On 12/18/20 12:35 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:36:12AM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote: >> You have been involved in CentOS for a long time. Would you mind >> explaining the structure here. Do you work for Red hat full time on >> the CentOS team? How many people are on that Team that were working >> on CentOS? Is CentOS structured as a non-profit company with staff >> just working on development of this distribution or is this just a >> group of independent developers working on the same project? How >> many people are working on active development of on the Red hat team >> / CentOS Organization (if any)? > > Johnny can answer this too (and I'll let him cover the specifics about his > own employment) but since I'm here: > > Like Fedora, there is no formal legal structure around CentOS as a project. > "A group of developers and stakeholders" is a reasonable description. Red > Hat is the primary sponsor of both projects, and holds the trademarks and > other intellectual property — and takes most legal responsibility and risk. > Red Hat also funds engineering, hardware, and a community budget. > > There is no dedicated CentOS team at Red Hat, just as there is no dedicated > Fedora team. There are two highly-relevant teams, though. The first is > Community Platform Engineering, which serves infrastructure and > build tooling for both projects. Second is the Open Source Program Office, > which has a team of community managers and leaders. (Rich Bowen and Marie > Nordin fit in there.) Others are employeed other places — Ben Cotton, who > serves as Program Manager for both Fedora and CentOS Stream — comes to us > from the program management office. > > There is no one at Red Hat whose individual job is "develop Fedora". > Instead, like non-RH community members, lots of different people across Red > Hat engineering have "maintain my package in Fedora" as part of their job, > or "work on the Fedora Workstation as a whole". Those people are usually > also responsible for something similar in RHEL. > > This is true for RDO for OpenStack or OKD for OpenShift, too. And I'd have > to check for sure but I assume it is also the case for AWX for Ansible. > > So, CentOS Linux is something kind of an aberration, because RH was paying > people in the CPE team to spend their time on package builds, even though > they weren't building those packages for RHEL. That's the thing Red Hat > wants to stop doing. With Stream, packages will be actually built by the > engineers who are building them for RHEL. People working on CentOS Stream > _project_ engineering will be more like the way CPE works for Fedora: on > infrastructure and services around that. > > As I understand it, this was something like 2-3 full-time equivalent > positions just doing repackaging and associated work. I don't know the > precise number. That might not seem like a lot, but if you've ever scrambled > for req's for a project, you know it's a big deal. Red Hat's RHEL > organization does not actually have a lot of extra fat to spare. But there > is a lot of work that needs to be done to make the CentOS Stream > infrastructure. > > So, like I've said before, the given explanation of "we want to actually > focus resources" makes total sense to me as an important driver. Instead of > doing what is essentially duplicative work, people paid to work on CentOS > specifically can act as catalysts, and the hundreds of people in the RHEL > organization who previously didn't look at CentOS at all are now CentOS > developers directly. > > Matthew's post is spot on. I work for Red Hat full time (since the end of 2013) and I am part of the Community Platform Engineering (CPE) team. Almost everything CentOS from inside Red Hat currently happens on this team. In the future, when RHEL development has full shifted to the new process, the RHEL engineers will be directly building CentOS Stream. Right now, the below mentioned CentOS Stream team does it. CentOS Infrastructure, CentOS Linux (legacy .. CentOS 7 until EOL in 2024, CentOS 8 Linux until Dec 2021), CentOS Stream (8 and later on Stream 9), and CentOS CI are all done from this team. I personally do CentOS Linux 7 builds (and signing / release/announce) and I also do most of the CentOS 8 Linux builds and releases. There is a team that does CentOS Stream. There are about 5 people on this team (including me). This team also helps with CentOS Linux 8 from time to time as well. There is a team of people that do infrastructure for both Fedora and CentOS. This infrastructure team actually maintains all the CentOS Builders and the mirrors, etc (all hardware, networks, switches, etc). There are several people on this team. There is also a team that does CentOS CI, it also contains several people. Obviously, there are Managers and also agile team leaders who supervise / help set and meet goals that do not actually do hands on work with machines, builds, etc.