> rejected. I realize that I'm probably lumping all complainers into the
> same category -- sorry but I'm fed up with the constant drip, drip,
> drip. At the very least let the developers get out from under the
> workload before offering yet more "constructive criticism."
>> The sycophants simply unable to have any real discussion.  Those with
>> criticisms have valid ones, but the responses do not actually address
>> the problems -- they just ignite the flames.  Anyone making personal
>> attacks like calling people whiners or crybabies are really the ones
>> causing the problem here, because there is no hope of ever making
>> those constructive.
> "Ignite the flames?" Right. When I come here I see whining. I see
> complaints about the time required to rebuild CentOS. I see myself
> called a "sycophant" for defending the developers. But I'm the one
> "igniting the flames." What a pant load.
>> While the "whiners" my not have done anything to help, what have the
>> "supporters" done?  Any one of them could start digging in to the
>> available and possibly back-channel information to have something to
>> supply other than calling people names.  Surely working to get that
>> information out to users would stop these constant email chains more
>> constructively than the name-calling?  So I guess anyone not doing
>> that is also a freeloading leech?
> We "supporters" (like he quotes, by the way) don't see the huge
> "problem" the "concerned" constantly yammer on about. We appreciate
> all the hard work and realize that CentOS is not Red Hat and that, if
> we absolutely have to have the newest releases immediately, we can go
> with the "upstream."
> Good thing the "concerned" don't engage in "name calling" like the us
> "sycophants."
> --
> RonB -- Using CentOS 5.6

People don't complain just for the fun of it (if that's the world you
live in, I feel sorry for you), they complain because something is
bothering them.  In this case, it is the very real and measurable
delays in releases that seem to be getting longer.  Release delays are
an incontrovertible fact in this case, and anyone arguing otherwise
needs their logic unit replaced.

The case becomes even stronger given that, as you say, people have
been complaining for "at least a year now".  That shows a long term
pattern of the same issue coming up over and over and bothering
people.  There really can be no stronger case that is supported by
both logic and evidence that there is a problem.  It has been
mentioned in numerous blog posts, twitter posts, and tech magazines.

Given that the issue is so clear, it adds insult to insult when
someone asks about it and is treated like the problem doesn't exist.
Suggestions given by people are rejected flat out not because they
don't like the suggestion, but by countering that the problem doesn't
exist.  This is what's so inflammatory and causes so many flame wars.
Having a constructive discussion is derailed most frequently not by
the complainers, but by the "if-you-don't-like-it-get-off-my-lawn"s.

// Brian Mathis