J Martin Rushton wrote: > On 17/11/15 17:29, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: >> On 17.11.2015 17:51, m.roth at 5-cent.us wrote: >>> Nick Bright wrote: >>>> On 11/17/2015 8:18 AM, James B. Byrne wrote: >>>>> This behaviour is congruent with SELinux. One utility adjusts >>>>> the permanent configuration, the one that will be applied at >>>>> startup. Another changes the current running environment >>>>> without altering the startup config. From a sysadmin point of >>>>> view this is desirable since changes to a running system are >>>>> often performed for empirical testing. Leaving ephemeral >>>>> state changes permanently fixed in the startup config could, >>>>> and almost certainly would eventually, lead to serious >>>>> problem during a reboot. Likewise, immediately introducing a >>>>> state change to a running system when reconfiguring system >>>>> startup options is just begging for an operations incident >>>>> report. It may not be intuitive to some but it is certainly >>>>> the logical way of handling this. >>>> >>>> I certainly don't disagree with this behavior. >>>> >>>> What I disagree with is documented commands _*not working and >>>> failing silently*_. >>>> >>> I agree, and it seems to be the way systemd works, as a theme, as >>> it were. I restart a service... and it tells me *nothing* at all. >>> I have to run a second command, to ask the status. I've no idea >>> why it's "bad form" to tell me progress, and final result. You'd >>> think they were an old New Englander..... >> <snip> >> binary returning a code of 0 does not mean the service is actually >> up-and-running properly). >> > You may well be right. However for those of us who just want to get > the system running it has lousy reporting. Under SysV setting -vx on > the script gave meaningful output - there's no easy equivalent under > systemctl. Systemctl returning success status on daemon failure is > plain stupid. I'm sure systemd does wonderful things and is the > future and we're stuck with it now until at least CentOS/RHEL 8. One > of the great joys of *NIX is small, stable text files that can be > handled without vast study unlike the obscure behemoth that would look > good coming out of Redmond. Even getting ntp to supply time to > another system takes hours instead of 5 minutes. > > If I ever meet Poettering I'll be sure to sup with a long spoon. ;-( Actually, I think I've figured out why systemd... let's see, the CEO of upstream was CEO of Delta Airlines before he came to RH (?!), and now this.... <http://www.redhat.com/en/about/blog/enabling-todays-hybrid-reality-broader-choice-red-hat-and-microsoft> mark