On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 07:50, Simon Matter <simon.matter at invoca.ch> wrote: > > Am 06.01.21 um 03:01 schrieb Scott Robbins: > >> On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 11:31:34PM +0000, Jamie Burchell wrote: > >>> Off topic for sure, but it's a shame this has to be a manual process of > >>> destroying and rebuilding every X years. Even Microsoft has gone the > >>> Apple > >>> way and just perpetually updates Windows 10 now. > >> > >> I'm not sure how it will go. Fedora now has a very good upgrade tool > >> that > >> has worked for me through a few versions. So, hopefully, RH, and CentOS > >> will have one too, who knows, maybe in time to migrate to Stream-9. > >> > > > > Fedora's package set is quite "stable". You can expect that a package is > > in the next release. This is not so valid for EL. Deprecated packages > > (ImageMagick in EL7 but not in EL8) make such upgrade path difficult ... > > It's anyway hard to understand how an enterprise grade Linux can be > shipped without things like ImageMagick or Tomcat. For quite some time now > it gives me the impression that we're not the targeted audience anymore. > > The issue is that 'Enterprise' is an overloaded term without the nuance it needs. In the 'small' enterprise you have a lot of use of ImageMagick and TomCat. In the large enterprise of 100,000+ servers.. it isn't. As more of the large enterprises moved into RHEL, the amount of usage for a lot of 'leaf' programs became rounding errors without enough usage to justify the bug-fixing needed when compared to the load of bugfixing/enhancements/etc in the 100k customers. > That's really sad because the competitors still include such important > software as first class citizens. Maybe our requirements are just too old > school? > > An additional problem is a generational one. We have a lot of programs which do various things 'well' enough written 10-30 years ago, and we of a certain age use them for the hammers to every nail problem. However, the problems fleets of 100k systems have are more welding versus hammering. So we are in a situation where we do need to retrain some of our hammers to be rivet guns. There is also a similar industry problem that anything older than 2 years ago is not sexy anymore because VC and investors aren't going to dump money into it. [You see a similar issue in the various 'popular mechanics' press that all homes in the next generation will only be built with metal and hammers and wood are a thing of the past. What you see instead is a wave of it and then a realization that you end up needing to do a little of each.] > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > -- Stephen J Smoogen.