On 10/10/2017 11:22 AM, Mark Haney wrote: > > We have this discussion on every list I've ever been, or currently are > on about every 6 months or so. I do my best to contribute to the list > as often as I can, but I can't help people when they are deadset on > doing dangerous things. Posts like his, and posts like yours make it > harder for me to bother trying to help those unwilling to listen. I > don't take it from my children, and I certainly won't from adults who > won't listen. > Hi Mark, been a while since I saw you last in Asheville. The core issue in the /var/run thread is one of lack of civility. There is a civil way of calling someone to see their need for further thought and investigation; calling someone 'stupid' or 'an idiot' over something as small as /var/run directory persistence is, to my mind at least, its own brand of immaturity and will typically cause the person so being attacked to go on the defensive and harden their stance, and this is the textbook genesis of a flame. I've been involved in Unix and related pursuits long enough to know that different people consider different things to be polite. And I've said my share of impolite things, especially back in the day when I had a Usenet leaf node over uucp and participated in news.admin and alt.flame, so I'm not being self-righteous here, just practical and realistic. I've been plonked before, and I've plonked before. (If anyone isn't familiar with the term 'plonk' it means to put in your killfile or ignore list, and there are a few people that have been on this list that I have killfiled in the past, several especially right around the releases of CentOS 5.6 and CentOS 6.0). So, for the last several years, I have set a protocol for myself where, if words that would be considered uncivil by most people were present in my post, or if my wording became too much of an attack over the person, I simply don't send it. My wife and I have five children, so I'm more than a little familiar with a certain rabbit named Thumper and his famous adage "f you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all." Now, I don't agree with that adage as written, as I would rather use the word 'civil' instead of 'nice,' because 'civil' doesn't mean nice. Civil just means 'not nasty' even when you need to have 'Radical Candor.' But I reserve that sort of 'harsh civility' for my staff here when necessary, who get a much more civil tone than my children at home would, incidentally. But my staff aren't children. And the members of this list aren't my staff, and I will be civil to everyone on this list. I'll drop a brief note about my opinion of /var/run later, so that anyone who wants to ignore that thread before I post can do so.