Hello Eric,

I've actually looked into NAS, but I wanted to escape using a hard drive based solution.

Besides using Bacula on my server is basically the same thing as it backs up all the machines on my network :).

I guess I'll have to settle with using a hard drive based solution if I want to keep the price down, and storage space up, tapes are really too expensive and I guess using RAID1 on a few disks should be reliable enough.... I hope. :)

Thanks anyway.

Regards

Hamzah

On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 17:47 -0500, Eric Clark wrote:

For backups I would actually look at a NAS Server dual bay or quad bay 1TB x 2 or 3 drives

The NAS is pretty simple to setup and would require network backups and accessibility however you could actually do them in NTFS so that you could backup windows machines as well.

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=netgear+nas +storage&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=cuu_Sr6GHsKe8Abz1ZShAQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:40 PM, M. Hamzah Khan hamzah@hamzahkhan.com wrote: Hey everyone,

    My home server just had a disk failure a few weeks ago and
    like a lot of
    people I haven't ever really made backups on a regular basis.
    So I was
    looking into backup solutions which will save me from this
    situation
    again.

    Now I have Bacula setup, and backing up my files onto my home
    server.

    Although this works great, I have one issue: The disk in my
    server was
    the one that actually failed, and so, even with RAID1, could
    fail again.
    So to get around this I wanted to backup to external media
    aswell.

    I don't really think external hard drives are that great
    considering
    they are just as reliable as internal hard drives which would
    be
    pointless as RAID1 should be reliable enough in that case.

    Backing up to DVDs are quite unreliable too, a simple scratch
    could
    render the backup useless. Also it would require quite a lot
    of DVDs to
    backup my data (at least 500GB!).

    The only other option I could think of is to use tapes, but
    this option
    can be quite pricy for a home user.

    So I was wondering what you guys use for external backups for
    a home
    system containing at least 500GB worth of important data?

    Regards

    Hamzah
    --
    M. Hamzah Khan
    RedHat Certified Engineer Number: 804005539516829
    Email: hamzah@hamzahkhan.com
    URL: http://www.hamzahkhan.com

    _______________________________________________
    CentOS mailing list
    CentOS@centos.org
    http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 18:24 -0500, Eric Clark wrote:

NAS has actually gotten very effective

You may want to take a look at the D-Links and Buffalo NAS Servers for having the backup info on.

This may be a very good alternative over the long run as well becuase the NAS will be on 24/7 and draw alot less electricity than a full blown server..

Well my server will be on 24/7 anyway as it runs as my mail server and webserver anyway.

Besides, a NAS is really just a glorified mini-server with a simplified management system.

I could quite easily replicate all of its features on a Linux machine using standard tools. Thats not really what I wanted although so far it seems that this is the only real feasible route considering the amount of data that needs to be backed up.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=nas+storage+dual +bay&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4947813462866442505&ei=FfO_Ss6BFdHj8AbEx8yuAQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5#ps-sellers

You can also pick up similar devices on ebay and the likes of buy.com for alot less.

The benefit is of course being able to use SATA II hard drives that you already own, so you would cut down on cost there as well.

I dropped 2x1TB into one of these babies and actually have it rocking with 2 500GB partitions. *one for *(cough) movies and one of course for files.

One of the drives failed about 2 weeks ago, and I simply pulled it out, and got a new one installed the same day, and it copied everything back over.

It has RAID and a few other technologies like being able to continue a download after you turn your PC or server off (connected to internet of course).

Then also comes the benefits of less electricity usage to pay for. That stuff aint cheap. Its a very smart solution for a growing problem and the best factor that I have found with it is that it is simple to setup, and easier to back up to knowing that it is always online.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:14 PM, M. Hamzah Khan hamzah@hamzahkhan.com wrote: Hello Eric,

    I've actually looked into NAS, but I wanted to escape using a
    hard drive
    based solution.

    Besides using Bacula on my server is basically the same thing
    as it
    backs up all the machines on my network :).

    I guess I'll have to settle with using a hard drive based
    solution if I
    want to keep the price down, and storage space up, tapes are
    really too
    expensive and I guess using RAID1 on a few disks should be
    reliable
    enough.... I hope. :)

    Thanks anyway.

    Regards

    Hamzah


    On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 17:47 -0500, Eric Clark wrote:
    > For backups I would actually look at a NAS Server dual bay
    or quad bay
    > 1TB x 2 or 3 drives
    >
    > The NAS is pretty simple to setup and would require network
    backups
    > and accessibility however you could actually do them in NTFS
    so that
    > you could backup windows machines as well.
    >
    > http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=netgear+nas
    >
    +storage&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=cuu_Sr6GHsKe8Abz1ZShAQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7
    >
    > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:40 PM, M. Hamzah Khan
    > <hamzah@hamzahkhan.com> wrote:
    >         Hey everyone,
    >
    >         My home server just had a disk failure a few weeks
    ago and
    >         like a lot of
    >         people I haven't ever really made backups on a
    regular basis.
    >         So I was
    >         looking into backup solutions which will save me
    from this
    >         situation
    >         again.
    >
    >         Now I have Bacula setup, and backing up my files
    onto my home
    >         server.
    >
    >         Although this works great, I have one issue: The
    disk in my
    >         server was
    >         the one that actually failed, and so, even with
    RAID1, could
    >         fail again.
    >         So to get around this I wanted to backup to external
    media
    >         aswell.
    >
    >         I don't really think external hard drives are that
    great
    >         considering
    >         they are just as reliable as internal hard drives
    which would
    >         be
    >         pointless as RAID1 should be reliable enough in that
    case.
    >
    >         Backing up to DVDs are quite unreliable too, a
    simple scratch
    >         could
    >         render the backup useless. Also it would require
    quite a lot
    >         of DVDs to
    >         backup my data (at least 500GB!).
    >
    >         The only other option I could think of is to use
    tapes, but
    >         this option
    >         can be quite pricy for a home user.
    >
    >         So I was wondering what you guys use for external
    backups for
    >         a home
    >         system containing at least 500GB worth of important
    data?
    >
    >         Regards
    >
    >         Hamzah
    >         --
    >         M. Hamzah Khan
    >         RedHat Certified Engineer Number: 804005539516829
    >         Email: hamzah@hamzahkhan.com
    >         URL: http://www.hamzahkhan.com
    >
    >         _______________________________________________
    >         CentOS mailing list
    >         CentOS@centos.org
    >         http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > CentOS mailing list
    > CentOS@centos.org
    > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

    --
    M. Hamzah Khan
    RedHat Certified Engineer Number: 804005539516829
    Email: hamzah@hamzahkhan.com
    URL: http://www.hamzahkhan.com

    Mobile: +44 (0)7525663951

    _______________________________________________
    CentOS mailing list
    CentOS@centos.org
    http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 21:10 -0400, Robert Heller wrote:

At Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:40:17 +0100 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:

...

Hey everyone,

My home server just had a disk failure a few weeks ago and like a lot of people I haven't ever really made backups on a regular basis. So I was looking into backup solutions which will save me from this situation again.

Now I have Bacula setup, and backing up my files onto my home server.

Although this works great, I have one issue: The disk in my server was the one that actually failed, and so, even with RAID1, could fail again. So to get around this I wanted to backup to external media aswell.

I don't really think external hard drives are that great considering they are just as reliable as internal hard drives which would be pointless as RAID1 should be reliable enough in that case.

The point to using an external hard drive is that unlike the internal one(s), the external one(s) would be 'idle' most of the time (only active during the actual backup process, which would be a once every n time units (once a day, once a week, whatever). Depending on the technology in use, 'inactive' can mean unmounted, sleep mode, powered off, disconnected, etc.

Thats true. Although I wanted to avoid hard drives mainly because they seem to have a failure rate which I'm not too comfortable with.

In the last 7 months, I've had to replace at least 9 disks, some due to a bad head which dropped and scrached a platter (although this was due to that model having a problem during manufacturing) and some due to bad sectors. Both of these issues can occur in external drives regardless of whether they are active or even switched off.

I've actually had issues with external drives in the past too, and have heard alot storys from friends and family who have had such issues too with external drives. The additional to spin ups and spin downs and extra knocking around doesn't really help keeping data safe. :)

I'm beginning to get the feeling that considering cost, storage space, and realiablilty the only really feasible solution would be to use hard drives in RAID5 or 6 with a large redundancy group.

I guess the likelyness of more than two disks failing at the same time is quite slim, especially if I have a large redundancy group. I could always keep a spare disk so if one disk fails I can replace it ASAP, reducing the chances of data loss even more.

...

Backing up to DVDs are quite unreliable too, a simple scratch could render the backup useless. Also it would require quite a lot of DVDs to backup my data (at least 500GB!).

The clue here is 'Jewel Cases!' Keep your CDs and DVDs in Jewel Cases. Don't store CDs and DVDs in sleves or on a spindle or other 'low cost' option. Use a proper Jewel Case.

I do use proper jewel cases, but even so I have found they aren't perfect at at keeping discs scratch free, besides using 63 dual layer DVDs to backup 500GB worth of data on a regular basis would really be a pain. :D

...

The only other option I could think of is to use tapes, but this option can be quite pricy for a home user.

Tapes are actually the worst option. All maner of failure modes, unless you go to extreme measures to protect them (which talks it from a pricy option to an imposibly pricy option).

...

So I was wondering what you guys use for external backups for a home system containing at least 500GB worth of important data?

I don't have disk that ginormous (and cannot imagine having disks that size). I have a 73gig SCSI system disk, that I do monthly fulls and daily incrementals to an enternal 120gig SATA 2.5" disk in an USB enclosure. I run a cron job that uses dump and a Tower Of Hanoi sequence. Monthly I manually burn DVDs of the previous months backups.

I actually have 4x1TB disks, but only 500GB is important.

The rest is historical stuff I keep for reference which although is unreplaceable, it would not be a huge loss if it were to be damaged. :)

...

Regards

Hamzah