Hi,
Ashton, Jeremy - Workstream Inc. wrote:
At least Frank took the initiative to write a document. Yes, there will be mistakes in it. No, it will not include all the information under the sun. Perhaps there are better documents or book available out there. But, at least he took the initiative to do his own work.
The only reason I pitched in is because, he is : (a) an idiot, with no idea of what he is talking about (b) has no regard for the work that we do (c) clueless about the idea of community and (d) I dont quite like the idea of pushing non-shareable / non-community friendly licensed material here, specially under the guise of 'hey, I am doing you all a favour'.
If what he is saying is correct and a community initiative cant work, we wont have Linux today where it is and people would not be making the sort of time and effort commitments they do into these projects.
Anyway, he asked a question - I just asked him to facilitate an answer. Unless, of-course, he does not really want an answer and was just taunting and blowing his own horn.
Once again I am reminded how immature the community can be at times. Can we not all get along and drop these childish antics and retorts?
Absolutely, I agree. Its a free world and people have a right to go do as they please - more so in these free software environs we like to live in, but you see what happens is that when someone is going to stand back and slagg off other people - other people have the right to call his antics just that. antics.
Finally, I await this bible-of-firewall docs that he has come up with.
- KB
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I will address your points in the order and manner in which you have made them.
(a) This ia an overly broad statement. What exactly do I not know that I am talking about, about?
(b) Where have I *EVER* stated that I had no regard for the work that you do. Show me ONE occurrence. You cannot, because I have not.
(c) How am I clueless about the idea of community? The last time I checked communities rallied together to help one another. I have offered my document FOR FREE to anyone that would like it. How is that not helping the community?
(d) It is perfectly shareable. I have stated on this list many times, and to people individually, that they are free to post it wherever they like. I've even stated on this list more than once that I would be happy to send anyone that asks the source Word file that was used. I have never told ANYONE that they could not post it anywhere. I stated that *I* could not afford to host it.
Where have I ever said that the community initiative doesn't or won't work? I've never stated that either. I stated that I had been burned by a wiki article to the point that lawyers were involved so I don't use wiki. I never stated that anyone else couldn't post the document to the wiki.
I am not sure what question you are referring to. Which one would that be? All I see are accusations and name calling, no questions.
Your sarcasm about my "bible of firewall docs" is petty and unbecoming. I never once stated that it was the be-all end-all of firewall documents. What I *DID* say, however, was that I compiled a document to help me out and thought that others in the community would like it. Nothing more and nothing less. I will be more than happy to send it to you, just like I have been more than happy to send it to everyone else. Let me know where you would like it sent to.
pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
(a) This ia an overly broad statement. What exactly do I not know that I am talking about, about?
The nature of the Centos Wiki for one thing, since you ranted on and on about things that don't apply there.
(c) How am I clueless about the idea of community? The last time I checked communities rallied together to help one another. I have offered my document FOR FREE to anyone that would like it. How is that not helping the community? (d) It is perfectly shareable. I have stated on this list many times, and to people individually, that they are free to post it wherever they like. I've even stated on this list more than once that I would be happy to send anyone that asks the source Word file that was used. I have never told ANYONE that they could not post it anywhere. I stated that *I* could not afford to host it.
Combine these two points. Everyone here knows that if the original authors of all the packages in Centos had restricted others from adding modifications and improving them it would not be usable today. For example, did anyone ever try running Linux back when Linus was the only contributor? While no one is saying that you have to give your work away under any particular terms, we all know we benefit if those terms permit future improvements by others because we are all using gigs of code and documents that developed that way. You shouldn't be surprised at the replies questioning your reasoning on this issue.
Your sarcasm about my "bible of firewall docs" is petty and unbecoming. I never once stated that it was the be-all end-all of firewall documents. What I *DID* say, however, was that I compiled a document to help me out and thought that others in the community would like it. Nothing more and nothing less.
But you did say more, particularly that no one could change it. That comes across like djb's attitude about qmail (which you'll note isn't a part of Centos for good reasons), as though no one else is qualified to touch (and certainly not improve) it.
On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 02:43:14PM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
modifications and improving them it would not be usable today. For example, did anyone ever try running Linux back when Linus was the only contributor? While no one is saying that you have to give your work
Was there ever really such a time? I used Linux back when the kernel was 0.11 and it came on two floppies (a boot image and a root image; the system couldn't even handle both on the one disk). I used 5.25" floppies. Dunno how much outside input was in Linux at that point. It was mostly a curio at that point, but I demoed it to my boss and we were both impressed :-)
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Les Mikesell -
pctech＠mybellybutton.com -
Stephen Harris