[CentOS] Flame war police

Tue Oct 10 15:32:32 UTC 2017
Valeri Galtsev <galtsev at kicp.uchicago.edu>

On Tue, October 10, 2017 10:22 am, Mark Haney wrote:
> On 10/10/2017 11:03 AM, Andrew Holway wrote:
>> Hiya everyone,
>> Is there a way to disable a thread that has degenerated into flaming?
>> The
>> recent "discussion" on /var/run descended into some quite nasty places
>> and
>> perhaps a lid should have been put on it. This seems to happen every few
>> weeks and is somewhat embarrassing when I'm trying to persuade people of
>> the "active and friendly Centos community"
>> It was a shame that no one actually read past the belligerence his
>> original
>> post enough to come up with a solution. It was quite clearly a problem
>> with
>> third party packages not coming with SELinux policies.
> Also just as clearly, everyone on the list said this wasn't standard
> CentOS practice, the third party repo/packages OP used was not built
> properly and to either find a package that did, or compile from source. 
> At no point will anyone on this list try to fix a 'problem' by ignoring
> the 40+ years of UNIX design.  Liability aside, if someone doesn't like
> what the majority say on the list, that's their problem.  Trying to
> stick persistent data in /var/run isn't standard (or best) practice and,
> indeed, /var/run is literally designed to not be persistent.  Any sane
> admin wouldn't countenance that, and most of us are sane, and experienced.
> Let me ask, would you allow your kids to do something that was obviously
> dangerous?  This is the same thing.  We're here to guide those willing
> to learn the /best/ method of resolving problems. Some aren't willing to
> learn and refuse to believe the majority here know what we're talking
> about.  The true answer to OPs question wasn't what he wanted to hear
> and continued ad nauseum to insist that's what he wants to do. 
> Sometimes people just have to fail to learn.
> Most of us make a living in IT, and get paid to do things within the
> parameters of the systems we manage.  How hard is it to understand such
> a simple concept? What you insist on calling a flame war, was some of
> us, me included, trying to get people to understand that 1) OP is wrong
> trying to do it this way 2) that OPs package wasn't standard CentOS
> packaging and was dangerous to use on CentOS systems and 3) that there's
> no way any of us would offer a work around for something that will
> almost certainly result in lost data.
> OP appeared, to me at least,  to be quite immature in insisting going
> against how CentOS (and RHEL) is designed and would very likely have
> come back to the list raising hell over losing data and how it's our
> fault for his inability to listen to us. Don't you think that would have
> been a bigger blow to the 'active and friendly community' if we'd
> actually offered advice contrary to design/best practice?  Would you
> take advice from someone you know has given dangerous advice in the past?
> We have this discussion on every list I've ever been, or currently are
> on about every 6 months or so.  I do my best to contribute to the list
> as often as I can, but I can't help people when they are deadset on
> doing dangerous things.  Posts like his, and posts like yours make it
> harder for me to bother trying to help those unwilling to listen.  I
> don't take it from my children, and I certainly won't from adults who
> won't listen.

Thanks, Mark! Not only I agree with all you said, but these were the same
points that I was seeing in this whole thread. The OP gave me the same
feeling as I have when sometimes someone comes to me to fix their system,
and when I start doing what I see necessary starts direct me what I should
do next. Which brings these feelings: you already failed to fix it
yourself, that is why you came to get me do that, now step back and
observe how it is done...


> --
> Mark Haney
> Network Engineer at NeoNova
> 919-460-3330 option 1
> mark.haney at neonova.net
> www.neonova.net
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Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247