On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Kenneth Porter shiva@sewingwitch.com wrote:
I don't see any mention of this in the CentOS announcements forum. I'd consider dropping the mailing list and switching to forums if this kind of warning appeared there.
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=53 _______________________________________________
The CentOS forum is pretty useless IMO
On 08/26/2011 09:01 AM, Rudi Ahlers wrote:
The CentOS forum is pretty useless IMO
The CentOS Forums are a very very good resource for many people and the people spending time managing and posting there are doing a very good job. I'm guessing you were unable to get value from the forums since your expectations and forums deliverables dont match. That's fine, but it does not imply that the entire forums are 'useless'.
- KB
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
On 08/26/2011 09:01 AM, Rudi Ahlers wrote:
The CentOS forum is pretty useless IMO
The CentOS Forums are a very very good resource for many people and the people spending time managing and posting there are doing a very good job. I'm guessing you were unable to get value from the forums since your expectations and forums deliverables dont match. That's fine, but it does not imply that the entire forums are 'useless'.
Just to second KB's view ... Anyone who thinks the CentOS Forums are not a valuable source as one of the help venues CentOS offers is encouraged to try and make it better instead of expressing his/her opinion as 'useless'. Why this is important? Google knows:
http://blog.toracat.org/2010/05/search-is-on-an-update/
Also ... if you value what ELRepo provides, you'd like to know that the ELRepo Project would not have been born without the Forums:
http://blog.toracat.org/2009/06/elrepo-project/
Akemi -- done with enough adv of own blogs :-D
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Karanbir Singh wrote:
To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org From: Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org Subject: Re: [CentOS] Apache warns Web server admins of DoS attack tool
On 08/26/2011 09:01 AM, Rudi Ahlers wrote:
The CentOS forum is pretty useless IMO
The CentOS Forums are a very very good resource for many people and the people spending time managing and posting there are doing a very good job. I'm guessing you were unable to get value from the forums since your expectations and forums deliverables dont match. That's fine, but it does not imply that the entire forums are 'useless'.
I'd say the forums have ALOT of usefull info, but the main Centos activity is centered on IMHO this list - cannot speak for the other centos lists, as I'm ONLY on this one for now.
Personally, I prefer to participate in an active mailing list, where there are many others that usually reply in near-real time.
Kind Regards,
Keith
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On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Keith Roberts keith@karsites.net wrote:
The CentOS Forums are a very very good resource for many people and the people spending time managing and posting there are doing a very good job. I'm guessing you were unable to get value from the forums since your expectations and forums deliverables dont match. That's fine, but it does not imply that the entire forums are 'useless'.
I'd say the forums have ALOT of usefull info, but the main Centos activity is centered on IMHO this list - cannot speak for the other centos lists, as I'm ONLY on this one for now.
The problem with forums is that if you have more than a couple of interests you kill the whole day bouncing around in a web browser logging into them and figuring out their user interface differences. Could the rss feed be made a little more obvious? It might work to plug it into google reader or other feed consolidator.
On Sun, 2011-08-28 at 11:37 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
The problem with forums is that if you have more than a couple of interests you kill the whole day bouncing around in a web browser logging into them and figuring out their user interface differences. Could the rss feed be made a little more obvious? It might work to plug it into google reader or other feed consolidator.
Forums = too slow = too much hard work for little gain Emails = instant = quick = easy
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Always Learning centos@u61.u22.net wrote:
On Sun, 2011-08-28 at 11:37 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
The problem with forums is that if you have more than a couple of interests you kill the whole day bouncing around in a web browser logging into them and figuring out their user interface differences. Could the rss feed be made a little more obvious? It might work to plug it into google reader or other feed consolidator.
Forums = too slow = too much hard work for little gain Emails = instant = quick = easy
I agree in principle, but remember that you are really interacting with your own tools, so if they are slow or inconvenient you can use a different tool. There are some email readers (Apple's, at least) that handle rss feeds pretty much the same as email. Google reader or other feed aggregators make it easy to read a bunch from different sources all in one place with whatever groupings you like - and always maintain the same 'unread' view across different client browsers or phone apps. So, if the forums provide a usable rss feed, reading them shouldn't be that bad, even though you have to follow the links to read longer messages and reply. Seems to work fine for the QA forum, anyway.
On Sunday, August 28, 2011 06:47:08 PM Les Mikesell wrote:
So, if the forums provide a usable rss feed, reading them shouldn't be that bad, even though you have to follow the links to read longer messages and reply.
If the forums have useful RSS feeds, yeah, that would work. I use Kontact; the default feed reader for Kontact is Akregator, which works reasonably well as long as the RSS feed is reasonable (that is, you can get all useful content without having to go to the forum website; if the forum RSS feed requires me to go to the website for essential things like subjects and thread starters, then it's unreasonable).
Otherwise I find web forums require a complete change in workflow; that is, I have to go look at the website and navigate around, with different interfaces, logins, and paradigms. I like e-mail when done right (folderized, threaded, etc). When done wrong it's useless, too, for that matter.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Lamar Owen lowen@pari.edu wrote:
On Sunday, August 28, 2011 06:47:08 PM Les Mikesell wrote:
So, if the forums provide a usable rss feed, reading them shouldn't be that bad, even though you have to follow the links to read longer messages and reply.
If the forums have useful RSS feeds, yeah, that would work. I use Kontact; the default feed reader for Kontact is Akregator, which works reasonably well as long as the RSS feed is reasonable (that is, you can get all useful content without having to go to the forum website; if the forum RSS feed requires me to go to the website for essential things like subjects and thread starters, then it's unreasonable).
Otherwise I find web forums require a complete change in workflow; that is, I have to go look at the website and navigate around, with different interfaces, logins, and paradigms. I like e-mail when done right (folderized, threaded, etc). When done wrong it's useless, too, for that matter.
Not so sure about usability - it looks like the rss is all-or-nothing and I have no interest at all in CentOS4. I'll see how it shows up in google reader. The QA forum works fine that way to pick up the occasional announcement, though.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
So, if the forums provide a usable rss feed, reading them shouldn't be that bad, even though you have to follow the links to read longer messages and reply.
If the forums have useful RSS feeds, yeah, that would work. I use Kontact; the default feed reader for Kontact is Akregator, which works reasonably well as long as the RSS feed is reasonable (that is, you can get all useful content without having to go to the forum website; if the forum RSS feed requires me to go to the website for essential things like subjects and thread starters, then it's unreasonable).
Otherwise I find web forums require a complete change in workflow; that is, I have to go look at the website and navigate around, with different interfaces, logins, and paradigms. I like e-mail when done right (folderized, threaded, etc). When done wrong it's useless, too, for that matter.
Not so sure about usability - it looks like the rss is all-or-nothing and I have no interest at all in CentOS4. I'll see how it shows up in google reader. The QA forum works fine that way to pick up the occasional announcement, though.
The first look isn't promising - there is only a small amount of text displayed and clicking through to get the rest doesn't recognize mobile browsers so you always have to zoom in for a reasonable font size when using the phone app. And a large percent of the admittedly small sample looks more like spam or off-topic than what we see here. Is anyone interested in seeing things like: "Atlantica online OG Realms Private Server" or "Does CentOS join Micorsoft strategy?"
Clicking on the first one of those gave me a 'you do not have permission to access this forum' error, which might mean someone removed it after the rss entry was picked up, but still not a great user experience.
On 29/08/11 21:11, Les Mikesell wrote:
Clicking on the first one of those gave me a 'you do not have permission to access this forum' error, which might mean someone removed it after the rss entry was picked up, but still not a great user experience.
Yes, that was spam and was removed by a moderator hence the permissions error you see.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 03:11:31PM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
The first look isn't promising - there is only a small amount of text displayed and clicking through to get the rest doesn't recognize mobile browsers so you always have to zoom in for a reasonable font size when using the phone app. And a large percent of the admittedly small sample looks more like spam or off-topic than what we see here. Is anyone interested in seeing things like: "Atlantica online OG Realms Private Server" or "Does CentOS join Micorsoft strategy?"
One of those was probably fairly quickly removed as spam. The second one is really not typical of the forum.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Scott Robbins scottro@nyc.rr.com wrote:
The first look isn't promising - there is only a small amount of text displayed and clicking through to get the rest doesn't recognize mobile browsers so you always have to zoom in for a reasonable font size when using the phone app. And a large percent of the admittedly small sample looks more like spam or off-topic than what we see here. Is anyone interested in seeing things like: "Atlantica online OG Realms Private Server" or "Does CentOS join Micorsoft strategy?"
One of those was probably fairly quickly removed as spam. The second one is really not typical of the forum.
OK, but even ignoring the content, the rss experience is very bad - and it seems like the best hope to attract email users to reading the forum (short of a gateway that would likely propagate the worst features of both). Is there any way to add selective feeds for each section, get more content text included to make it less likely to have to click through, and perhaps have a mobile view available if you do click though on a mobile device? Is anyone else even trying to use rss regularly?
On 8/28/2011 12:37 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Keith Robertskeith@karsites.net wrote:
The CentOS Forums are a very very good resource for many people and the people spending time managing and posting there are doing a very good job. I'm guessing you were unable to get value from the forums since your expectations and forums deliverables dont match. That's fine, but it does not imply that the entire forums are 'useless'.
I'd say the forums have ALOT of usefull info, but the main Centos activity is centered on IMHO this list - cannot speak for the other centos lists, as I'm ONLY on this one for now.
The problem with forums is that if you have more than a couple of interests you kill the whole day bouncing around in a web browser logging into them and figuring out their user interface differences. Could the rss feed be made a little more obvious? It might work to plug it into google reader or other feed consolidator.
Someday, perhaps we'll end up back on an authenticated version of NNTP, with support for bbcode, images, and the front end reader of your choice...
Maybe a merger of some sort between forums / email discussion threads and NNTP. There are things that the web forum does well, things that NNTP does well and things that mailing lists do well.
On 08/30/2011 11:33 PM, Thomas Harold wrote:
Someday, perhaps we'll end up back on an authenticated version of NNTP, with support for bbcode, images, and the front end reader of your choice...
Thats quite a good idea - and something that we explored at length when looking for a replacement software for the existing forums. And while that would be nice to have, reduce content duplication and assert some level of authority across venues etc, its still not really the master-solution. The bridge would be good to have, but there are lots of people who chose a venue to work with based on their own expectations, comfort level and media they prefer working with. In some cases, like the people here on the list - mailing lists are the way to go. Others prefer to use the forums. While plenty hang out on IRC. Lets not take the choice away from people.
- KB
thus Karanbir Singh spake:
On 08/30/2011 11:33 PM, Thomas Harold wrote:
Someday, perhaps we'll end up back on an authenticated version of NNTP, with support for bbcode, images, and the front end reader of your choice...
Thats quite a good idea - and something that we explored at length when looking for a replacement software for the existing forums. And while that would be nice to have, reduce content duplication and assert some level of authority across venues etc, its still not really the master-solution. The bridge would be good to have, but there are lots of people who chose a venue to work with based on their own expectations, comfort level and media they prefer working with. In some cases, like the people here on the list - mailing lists are the way to go. Others prefer to use the forums. While plenty hang out on IRC. Lets not take the choice away from people.
- KB
Just released:
Hi,
On 08/31/2011 10:56 AM, Timo Schoeler wrote:
Just released: https://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/Announcement2.2.html
thanks. I guess we should wait on a fix from upstream, make sure its tested etc. If there is interest in doing a local fix/build for c4/5/6 testing repo's, please submit a patch and I can push it through the buildsys. For the main distro, lets wait on the upstream fix.
- KB
On 31/08/2011, at 11:07 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 08/31/2011 10:56 AM, Timo Schoeler wrote:
Just released: https://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/Announcement2.2.html
thanks. I guess we should wait on a fix from upstream, make sure its tested etc. If there is interest in doing a local fix/build for c4/5/6 testing repo's, please submit a patch and I can push it through the buildsys. For the main distro, lets wait on the upstream fix.
For EL 4, 5, 6:
https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2011-1245.html
Tom
Thanks Tom,
On 09/01/2011 02:05 AM, Tom Lanyon wrote:
For EL 4, 5, 6: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2011-1245.html
rpms for C5 are pushed into the 5.6/cr/ repo; the c6 build is running now, we will have the cr stuff up for that today and get this into there as well.
Unless Tru gets to it before me, I'll get the c4 builds out as well in a bit.
- KB
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 4:32 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
On 08/30/2011 11:33 PM, Thomas Harold wrote:
Someday, perhaps we'll end up back on an authenticated version of NNTP, with support for bbcode, images, and the front end reader of your choice...
Thats quite a good idea - and something that we explored at length when looking for a replacement software for the existing forums. And while that would be nice to have, reduce content duplication and assert some level of authority across venues etc, its still not really the master-solution.
Unless there are hub sites that aggregate all the feeds this sounds like it would require per-target, per-client, per-platform configuration to set up authenticated access, which would be fairly horrible for anyone who likes to use multiple programs on multiple devices to access a large number of sites. And inventing a new protocol for programs that don't exist to do something that many of us think is already handled correctly by email probably isn't a great idea.
The bridge would be good to have, but there are lots of people who chose a venue to work with based on their own expectations, comfort level and media they prefer working with. In some cases, like the people here on the list - mailing lists are the way to go. Others prefer to use the forums. While plenty hang out on IRC. Lets not take the choice away from people.
I still think rss could work with existing aggregators like google reader to make forum reading tolerable and clicking through to reply not too annoying, but the feed needs to include the whole posting or enough to catch most of them without having to click through. Is that something that can be configured? I tried to look on the xoops newbb site but their rss feed actually just gives an error which doesn't look promising. Also, it would be nice if the web side had a mobile view so you didn't have to zoom in to be able to read each article when you click through on a phone.
-
Akemi Yagi -
Always Learning -
Karanbir Singh -
Keith Roberts -
Lamar Owen -
Les Mikesell -
Ned Slider -
Rudi Ahlers -
Scott Robbins -
Thomas Harold -
Timo Schoeler -
Tom Lanyon