My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
-Jason
On 12/29/2009 11:13 PM, Slack-Moehrle wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
Hi Jason,
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
IIRC there was CentOS 4.6, but I'm not sure. Is it a 'Sun Ultra 5' or a 'SPARCstation 5'?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does,
Yes, and it does it perfectly.
but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
Solaris support will end with Solaris 9, maybe you can tweak it to run Solaris 10, but I'm not sure. I had an Ultra 10/440 some years ago, I think I remember that there were issues back then.
He also says that ZFS rules all
Yap, it's nice. If he wants ZFS and maybe wants to become a great hacker, he may want to have a look at FreeBSD for sparc64; it's not a first tier architecture, so there maybe some adventures during installation/use, but it could be worth a try... ;)
and is pissed Apple did not adopt it.
Nah, they didn't need it for their iPods. Or do they still build computers (or, 'Mac'-labeled PeeCee hardware)? SCNR.
Kids will be kids!
-Jason
HTH,
Timo
Timo,
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
IIRC there was CentOS 4.6, but I'm not sure. Is it a 'Sun Ultra 5' or a 'SPARCstation 5'?
It is a Sun Ultra 5
He also says that ZFS rules all
Yap, it's nice. If he wants ZFS and maybe wants to become a great hacker, he may want to have a look at FreeBSD for sparc64; it's not a first tier architecture, so there maybe some adventures during installation/use, but it could be worth a try... ;)
Ah, I forgot about FreeBSD.
and is pissed Apple did not adopt it.
Nah, they didn't need it for their iPods. Or do they still build computers (or, 'Mac'-labeled PeeCee hardware)? SCNR.
I think I saw that my local Apple Store did have one computer for sale..maybe more :)
-Jason
On 12/29/2009 11:28 PM, Slack-Moehrle wrote:
Timo,
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
IIRC there was CentOS 4.6, but I'm not sure. Is it a 'Sun Ultra 5' or a 'SPARCstation 5'?
It is a Sun Ultra 5
He also says that ZFS rules all
Yap, it's nice. If he wants ZFS and maybe wants to become a great hacker, he may want to have a look at FreeBSD for sparc64; it's not a first tier architecture, so there maybe some adventures during installation/use, but it could be worth a try... ;)
Ah, I forgot about FreeBSD.
FreeBSD has got the most mature ZFS implementation of the BSDs; however, NetBSD also got ZFS now (you have to use -current for this), and is the 'more geeky' BSD, if I may say so. I like it most of the BSDs. Also, their sparc64 port is very good. I ran it on the U10 I had.
and is pissed Apple did not adopt it.
Nah, they didn't need it for their iPods. Or do they still build computers (or, 'Mac'-labeled PeeCee hardware)? SCNR.
I think I saw that my local Apple Store did have one computer for sale..maybe more :)
Just kidding.
-Jason
Timo
Jason:
Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Check out http://sparc.centos.org
Neil
-- Neil Aggarwal, (281)846-8957, http://UnmeteredVPS.net CentOS 5.4 VPS with unmetered bandwidth only $25/month! No overage charges, 7 day free trial, PayPal, Google Checkout
----- "Slack-Moehrle" mailinglists@mailnewsrss.com wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
Fantastic! Nothing helps creativity and exploration like the support of a parent.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Some older CentOS versions may have supported SPARC. Recently, I've been running Debian and FreeBSD on my SPARC gear with no problems to speak of. IIRC, your best bet these days besides Solaris on SPARC is going to be either NetBSD or OpenBSD in terms of support and completeness.
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
See above. :-)
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
You should go into a rant about "When I was your age... we didn't have ZFS, or Reiserfs, or even ext2/3. We had FAT. And we liked it. And nobody complained. Not like you young punks have it with your 'journaling' this and 'snapshots' that."
--Tim
Hi Tim,
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
Fantastic! Nothing helps creativity and exploration like the support of a parent.
He is really into the command-line. His mac is always open to a terminal and he explores how to use each command, practices and memorizes every switch. The other day he reminded me that the -h for du was human readable. Little did he know I can easily convert in my head without using -h...but.
Also, when you catch him ssh'ing into your production web-server and notice he has all of your passwords written in a text file called 'dont show dad', he is ready for his own server. Also, I had to tell him that 'dont show dad' was not the best name and draws attention from a dad....he he..
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
You should go into a rant about "When I was your age... we didn't have ZFS, or Reiserfs, or even ext2/3. We had FAT. And we >liked it. And nobody complained. Not like you young punks have it with your 'journaling' this and 'snapshots' that."
ha ha, great idea. I am only 32, but still it is true. He things that his MacBook pro with 4gb RAM, 500gb hd is sub-par these days. He can only run a 'few' virtual machines and insists on dual NICS...
Is he a geek?
-Jason
On Dec 29, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Slack-Moehrle mailinglists@mailnewsrss.com wrote:
Hi Tim,
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
Fantastic! Nothing helps creativity and exploration like the support of a parent.
He is really into the command-line. His mac is always open to a terminal and he explores how to use each command, practices and memorizes every switch. The other day he reminded me that the -h for du was human readable. Little did he know I can easily convert in my head without using -h...but.
Mac's run FreeBSD underneath, he has more power in his MacBook pro then that old sparc5.
Introduce him to MacPorts.
Also, when you catch him ssh'ing into your production web-server and notice he has all of your passwords written in a text file called 'dont show dad', he is ready for his own server. Also, I had to tell him that 'dont show dad' was not the best name and draws attention from a dad....he he..
Maybe time to pick some new passwords...
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
You should go into a rant about "When I was your age... we didn't have ZFS, or Reiserfs, or even ext2/3. We had FAT. And we >liked it. And nobody complained. Not like you young punks have it with your 'journaling' this and 'snapshots' that."
ha ha, great idea. I am only 32, but still it is true. He things that his MacBook pro with 4gb RAM, 500gb hd is sub-par these days. He can only run a 'few' virtual machines and insists on dual NICS...
You can do a lot on a MacBook. Boot camp can setup multiple OS partitions to boot from. I typically have a Windows and Linux partition.
Is he a geek?
Does he bite the heads off chickens? If not then, no he isn't a geek. All children these days will have computer skills that dwarf those of our generation and the "geeks" will be those that can do things with the machines that we could never dream of.
-Ross
On 12/29/2009 11:42 PM, Slack-Moehrle wrote:
Hi Tim,
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
Fantastic! Nothing helps creativity and exploration like the support of a parent.
He is really into the command-line. His mac is always open to a terminal and he explores how to use each command, practices and memorizes every switch. The other day he reminded me that the -h for du was human readable. Little did he know I can easily convert in my head without using -h...but.
Also, when you catch him ssh'ing into your production web-server and notice he has all of your passwords written in a text file called 'dont show dad', he is ready for his own server. Also, I had to tell him that 'dont show dad' was not the best name and draws attention from a dad....he he..
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
You should go into a rant about "When I was your age... we didn't have ZFS, or Reiserfs, or even ext2/3. We had FAT. And we >liked it. And nobody complained. Not like you young punks have it with your 'journaling' this and 'snapshots' that."
ha ha, great idea. I am only 32, but still it is true. He things that his MacBook pro with 4gb RAM, 500gb hd is sub-par these days. He can only run a 'few' virtual machines and insists on dual NICS...
Is he a geek?
Yap. :D
-Jason
Timo
Tim Nelson wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
Fantastic! Nothing helps creativity and exploration like the support of a parent.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Some older CentOS versions may have supported SPARC. Recently, I've been running Debian and FreeBSD on my SPARC gear with no problems to speak of. IIRC, your best bet these days besides Solaris on SPARC is going to be either NetBSD or OpenBSD in terms of support and completeness.
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
See above. :-)
Opensolaris would seem to be the obvious choice to run on a sparc.
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
You should go into a rant about "When I was your age... we didn't have ZFS, or Reiserfs, or even ext2/3. We had FAT. And we liked it. And nobody complained. Not like you young punks have it with your 'journaling' this and 'snapshots' that."
Nobody liked FAT. Or the dozens of incompatible variations it took to go from the original 32 Meg size limit to whatever the 'you won't ever need more than ...' value is now.
And Apple never likes to include anything extra for free in an OS release. They always save the things you want so you have to throw out your old version and buy again when they do include it in some future update.
On Tuesday 29 December 2009 17:13:52 Slack-Moehrle wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
I'm sorry if I missed something - but why not just run Solaris 10 then? It works on an Ultra 5 if you don't need zfs root or have 512MB.
Peter.
Hi Peter,
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
I'm sorry if I missed something - but why not just run Solaris 10 then? It works on an Ultra 5 if you don't need zfs root or have 512MB.
I think the machine has 256 now, but I should be able to find some 128 cheap at my local computer store.
Solaris 10 does work though? I thought it didn't. This machine is this one:
http://www.fouldsy.com/wp-content/images/uploads/ultra5s.jpg
-Jason
On 12/29/2009 05:36 PM, Slack-Moehrle wrote:
Hi Peter,
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
I'm sorry if I missed something - but why not just run Solaris 10 then? It works on an Ultra 5 if you don't need zfs root or have 512MB.
I think the machine has 256 now, but I should be able to find some 128 cheap at my local computer store.
Solaris 10 does work though? I thought it didn't. This machine is this one:
http://www.fouldsy.com/wp-content/images/uploads/ultra5s.jpg
-Jason
Don't know, man but that looks like a sparc 5 which is *not* able to run Solaris 10.
Phil
Jason,
5 will run solaris 10 with a few initial issues. You may have to install 8 or 9 first and then do a firmware upgrade to get 10 to boot for installation. Also, 512MB max will restrict you in what you can do. ZfS boot is possible but slow and in general use, you want to reduce the size of zfs caches. Finally, depending on the graphics card, you may not be able to get a graphical login. But since you said your son wants to do cli f and knows all the commands already, that wouldn't be such a big issue.
Peter.
On Tuesday 29 December 2009 17:36:28 Slack-Moehrle wrote:
Hi Peter,
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
He also says that ZFS rules all and is pissed Apple did not adopt it. Kids will be kids!
I'm sorry if I missed something - but why not just run Solaris 10 then? It works on an Ultra 5 if you don't need zfs root or have 512MB.
I think the machine has 256 now, but I should be able to find some 128 cheap at my local computer store.
Solaris 10 does work though? I thought it didn't. This machine is this one:
http://www.fouldsy.com/wp-content/images/uploads/ultra5s.jpg
-Jason _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Peter A wrote:
Jason,
5 will run solaris 10 with a few initial issues. You may have to install 8 or 9 first and then do a firmware upgrade to get 10 to boot for installation. Also, 512MB max will restrict you in what you can do. ZfS boot is possible but slow and in general use, you want to reduce the size of zfs caches. Finally, depending on the graphics card, you may not be able to get a graphical login. But since you said your son wants to do cli f and knows all the commands already, that wouldn't be such a big issue.
indeed, since it has one slow IDE disk and 512MB max, I would likely just format it as one big UFS root, and a gig or two of swap/tmpfs ... I would not use ZFS on that machine.
If you do go the scsi controller route, and get two scsi disks, make one /export
OH, and I just remembered. the Ultra 10 uses the same memory board, but has a little more room in the chassis, and supports 4 x 256MB tall dimms of the right type, for 1GB. you can get away with this in hte U5 by hacking a bit on the inside. catch is, the low profile 256MB modules that fit the U5 are kinda expensive, http://www.memoryxsun.com/mx7039al.html (2 of these kits). oh, same vendor cheaper on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-512MB-2x256MB-Sun-Ultra-5-10-low-profile-X7039A-L_W0...
these tall ones will require a bit of kit bashing to fit, http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Ultra-10-Memory-1GB-4x256MB-50NS-X7039A_W0QQitemZ400...
.
OH, and I just remembered. the Ultra 10 uses the same memory board, but has a little more room in the chassis, and supports 4 x 256MB tall dimms of the right type, for 1GB. you can get away with this in hte U5 by hacking a bit on the inside. catch is, the low profile 256MB modules that fit the U5 are kinda expensive, http://www.memoryxsun.com/mx7039al.html (2 of these kits). oh, same vendor cheaper on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-512MB-2x256MB-Sun-Ultra-5-10-low-profile-X7039A-L_W 0QQitemZ110420793813QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Networking_Components?hash=i tem19b59799d5#ht_500wt_956
these tall ones will require a bit of kit bashing to fit, http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Ultra-10-Memory-1GB-4x256MB-50NS-X7039A_W0QQitemZ40 0089670137QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Workstations?hash=item5d2733e1f9#ht_50 0wt_956
True - but if you spend that kind of money, you can often pick up a SB1000 for the same money. Single 750Mhz cpu will still be significantly faster than the < 400Mhz processor in a Ultra 5 and they all come with at least 1GB and FC disks.
Peter.
On 12/30/2009 04:43 AM, Peter A wrote:
OH, and I just remembered. the Ultra 10 uses the same memory board, but has a little more room in the chassis, and supports 4 x 256MB tall dimms of the right type, for 1GB. you can get away with this in hte U5 by hacking a bit on the inside. catch is, the low profile 256MB modules that fit the U5 are kinda expensive, http://www.memoryxsun.com/mx7039al.html (2 of these kits). oh, same vendor cheaper on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-512MB-2x256MB-Sun-Ultra-5-10-low-profile-X7039A-L_W 0QQitemZ110420793813QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Networking_Components?hash=i tem19b59799d5#ht_500wt_956
these tall ones will require a bit of kit bashing to fit, http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Ultra-10-Memory-1GB-4x256MB-50NS-X7039A_W0QQitemZ40 0089670137QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Workstations?hash=item5d2733e1f9#ht_50 0wt_956
True - but if you spend that kind of money, you can often pick up a SB1000 for the same money. Single 750Mhz cpu will still be significantly faster than the < 400Mhz processor in a Ultra 5 and they all come with at least 1GB and FC disks.
+1
These days Blade 1000 (even dual CPU configs) never reach the 100US$ mark. Even a Blade 2000 (some special edition) didn't, what made me upset when I missed to bid for it... ;(
However, you have to keep in mind that, especially compared to his notebook, such machines consume a lot of energy and produce a lot of noise and heat -- more or less. The sgi Octane I have is definitely a sucker wrt, while an IBM IntelliPower (one of the later, Power4+ or Power5 ones) isn't -- they're quite silent.
Peter.
Timo
Slack-Moehrle wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
the Ultra 5 (and its cousin the Ultra 10) is penalized by having a programmed IO IDE channel which can transfer a max 6MB/sec at 100% CPU bound.
some technical details here, http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/U5/U5&am... http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/U5/U5&source=
Its supported by Solaris 10 but with a max of 512MB ram, you're not going to get very far with ZFS.
best thing you can do with those is get a LSI Logic/Symbios SCSI card (gotta be 5V 33Mhz 32bit PCI card such as the 53C875 or '876), and use a SCSI disk, this gets away from the PIO performance bottleneck, and should be supported by the openboot rom as-is. if you remove the floppy drive, you can get two HD's into a U5 chassis.
On Tuesday 29 December 2009 18:11:51 John R Pierce wrote:
Slack-Moehrle wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
the Ultra 5 (and its cousin the Ultra 10) is penalized by having a programmed IO IDE channel which can transfer a max 6MB/sec at 100% CPU bound.
some technical details here, http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/U5/U5&am... ource= http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/U5/U5 &source=
Its supported by Solaris 10 but with a max of 512MB ram, you're not going to get very far with ZFS.
best thing you can do with those is get a LSI Logic/Symbios SCSI card (gotta be 5V 33Mhz 32bit PCI card such as the 53C875 or '876), and use a SCSI disk, this gets away from the PIO performance bottleneck, and should be supported by the openboot rom as-is. if you remove the floppy drive, you can get two HD's into a U5 chassis.
That's a good suggestion, even old scsi drives are much faster than the ide disks and controller used in the Ultra5. Unfortunately we had some issues running two 7200rpm SCSI disks in a U5 - the poor little box would overheat.
Peter.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Slack-Moehrle mailinglists@mailnewsrss.com wrote:
My 12 year old wants to learn more about servers and has memorized a lot of commands like ls, chmod, du, etc. He wants to have his own domain and server on the web and I have enough Static IP's, so why not foster this interest.
I have an old ultra sparc 5. Are there any CentOS versions that support Sparc?
Or recommendations? I know OpenBSD does, but I am more versed in Solaris and versions like Slackware or CentOS or Ubuntu.
Solaris 10 will install and run on the Ultra5 w/o issue. I have one running here at home.
Hope this helps, - Ryan -- http://prefetch.net
-
John R Pierce -
Les Mikesell -
Matty -
Neil Aggarwal -
Peter A -
Phil Savoie -
Ross Walker -
Slack-Moehrle -
Tim Nelson -
Timo Schoeler