On 3/16/2017 8:20 PM, ken wrote: > Not true. Last year I got an HP Envy 17 (and it's still being sold) > and it has a DVD r+w. This can't be the only laptop being sold with > an optical drive. the majority of newer laptops are going for a slimline ultralight design emphasizing their primary design as being portable. 17" laptops are not that portable or convenient to setup anywhere but on a large clear table. optical disk is rapidly going the way of the floppy disk, obsolete. when even a DVD-Rom has no more than 4GB on it, while a thumbnail sized USB stick can be 64GB or larger, and is faster (at least on USB3)... -- john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz