Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org !
There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org.
As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/), which is : - python 2.x based - unmaintained
It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game.
For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow.
FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide)
As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it.
All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better)
Kind Regards,
At the oVirt project we used to have a moinmo.in based website and we migrated it to https://jekyllrb.com/ . The pages can be written in markdown or asciidoc and the site is maintained in a git repository so it can be on pagure/gitlab/github as preferred by CentOS Project.
Il giorno lun 27 feb 2023 alle ore 09:06 Fabian Arrotin arrfab@centos.org ha scritto:
Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org !
There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org.
As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/), which is :
- python 2.x based
- unmaintained
It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game.
For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow.
FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide)
As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it.
All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better)
Kind Regards,
Fabian Arrotin The CentOS Project | https://www.centos.org gpg key: 17F3B7A1 | @arrfab[@fosstodon.org] _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 3:29 AM Sandro Bonazzola sbonazzo@redhat.com wrote:
At the oVirt project we used to have a moinmo.in based website and we migrated it to https://jekyllrb.com/ . The pages can be written in markdown or asciidoc and the site is maintained in a git repository so it can be on pagure/gitlab/github as preferred by CentOS Project.
Github supports jekyll-based sites and wikis, and both can take the usual github pushes and gets and forks. Only difference is when you push a jekyll change it automagically tests it before committing to the site.
Also, you can test the jekyll site locally in your computer.
If the SIGs are already using jekyll, we can just get their templates, wash them, and use them.
Il giorno lun 27 feb 2023 alle ore 09:06 Fabian Arrotin arrfab@centos.org ha scritto:
Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org !
There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org.
As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/), which is :
- python 2.x based
- unmaintained
It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game.
For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow.
FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide)
As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it.
All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better)
Kind Regards,
Fabian Arrotin The CentOS Project | https://www.centos.org gpg key: 17F3B7A1 | @arrfab[@fosstodon.org] _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
--
Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle Operating System
Red Hat EMEA
sbonazzo@redhat.com
Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 10:27:57AM -0500, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 3:29 AM Sandro Bonazzola sbonazzo@redhat.com wrote:
At the oVirt project we used to have a moinmo.in based website and we migrated it to https://jekyllrb.com/ . The pages can be written in markdown or asciidoc and the site is maintained in a git repository so it can be on pagure/gitlab/github as preferred by CentOS Project.
Github supports jekyll-based sites and wikis, and both can takethe usual github pushes and gets and forks. Only difference is when you push a jekyll change it automagically tests it before committing to the site.
Also, you can test the jekyll site locally in your computer.
If the SIGs are already using jekyll, we can just get their templates, wash them, and use them.
GitHub supports anything you want if you use GitHub Actions. For example, I've used mkdocs together with actions/deploy-pages[1]. It says it's a public beta, but in my experience it's very stable.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 at 03:06, Fabian Arrotin arrfab@centos.org wrote:
Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org !
There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org.
As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/), which is :
- python 2.x based
- unmaintained
It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game.
For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow.
FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide)
As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it.
All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better)
I think a git pull-request oriented wiki-like would be better with some sort of Markdown2HTML (fill in ascii format ) frontend. The older wiki can be dumped to html, html2markdown, cleaned up and then fronted with 'Hugo' or something.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:05 AM Stephen Smoogen ssmoogen@redhat.com wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 at 03:06, Fabian Arrotin arrfab@centos.org wrote:
Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org !
There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org.
As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/), which is :
- python 2.x based
- unmaintained
It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game.
For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow.
FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide)
As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it.
All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better)
I think a git pull-request oriented wiki-like would be better with some sort of Markdown2HTML (fill in ascii format ) frontend. The older wiki can be dumped to html, html2markdown, cleaned up and then fronted with 'Hugo' or something.
Speaks a someone who recently started a SIG, it's confusing having half the documentation in a wiki https://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup https://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/AltImages
and half the documentation in a different place https://sigs.centos.org/ https://sigs.centos.org/altimages/
I've had a really hard time with my documentation because each time I talk to someone they point to a different place, and I have to literally duplicate what I did in two different places. My vote. Drop the wiki entirely in a controlled manner.
Troy
On Mon, 2023-02-27 at 08:32 -0800, Troy Dawson wrote:
Speaks a someone who recently started a SIG, it's confusing having half the documentation in a wiki https://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup https://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/AltImages
and half the documentation in a different place https://sigs.centos.org/ https://sigs.centos.org/altimages/
I've had a really hard time with my documentation because each time I talk to someone they point to a different place, and I have to literally duplicate what I did in two different places. My vote. Drop the wiki entirely in a controlled manner.
This definitely came up in our conversations. I have a data file that I use to keep track of SIGs. What I'd like to do is populate sigs.centos.org with info about every SIG from that data file. That ensures consistency, and it's easy to audit and keep up to date. Any further info SIGs want to provide should be done with the mkdocs approach currently in use on sigs.centos.org.
-- Shaun
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:05 AM Fabian Arrotin arrfab@centos.org wrote:
Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org !
There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org.
As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/), which is :
- python 2.x based
- unmaintained
It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game.
For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow.
FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide)
As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it.
All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better)
Kind Regards,
Fabian Arrotin The CentOS Project | https://www.centos.org gpg key: 17F3B7A1 | @arrfab[@fosstodon.org]
Just wanted to add that there was a talk on this subject earlier:
https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2022-August/thread.html#1205... "What to do with wiki.centos.org ? (let's discuss it)"
Akemi
On 28/02/2023 10:21, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:05 AM Fabian Arrotin <arrfab@centos.org mailto:arrfab@centos.org> wrote:
Let's start discussing the future of wiki.centos.org <http://wiki.centos.org> ! There was a CentOS Docs SIG day happening on monday after Fosdem and during that day, we started to discuss the future of wiki.centos.org <http://wiki.centos.org>. As a reminder : https://wiki.centos.org <https://wiki.centos.org> is actually powered by moin (http://moinmo.in/ <http://moinmo.in/>), which is : - python 2.x based - unmaintained It's also running on CentOS Linux 7 (for these requirements), itself going EOL next year. Also worth adding that it's under constant spammer load, with plenty of bots trying to write content, be denied, and trying in a different way, so it's really a "whack a mole" game. For all these reasons, it has to be replaced by something else, (still a wiki) or even better, be decommissioned entirely and eventually moved to a git workflow. FWIW, it's what is used for all websites from various SIGs under https://sigs.centos.org <https://sigs.centos.org> (including the SIG guide itself, https://sigs.centos.org/guide <https://sigs.centos.org/guide>) As a follow-up on the CentOS SIG day, an investigation (see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061 <https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/1061>) was started as a PoC to just extract wiki content in a readable (static) format, so that we can still host a "read-only" version (archived) of wiki content, while a new service (wiki or else) would replace it. All comments/remarks are welcome, and let's have a plan about what to do (the sooner, the better) Kind Regards, -- Fabian Arrotin The CentOS Project | https://www.centos.org <https://www.centos.org> gpg key: 17F3B7A1 | @arrfab[@fosstodon.org <http://fosstodon.org>]Just wanted to add that there was a talk on this subject earlier:
https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2022-August/thread.html#1205... https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2022-August/thread.html#120541 "What to do with wiki.centos.org http://wiki.centos.org ? (let's discuss it)"
Akemi
True, but reason why I started another one is for one reason : starting a thread is easy but there is usually no action plan/follow-up (as you can see from previous thread), reason why I'm asking again the centos-docs SIG to take action, and expose a plan :)
So it's a matter of prioritizing the work to be done, taking a decision about "where to go next", and then decommission wiki (the last step will happen for sure, no matter what will be done or not before)
-
Akemi Yagi -
Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden -
Fabian Arrotin -
Mauricio Tavares -
Sandro Bonazzola -
Shaun McCance -
Stephen Smoogen -
Troy Dawson