On Thu, April 26, 2012 08:55, Johnny Hughes wrote:
It has the network stack ... you must configure it during the install.
If you do not configure and enable the ethernet card then it does not turn on by default ... but it is in the installer to be able to do:
http://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS6#head-b67e85d98f0e9f1b599358105c551632c6ff...
Don't get the wrong idea here ... I think it is a very silly way to do installs to not default with the network turned on. It should be turned on ... but upstream decided it differently and I do not get to be the decider :D
I used to think the same thing. However, on reflection I think that the decision to keep the network down until deliberately enabled is a sensible and prudent security choice. This leaves up to the operator the decision as to whether or not a given system is sufficiently hardened against Internet attacks before connecting.
Now, consider upstream's decision to enable network-manager by default on an enterprise distro. THAT I both understand and fundamentally disagree with.
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM, James B. Byrne byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca wrote:
I used to think the same thing. However, on reflection I think that the decision to keep the network down until deliberately enabled is a sensible and prudent security choice. This leaves up to the operator the decision as to whether or not a given system is sufficiently hardened against Internet attacks before connecting.
Which way the default goes isn't a problem by itself, but having it set by a not-very obvious checkbox hidden out of the way with not mention of the need to check it seems like a pretty bad decision. And why would it ever be a good thing to not be able to do an update immediately after your first boot anyway?
Now, consider upstream's decision to enable network-manager by default on an enterprise distro. THAT I both understand and fundamentally disagree with.
Yes, that's a horrible thing for servers.
On Thursday, April 26, 2012 01:28:04 PM Les Mikesell wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM, James B. Byrne byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca wrote:
Now, consider upstream's decision to enable network-manager by default on an enterprise distro. THAT I both understand and fundamentally disagree with.
Yes, that's a horrible thing for servers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: enterprise != servers.
Regardless, the network manager things is not something CentOS is likely to change unless and until upstream changes, which is not likely at all.
But you're of course free to file a bug report against upstream......
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Lamar Owen lowen@pari.edu wrote:
Yes, that's a horrible thing for servers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: enterprise != servers.
How's that? What kind of enterprise doesn't have some servers with nailed down NICs?
On Thursday, April 26, 2012 02:12:20 PM Les Mikesell wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Lamar Owen lowen@pari.edu wrote:
Yes, that's a horrible thing for servers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: enterprise != servers.
How's that?
A distribution being an 'enterprise' distribution does not equate with that distribution being an (exclusively) 'server' distribution. While CentOS makes a great server distribution, that is a subset of what an enterprise distribution needs to be able to do.
And I've not had any NetworkManager issues with my upstream EL6.2 box running a local GUI, xrdp and vnc, some reverse ssh tunnels for remote maintenance of some dynamically addressed, behind-the-NAT boxes, among other things (development CMS/web serving, CIFS shares, and more, including a test OpenNMS instance). Multiple NICs, multiple subnets, and solid as a rock with nailed up addresses, running with NetworkManager. I've thus far not seen any of the issues others have seen, once I remembered to set up networking at install, and remembered the two checkboxes to check (which I've posted before on this list).
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Lamar Owen lowen@pari.edu wrote:
Yes, that's a horrible thing for servers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: enterprise != servers.
How's that?
A distribution being an 'enterprise' distribution does not equate with that distribution being an (exclusively) 'server' distribution. While CentOS makes a great server distribution, that is a subset of what an enterprise distribution needs to be able to do.
And I've not had any NetworkManager issues with my upstream EL6.2 box running a local GUI, xrdp and vnc, some reverse ssh tunnels for remote maintenance of some dynamically addressed, behind-the-NAT boxes, among other things (development CMS/web serving, CIFS shares, and more, including a test OpenNMS instance). Multiple NICs, multiple subnets, and solid as a rock with nailed up addresses, running with NetworkManager. I've thus far not seen any of the issues others have seen, once I remembered to set up networking at install, and remembered the two checkboxes to check (which I've posted before on this list).
But what is the point of running a daemon to manage something where you explicitly never, ever, under any circumstances want it to change, even if you are sometimes lucky about that part?
On 04/26/2012 01:12 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Lamar Owen lowen@pari.edu wrote:
Yes, that's a horrible thing for servers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: enterprise != servers.
How's that? What kind of enterprise doesn't have some servers with nailed down NICs?
I think what Lamar is saying is that Servers are not the only use for RHEL or CentOS in the enterprise.
There are many enterprises that use CentOS workstations as well as servers ... or many of the people use GUI servers or VNC or NX with X Windows on servers. Many enterprises use CentOS on mobile (in this case laptop or x86 tablet) devices for things like inventory control or Point of Sale systems ... OR kiosk systems. There are many, many uses of CentOS (or RHEL) in the enterprise that are not a server and/or use X. In most of those uses (other than a CLI only server), having NetworkManager setup the network is probably a good thing ... especially if there is a wireless device involved.
That is just where upstream is moving.
We are certainly not going to change the default installer behavior for CentOS to be non RHEL like.
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James B. Byrne -
Johnny Hughes -
Lamar Owen -
Les Mikesell