Hi all,
I'm a bit of a newbie to CentOS though not Linux in general. I come from an apt-get package management mentality and I've had a few issues where package management actions haven't quite done what I'd expect. So I'm guessing it's user error! :)
I installed GNOME and then decided that I wanted to install Xfce to try it out. I decided to then remove it with just 'yum remove' after playing with it a bit. It seemed to uninstall a lot of GNOME stuff (presumably that they had in common) and so the next time I tried to use GNOME it looked different and was missing a few components. Should I have just reverted the install of Xfce to undo it so that those dependencies would've have been touched or is this just how yum works?
Shaun wrote:
Hi all,
I'm a bit of a newbie to CentOS though not Linux in general. I come from an apt-get package management mentality and I've had a few issues where package management actions haven't quite done what I'd expect. So I'm guessing it's user error! :)
Personally, having struggled a few times with apt-get (and trying to remove old kernels in ubuntu! *ack*), I like yum.
I installed GNOME and then decided that I wanted to install Xfce to try it out. I decided to then remove it with just 'yum remove' after playing with it a bit. It seemed to uninstall a lot of GNOME stuff (presumably that they had in common) and so the next time I tried to use GNOME it looked different and was missing a few components. Should I have just reverted the install of Xfce to undo it so that those dependencies would've have been touched or is this just how yum works?
Why uninstall, unless you're short of disk space? You can always just change your window manager. And gnome has a ludicrous number of interdependencies.
mark
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Shaun centos@stinkfish.org wrote:
Hi all,
I'm a bit of a newbie to CentOS though not Linux in general. I come from an apt-get package management mentality and I've had a few issues where package management actions haven't quite done what I'd expect. So I'm guessing it's user error! :)
I installed GNOME and then decided that I wanted to install Xfce to try it out. I decided to then remove it with just 'yum remove' after playing with it a bit. It seemed to uninstall a lot of GNOME stuff (presumably that they had in common) and so the next time I tried to use GNOME it looked different and was missing a few components. Should I have just reverted the install of Xfce to undo it so that those dependencies would've have been touched or is this just how yum works?
You can't really generalize about that. Yum just does what the dependencies of the rpm packages you install or remove tell it to do. A "yum groupinstall 'GNOME Desktop Environment'" might bring back anything that is missing.
On 26/04/2012 15:58, Les Mikesell wrote:
You can't really generalize about that. Yum just does what the dependencies of the rpm packages you install or remove tell it to do. A "yum groupinstall 'GNOME Desktop Environment'" might bring back anything that is missing.
Well I was kinda expecting it to not remove the shared dependencies leaving GNOME fairly broken.
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:34
On 26/04/2012 15:58, Les Mikesell wrote:
You can't really generalize about that. Yum just does what the dependencies of the rpm packages you install or remove tell
it to do.
A "yum groupinstall 'GNOME Desktop Environment'" might bring back anything that is missing.
Well I was kinda expecting it to not remove the shared dependencies leaving GNOME fairly broken.
There have been times where RHEL rpms do not list the needed dependencies (or lis the wrong ones). If you can articulate which packages were removed (check you logs) and what the remove should have done a bug can be filed.
-Jason
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us - - Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100 - - +1 (443) 269-1555 x333 Baltimore, Maryland 21218 - - - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This message is copyright PD Inc, subject to license 20080407P00.
On 04/26/2012 05:45 PM, Jason Pyeron wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:34
On 26/04/2012 15:58, Les Mikesell wrote:
You can't really generalize about that. Yum just does what the dependencies of the rpm packages you install or remove tell
it to do.
A "yum groupinstall 'GNOME Desktop Environment'" might bring back anything that is missing.
Well I was kinda expecting it to not remove the shared dependencies leaving GNOME fairly broken.
There have been times where RHEL rpms do not list the needed dependencies (or lis the wrong ones). If you can articulate which packages were removed (check you logs) and what the remove should have done a bug can be filed.
yum history list yum history info <number given transaction>
and yum history undo yum history redo, ... ...
On 26/04/2012 22:08, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: (snip)
yum history list yum history info <number given transaction>
and yum history undo yum history redo, ... ...
Well this is it. I've used both 'remove' and 'history undo' and had better success (system not having something important removed) with the latter.
.. and so I was wondering whether it's advised to use this form rather than yum remove, and to find out why 'remove' is less successful (or if it's just me!).
Another example I had recently was when I installed Networkmanager-openswan and then after installing realised that it didn't support L2TP/IPSec VPNs so I uninstalled it, again with 'yum remove'. It removed the WiFi applet from the Gnome panel, which wasn't what I was expecting. I had to reinstall networkmanager to get it back.
It just seems I should probably be more cautious of inspecting proposed system changes when doing 'yum remove' but just wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing something wrong.
There is a nice sheet on the differences between apt and yum on distrowatch's website which I've RTFM'd obviously :)
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 4:15
On 26/04/2012 22:08, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: (snip)
yum history list yum history info <number given transaction>
and yum history undo yum history redo, ... ...
Well this is it. I've used both 'remove' and 'history undo' and had better success (system not having something important removed) with the latter.
.. and so I was wondering whether it's advised to use this form rather than yum remove, and to find out why 'remove' is less successful (or if it's just me!).
Again, it is not yum's fault of which packages are being removed. It is the dependencies listed by each installed application in the original rpm file. If you post specifics this can be addressed.
Another example I had recently was when I installed Networkmanager-openswan and then after installing realised that it didn't support L2TP/IPSec VPNs so I uninstalled it, again with 'yum remove'. It removed the WiFi applet from the
Are you saying that you had the applet in the gnome panel prior to installing the network manager rpm and then when you removed the network manager rpm (via yum) it yanked the applet too? If so which version of Centos and which version of network manager was it?
Gnome panel, which wasn't what I was expecting. I had to reinstall networkmanager to get it back.
It just seems I should probably be more cautious of inspecting proposed system changes when doing 'yum remove' but just wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing something wrong.
There is a nice sheet on the differences between apt and yum on distrowatch's website which I've RTFM'd obviously :)
Googling found many here is one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromLinux/RedHatEnterpri... nuxAndFedora
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us - - Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100 - - +1 (443) 269-1555 x333 Baltimore, Maryland 21218 - - - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This message is copyright PD Inc, subject to license 20080407P00.
On 27/04/2012 12:24, Jason Pyeron wrote:
Are you saying that you had the applet in the gnome panel prior to installing the network manager rpm and then when you removed the network manager rpm (via yum) it yanked the applet too? If so which version of Centos and which version of network manager was it?
This is precisely what I'm saying. And this to me is unexpected behaviour.
Centos 6.2 and the networkmanager package that's in base.
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Shaun centos@stinkfish.org wrote:
On 27/04/2012 12:24, Jason Pyeron wrote:
Are you saying that you had the applet in the gnome panel prior to installing the network manager rpm and then when you removed the network manager rpm (via yum) it yanked the applet too? If so which version of Centos and which version of network manager was it?
This is precisely what I'm saying. And this to me is unexpected behaviour.
What did you expect:
Removing for dependencies: NetworkManager-gnome
meant before you confirmed the yum action?
On 27/04/2012 14:05, Les Mikesell wrote:
What did you expect:
Removing for dependencies: NetworkManager-gnome
meant before you confirmed the yum action?
Well if that was what was presented to me as an action then I obviously need to be more vigilant! :) In fact I had similar issues in Fedora and weird things happening adding/removing packages.
But then the reason why I didn't pay as much attention in the first place is because I *assumed that only that removed-pacakage and dependencies brought in by it at the install-time would be removed via a yum remove.
Maybe there are differences in the dependency management that I need to go read about..?
Thanks.
* assumption being the mother of ..
On 04/27/2012 08:26 AM, Shaun wrote:
On 27/04/2012 14:05, Les Mikesell wrote:
What did you expect:
Removing for dependencies: NetworkManager-gnome
meant before you confirmed the yum action?
Well if that was what was presented to me as an action then I obviously need to be more vigilant! :) In fact I had similar issues in Fedora and weird things happening adding/removing packages.
But then the reason why I didn't pay as much attention in the first place is because I *assumed that only that removed-pacakage and dependencies brought in by it at the install-time would be removed via a yum remove.
Maybe there are differences in the dependency management that I need to go read about..?
Yum is great for adding packages. I never use it to remove packages.
I might use it to give me a list of packages to remove and then modify that list and then do:
rpm -e $(cat list.txt)
If I do use yum to remove a package group, then I would install "X Window System", "Desktop" and any other things that might be impacted.
Yum always has, IMHO, removed too many things when using it to uninstall.
27.4.2012 16:26, Shaun kirjoitti:
But then the reason why I didn't pay as much attention in the first place is because I *assumed that only that removed-pacakage and dependencies brought in by it at the install-time would be removed via a yum remove.
So the real problem is that you don't understand the directionality of dependencies. "yum install packagename" installs packagename + anything that packagename requires. "yum remove packagename" removes packagename + anything that requires packagename. The set of packages required by packagename and the set of packages that require packagename are two entirely different things.
For example, let's have three packages A, B, and C where B requires A and C requires B: A<-B<-C "yum install C" will install all three packages. "yum remove C" would remove only C. "yum remove B" would remove B and C. "yum remove A" would remove all three packages
Markku Kolkka wrote:
27.4.2012 16:26, Shaun kirjoitti:
But then the reason why I didn't pay as much attention in the first place is because I *assumed that only that removed-pacakage and dependencies brought in by it at the install-time would be removed via a yum remove.
So the real problem is that you don't understand the directionality of dependencies. "yum install packagename" installs packagename + anything that packagename requires. "yum remove packagename" removes packagename
- anything that requires packagename. The set of packages required by
packagename and the set of packages that require packagename are two entirely different things.
For example, let's have three packages A, B, and C where B requires A and C requires B: A<-B<-C "yum install C" will install all three packages. "yum remove C" would remove only C. "yum remove B" would remove B and C. "yum remove A" would remove all three packages
Ok, so deepen my understanding of yum: what about where package A requires B and C, and package D also requires B. If I yum uninstall A, what happens to B? Obviously, if it goes away, then D is broken....
mark
On 04/27/2012 09:03 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
Markku Kolkka wrote:
27.4.2012 16:26, Shaun kirjoitti:
But then the reason why I didn't pay as much attention in the first place is because I *assumed that only that removed-pacakage and dependencies brought in by it at the install-time would be removed via a yum remove.
So the real problem is that you don't understand the directionality of dependencies. "yum install packagename" installs packagename + anything that packagename requires. "yum remove packagename" removes packagename
- anything that requires packagename. The set of packages required by
packagename and the set of packages that require packagename are two entirely different things.
For example, let's have three packages A, B, and C where B requires A and C requires B: A<-B<-C "yum install C" will install all three packages. "yum remove C" would remove only C. "yum remove B" would remove B and C. "yum remove A" would remove all three packages
Ok, so deepen my understanding of yum: what about where package A requires B and C, and package D also requires B. If I yum uninstall A, what happens to B? Obviously, if it goes away, then D is broken....
mark
It also recommends removing D
Yum will remove too much.
Johnny Hughes wrote:
On 04/27/2012 09:03 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
Markku Kolkka wrote:
<snip>
For example, let's have three packages A, B, and C where B requires A and C requires B: A<-B<-C "yum install C" will install all three packages. "yum remove C" would remove only C. "yum remove B" would remove B and C. "yum remove A" would remove all three packages
Ok, so deepen my understanding of yum: what about where package A requires B and C, and package D also requires B. If I yum uninstall A,
what
happens to B? Obviously, if it goes away, then D is broken....
It also recommends removing D
Yum will remove too much.
Oy. Thanks, Johnny. I'll watch out for that in the future....
mark
On 27/04/2012 14:56, Markku Kolkka wrote:
So the real problem is that you don't understand the directionality of dependencies.
Almost certainly :)
"yum install packagename" installs packagename + anything that packagename requires. "yum remove packagename" removes packagename
- anything that requires packagename. The set of packages required by
packagename and the set of packages that require packagename are two entirely different things.
Yes, I thought "yum remove packagename" would remove the packagename plus any dependencies that were INSTALLED by the "yum install packagename" action. That is, I expected it to NOT remove dependency packages that were already present when "yum install packagename" was performed.
So a misunderstanding on my part.
I just need to be really careful about the remove command in future.
On 04/27/2012 04:49 PM, Shaun wrote:
On 27/04/2012 14:56, Markku Kolkka wrote:
So the real problem is that you don't understand the directionality of dependencies.
Almost certainly :)
"yum install packagename" installs packagename + anything that packagename requires. "yum remove packagename" removes packagename
- anything that requires packagename. The set of packages required by
packagename and the set of packages that require packagename are two entirely different things.
Yes, I thought "yum remove packagename" would remove the packagename plus any dependencies that were INSTALLED by the "yum install packagename" action. That is, I expected it to NOT remove dependency packages that were already present when "yum install packagename" was performed.
So a misunderstanding on my part.
I just need to be really careful about the remove command in future.
Give us the history listing (from info) and let us se what was done to it.
Shaun centos@stinkfish.org wrote:
I just need to be really careful about the remove command in future.
I've found that breaking things is always the fastest path to a great education.
On 30/04/2012 02:20, Spiro Harvey wrote:
Shaun centos@stinkfish.org wrote:
I just need to be really careful about the remove command in future.
I've found that breaking things is always the fastest path to a great education.
I'd certainly agree with that :)
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Shaun centos@stinkfish.org wrote:
You can't really generalize about that. Yum just does what the dependencies of the rpm packages you install or remove tell it to do. A "yum groupinstall 'GNOME Desktop Environment'" might bring back anything that is missing.
Well I was kinda expecting it to not remove the shared dependencies leaving GNOME fairly broken.
It wouldn't, if they are actually listed as dependencies in a remaining package. If they were just optional components, they are fair game, though.
-
Jason Pyeron -
Johnny Hughes -
Les Mikesell -
Ljubomir Ljubojevic -
m.roth＠5-cent.us -
Markku Kolkka -
Shaun -
Spiro Harvey