Shadies and Mentlemen;
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
(At this point I would be curious to know the different levels of sleep, what can I achieve? Does my server just drop into a low power state, or can I stop the hard drives as well?)
I am wondering if it is achievable to script the process of putting a server to sleep so I can cron tab its behind!
I would assume it would be possible but I don't know how, does anyone have any idea?
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/MU/U dpu s: a--> C++>$ U+> L++> B-> P+> E?> W+++>$ N K W++ O M++>$ V- PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP t 5 X+ R- tv+ b+> DI D+++ G+ e(+++++) h--(++) r++ z++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
On Mar 19, 2009, at 7:13 AM, James Bensley wrote:
I would assume it would be possible but I don't know how, does anyone have any idea?
http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/acpi/
-steve
-- If this were played upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction. - Fabian, Twelfth Night, III,v
James Bensley wrote:
Shadies and Mentlemen;
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
(At this point I would be curious to know the different levels of sleep, what can I achieve? Does my server just drop into a low power state, or can I stop the hard drives as well?)
I am wondering if it is achievable to script the process of putting a server to sleep so I can cron tab its behind!
I would assume it would be possible but I don't know how, does anyone have any idea?
You are probably best of putting your backup server on an already running server as a virtual machine. If you really have only one server running on your lan then you could also consider the following approach. I use the power-on-time BIOS feature most MB have. My server start itself every night at 01:55. It is then up and running just before 02:00. At 02:00 I schedule a cron job to do the backup. At the end of the backup, the script just powers off the machine. The only thing to experiment with is the time it takes to start the machine. Sometimes the startup takes longer if disks need to be checked (ext3, every so may boots) and the cron might not trigger. Using anacron is perhaps the safest option in this case, but I did not experiment with that. I could not use wake up on LAN, since the mirror is on a remote location were it is really the only server.
Theo
At Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:54:41 +0100 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
James Bensley wrote:
Shadies and Mentlemen;
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
(At this point I would be curious to know the different levels of sleep, what can I achieve? Does my server just drop into a low power state, or can I stop the hard drives as well?)
I am wondering if it is achievable to script the process of putting a server to sleep so I can cron tab its behind!
I would assume it would be possible but I don't know how, does anyone have any idea?
You are probably best of putting your backup server on an already running server as a virtual machine. If you really have only one server running on your lan then you could also consider the following approach. I use the power-on-time BIOS feature most MB have. My server start itself every night at 01:55. It is then up and running just before 02:00. At 02:00 I schedule a cron job to do the backup. At the end of the backup, the script just powers off the machine. The only thing to experiment with is the time it takes to start the machine. Sometimes the startup takes longer if disks need to be checked (ext3, every so may boots) and the cron might not trigger. Using anacron is perhaps the safest option in this case, but I did not experiment with that. I could not use wake up on LAN, since the mirror is on a remote location were it is really the only server.
You can also do a 'pull' backup -- the backup server runs the backup job, not the 'active' server(s). In this case, instead of cron jobs on the active machines, you reference the backup script rc.local on the backup server.
Theo _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Robert Heller wrote:
At Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:54:41 +0100 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
James Bensley wrote:
Shadies and Mentlemen;
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
(At this point I would be curious to know the different levels of sleep, what can I achieve? Does my server just drop into a low power state, or can I stop the hard drives as well?)
I am wondering if it is achievable to script the process of putting a server to sleep so I can cron tab its behind!
I would assume it would be possible but I don't know how, does anyone have any idea?
You are probably best of putting your backup server on an already running server as a virtual machine. If you really have only one server running on your lan then you could also consider the following approach. I use the power-on-time BIOS feature most MB have. My server start itself every night at 01:55. It is then up and running just before 02:00. At 02:00 I schedule a cron job to do the backup. At the end of the backup, the script just powers off the machine. The only thing to experiment with is the time it takes to start the machine. Sometimes the startup takes longer if disks need to be checked (ext3, every so may boots) and the cron might not trigger. Using anacron is perhaps the safest option in this case, but I did not experiment with that. I could not use wake up on LAN, since the mirror is on a remote location were it is really the only server.
You can also do a 'pull' backup -- the backup server runs the backup job, not the 'active' server(s). In this case, instead of cron jobs on the active machines, you reference the backup script rc.local on the backup server.
Yes that is what I indeed do. The initiative is taken by the backup server, not by the server that needs to be backed up. In principle both can be done if machines can talk to each other when up and running. In my situation my backup server is behind a home nat router and cannot be reached from the internet. The rc.local is indeed also an option that does not need cron. In my particular situation, the backup server is also used for normal use during daytime so I don't want the backups to start always when the machine is powered.
At Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:07:33 +0100 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
Robert Heller wrote:
At Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:54:41 +0100 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
James Bensley wrote:
Shadies and Mentlemen;
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
(At this point I would be curious to know the different levels of sleep, what can I achieve? Does my server just drop into a low power state, or can I stop the hard drives as well?)
I am wondering if it is achievable to script the process of putting a server to sleep so I can cron tab its behind!
I would assume it would be possible but I don't know how, does anyone have any idea?
You are probably best of putting your backup server on an already running server as a virtual machine. If you really have only one server running on your lan then you could also consider the following approach. I use the power-on-time BIOS feature most MB have. My server start itself every night at 01:55. It is then up and running just before 02:00. At 02:00 I schedule a cron job to do the backup. At the end of the backup, the script just powers off the machine. The only thing to experiment with is the time it takes to start the machine. Sometimes the startup takes longer if disks need to be checked (ext3, every so may boots) and the cron might not trigger. Using anacron is perhaps the safest option in this case, but I did not experiment with that. I could not use wake up on LAN, since the mirror is on a remote location were it is really the only server.
You can also do a 'pull' backup -- the backup server runs the backup job, not the 'active' server(s). In this case, instead of cron jobs on the active machines, you reference the backup script rc.local on the backup server.
Yes that is what I indeed do. The initiative is taken by the backup server, not by the server that needs to be backed up. In principle both can be done if machines can talk to each other when up and running. In my situation my backup server is behind a home nat router and cannot be reached from the internet. The rc.local is indeed also an option that does not need cron. In my particular situation, the backup server is also used for normal use during daytime so I don't want the backups to start always when the machine is powered.
One can always put a time check in the rc.local file (or the script it starts). Eg if time-of-day >= 2am and time-of-day < 2:30am then start backup. This allows for a slow boot up (eg slow fsck or something like that). It is also possible for rc.local to start a backup daemon which checks local system activity and might do a back at some other time if the local load a really light and/or the time is some other 'dead of night' period, such as at 3am or 4am, if it appears that the 2am backup failed to start for some reason. This also allows for a 'failsafe' backup -- where you can arrange for the backup server to be fired up at additional dead period times.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
From: James Bensley Sent: March 19, 2009 04:13
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
I can not comment on how to do what your asking but I can see one potential problem. If your solution involves booting the backup server and during the boot an error is detected in the filesystem check the boot process will halt waiting for you to manually correct the problem. Of course you can avoid the problem by making your backup scripts on the primary server can implement a time limit on the wait for the backup server and if the wait times out then skip the backup.
Someone out there more knowledgeable then I (and there are many<g>) may be able to suggest a way to alter the boot to avoid the filesystem check (or the halt).
HTH
Regards, Hugh
Hugh E Cruickshank wrote:
From: James Bensley Sent: March 19, 2009 04:13
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
I can not comment on how to do what your asking but I can see one potential problem. If your solution involves booting the backup server and during the boot an error is detected in the filesystem check the boot process will halt waiting for you to manually correct the problem. Of course you can avoid the problem by making your backup scripts on the primary server can implement a time limit on the wait for the backup server and if the wait times out then skip the backup.
Someone out there more knowledgeable then I (and there are many<g>) may be able to suggest a way to alter the boot to avoid the filesystem check (or the halt).
I would not disable the filesystem check at boot. Those checks are needed. You can lower the frequency of checking using tune2fs (not needed to check after a certain number of boots if you boot daily). I think it is good practice to check your backup status on a regular basis anyway. You would notice a problem with your backup server in this way.
Theo Band wrote:
Hugh E Cruickshank wrote:
From: James Bensley Sent: March 19, 2009 04:13
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
I can not comment on how to do what your asking but I can see one potential problem. If your solution involves booting the backup server and during the boot an error is detected in the filesystem check the boot process will halt waiting for you to manually correct the problem. Of course you can avoid the problem by making your backup scripts on the primary server can implement a time limit on the wait for the backup server and if the wait times out then skip the backup.
Someone out there more knowledgeable then I (and there are many<g>) may be able to suggest a way to alter the boot to avoid the filesystem check (or the halt).
I would not disable the filesystem check at boot. Those checks are needed. You can lower the frequency of checking using tune2fs (not needed to check after a certain number of boots if you boot daily). I think it is good practice to check your backup status on a regular basis anyway. You would notice a problem with your backup server in this way.
I never figured out why the manufacturers thought that ATX was better than AT when it comes to Green? Yeah, off topic a bit, but an AT machine when turned off disconnects the power supply from the current. ATX, just powers down the computer, leaving the PS in a lowered power state, but apparently this can draw up to 60% of the working power needed. Funny to me that at the same time ATX came out, suddenly "Green" started showing on the bios screens. Yeah, it sleeps better during the day during non-use times until you get tired of waiting for it to wake up and turn all of that off, but it doesn't sleep nearly as well at night when everyone has quit for the day.... unless you put it on a switchable power strip. And I bet most people have no idea about the power consumption of an ATX machine and think it's using no power when the computer is not running.
Of course, this has nothing to do with full time servers. We are wasteful in so many ways. TVs... same deal, just so that when we turn them on they start up faster.... and on and on and on it goes. But it is good that you are trying to help with your backup server.
It would be interesting to put a wattmeter inline on the power cord to see how much current it's drawing running vs. in sleep state. I guess with an AT machine, one would have to use one of those old timers that switch on a plug.... something else that uses a bit of electricity, but I bet less than a power supply in sleep mode. Actually, one of those timers might be a good solution for you if you really want to be green.
John Hinton
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:22 PM, John Hinton webmaster@ew3d.com wrote:
ATX, just powers down the computer, leaving the PS in a lowered power state, but apparently this can draw up to 60% of the working power needed.
60% would be a gross exaggeration, off the top of my head, an "OFF" ATX PSU draws less than 10W, maybe a few more in terms of VA due to inefficiency at really low power. But certainly no way near 60% unless you are referring to one of those new Atoms/Nano platform. Even then, they usually come with PSU optimized for low power operation.
It would be interesting to put a wattmeter inline on the power cord to see how much current it's drawing running vs. in sleep state. I guess with an AT machine, one would have to use one of those old timers that switch on a plug.... something else that uses a bit of electricity, but I bet less than a power supply in sleep mode.
Including conversion inefficiency, my gaming PC sucks some 180W on idle, I just sent it into standby and my wattmeter says 4W. It isn't spec'd to be accurate at less than 10W so the actual draw could range from 2W to 8W. Certainly nothing too significant, the total environmental cost including materials and energy is likely less than a new timer :)
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:13 PM, James Bensley jwbensley@gmail.com wrote:
Shadies and Mentlemen;
I am trying to be green and put our backup servers to sleep during the day and have them wake on LAN and fire back up at night for our nightly backups as "sleep" is a sort of low power usage mode.
Make sure you are not using Seagate 7200.11 series hard disks for this unless you've somehow obtained and updated the firmwire. Frequent power cycles increases the chances that you will hit their firmware bug that apparently bricks the drive if the drive internal log is at some specific entry number before the power cycle. Was part of the recent Seagate fiasco.
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Hugh E Cruickshank -
James Bensley -
John Hinton -
Noob Centos Admin -
Robert Heller -
Steve Huff -
Theo Band