On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
Why don't you ask the Wiki gurus and put it on the CentOS Wiki?
Yes, I agree whit that. The idea is always the same: beneficing the community. In this case, put the manual into the wiki would be greater for all CentOS users.
Unfortunately, I have had nothing, thus far, but bad experiences with wikis.
Especially when you begin letting others "mark up" something that you've posted there. At that point, because your name is on it, you "own" all of their mistakes. I'm not saying that the CentOS wiki is like that, just wikis in general. [...]
Please don't start this again. You can view last year's argument about this here: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2006-August/thread.html#67803
PCtech: You are certainly entitled to control your copyrighted material however you like, but if you look at how the rest of the open source community handles this type of information, you must be able to see that the method you are using is not typical. It's the type of thing that makes other people uncomfortable. Again, you are completely entitled to handle it however you like, but you need to expect people will consider your method unsavory.
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It is VERY typical in the open source community. Name me ONE open source project that just ANYONE can submit changes to that will go live without some sort of vetting process. You can't. Because there are none. A large percentage of the open source projects don't even accept submissions from people that aren't on the development team.
I don't need to expect anything of the sort. I don't HAVE to offer this document, or any of the future ones, to people. I do it because I WANT to. For the good of the community as it were. That doesn't mean that I have to give up all of my rights to who can actually change the document that I spent the time to write. How is the way I am disseminating it ANY less "savory" than posting it on a web site for people to download? Because I choose e-mail? It allows ME to control the cost of disseminating the information. It allows ME to control the alterations to my document. I've tried disseminating things in a wiki format before. No thanks. One letter from a lawyer was quite enough. I don't know about you, but *I* don't want to have to defend myself against someone for something that I give out for free and wrote, initially, for myself.
_______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
On 6/6/07, Please don't start this again. You can view last year's argument about this here: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2006-August/thread.html#67803
PCtech: You are certainly entitled to control your copyrighted material however you like, but if you look at how the rest of the open source community handles this type of information, you must be able to see that the method you are using is not typical. It's the type of thing that makes other people uncomfortable. Again, you are completely entitled to handle it however you like, but you need to expect people will consider your method unsavory.
It is VERY typical in the open source community. Name me ONE open source project that just ANYONE can submit changes to that will go live without some sort of vetting process. You can't. Because there are none. A large percentage of the open source projects don't even accept submissions from people that aren't on the development team.
I don't need to expect anything of the sort. I don't HAVE to offer this document, or any of the future ones, to people. I do it because I WANT to. For the good of the community as it were. That doesn't mean that I have to give up all of my rights to who can actually change the document that I spent the time to write. How is the way I am disseminating it ANY less "savory" than posting it on a web site for people to download? Because I choose e-mail? It allows ME to control the cost of disseminating the information. It allows ME to control the alterations to my document. I've tried disseminating things in a wiki format before. No thanks. One letter from a lawyer was quite enough. I don't know about you, but *I* don't want to have to defend myself against someone for something that I give out for free and wrote, initially, for myself.
I'm sorry dude, but you need a SERIOUS attitude adjustment. You are just lashing out at people, even those who are not attacking you. (it's sufficient to respond once to a thread; you don't need to reply to every single message).
Quite frankly, your argument is kind of ridiculous. You can easily control who has access to change a document, and you don't even need to use a wiki. A regular html page doesn't allow anyone but you to edit it. All you _really_ need to say is "this is how I choose to do it", but if you start making silly arguments, it makes you sound, well, silly.
No one is telling you that you need to do it, and if you want to only distribute through email, that's your choice. The main point of my message was to say that many people won't like your choice, so do not be surprised at the reaction.
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 16:51 -0400, Brian Mathis wrote:
On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
On 6/6/07, Please don't start this again. You can view last year's argument about this here: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2006-August/thread.html#67803
PCtech: You are certainly entitled to control your copyrighted material however you like, but if you look at how the rest of the open source community handles this type of information, you must be able to see that the method you are using is not typical. It's the type of thing that makes other people uncomfortable. Again, you are completely entitled to handle it however you like, but you need to expect people will consider your method unsavory.
It is VERY typical in the open source community. Name me ONE open source project that just ANYONE can submit changes to that will go live without some sort of vetting process. You can't. Because there are none. A large percentage of the open source projects don't even accept submissions from people that aren't on the development team.
I don't need to expect anything of the sort. I don't HAVE to offer this document, or any of the future ones, to people. I do it because I WANT to. For the good of the community as it were. That doesn't mean that I have to give up all of my rights to who can actually change the document that I spent the time to write. How is the way I am disseminating it ANY less "savory" than posting it on a web site for people to download? Because I choose e-mail? It allows ME to control the cost of disseminating the information. It allows ME to control the alterations to my document. I've tried disseminating things in a wiki format before. No thanks. One letter from a lawyer was quite enough. I don't know about you, but *I* don't want to have to defend myself against someone for something that I give out for free and wrote, initially, for myself.
I'm sorry dude, but you need a SERIOUS attitude adjustment. You are just lashing out at people, even those who are not attacking you. (it's sufficient to respond once to a thread; you don't need to reply to every single message).
Actually, I haven't lashed out at anyone. People have chosen to lash out at me due to my chosen distribution method.
I answer each and every message so that people don't think that I am ignoring them or their comments.
Quite frankly, your argument is kind of ridiculous. You can easily control who has access to change a document, and you don't even need to use a wiki. A regular html page doesn't allow anyone but you to edit it. All you _really_ need to say is "this is how I choose to do it", but if you start making silly arguments, it makes you sound, well, silly.
I guess you didn't see the part where I don't have the bandwidth to host the document. Never once have I stated that anyone else wasn't free to host the document if they so chose. They're the silly ones for getting "bitchy" about my chosen distribution method.
No one is telling you that you need to do it, and if you want to only distribute through email, that's your choice. The main point of my message was to say that many people won't like your choice, so do not be surprised at the reaction.
No... Rather than telling me I *MUST* do this or that they're bitching that I didn't choose to do this or that. At the end of the day it's not alot different.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
/me puts on asbestos suit.
Actually, I haven't lashed out at anyone. People have chosen to lash out at me due to my chosen distribution method.
Right...
I answer each and every message so that people don't think that I am ignoring them or their comments.
Okay...
Quite frankly, your argument is kind of ridiculous. You can easily control who has access to change a document, and you don't even need to use a wiki. A regular html page doesn't allow anyone but you to edit it. All you _really_ need to say is "this is how I choose to do it", but if you start making silly arguments, it makes you sound, well, silly.
I guess you didn't see the part where I don't have the bandwidth to host the document. Never once have I stated that anyone else wasn't free to host the document if they so chose. They're the silly ones for getting "bitchy" about my chosen distribution method.
So you chose to distribute your document via PDF and it is what 15MB in size? You email this to those who are interested...do you do one single mailing with all the addresses or do you individually email them? How many of these guys can take a 15MB attachment or a 20MB message? Probably all but I wonder how many of those who did not ask, did not do so because they do not have a mailbox on a system that can swallow a 20MB message.
No one is telling you that you need to do it, and if you want to only distribute through email, that's your choice. The main point of my message was to say that many people won't like your choice, so do not be surprised at the reaction.
No... Rather than telling me I *MUST* do this or that they're bitching that I didn't choose to do this or that. At the end of the day it's not alot different.
Let's see:
Les: Did you miss the 'revision history' link that removes all doubt about who said what?
You then call it snippy...
Max: do you not have a place to host the document then? It seems that if you've gone to that much trouble to write something, then perhaps you just need a spot somewhere to host the document?
You then complain about
"Currently I have a domain, yes, however my bandwidth is rather limited. By cost, not by speed. I don't feel like incurring hundreds of dollars in usage fees to post this on my domain."
but don't feel like posting on the Centos wiki but do yap about 'big' names like IEEE...
On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 12:25 +0800, Feizhou wrote:
/me puts on asbestos suit.
Actually, I haven't lashed out at anyone. People have chosen to lash out at me due to my chosen distribution method.
Right...
I answer each and every message so that people don't think that I am ignoring them or their comments.
Okay...
Quite frankly, your argument is kind of ridiculous. You can easily control who has access to change a document, and you don't even need to use a wiki. A regular html page doesn't allow anyone but you to edit it. All you _really_ need to say is "this is how I choose to do it", but if you start making silly arguments, it makes you sound, well, silly.
I guess you didn't see the part where I don't have the bandwidth to host the document. Never once have I stated that anyone else wasn't free to host the document if they so chose. They're the silly ones for getting "bitchy" about my chosen distribution method.
So you chose to distribute your document via PDF and it is what 15MB in size? You email this to those who are interested...do you do one single mailing with all the addresses or do you individually email them? How many of these guys can take a 15MB attachment or a 20MB message? Probably all but I wonder how many of those who did not ask, did not do so because they do not have a mailbox on a system that can swallow a 20MB message.
I chose to distribute my document via PDF because it was the best way to make it cross platform. Nothing more, and nothing less. EVERY platform supports PDF. Not every platform supports Microsoft Office. The document size is 8.8Mb to be exact. A far cry from 15MB or 20MB. And, since I didn't publish the size of the document in my e-mail they wouldn't know how large it was to decide not to ask. If someone would like the document source, they're welcome to it. Again, I chose PDF for portability. No other reason.
Out of the 53 documents that I have sent out since I posted this, there have been three bounce backs. One because someone's mailbox was full and two because the document was too big.
No one is telling you that you need to do it, and if you want to only distribute through email, that's your choice. The main point of my message was to say that many people won't like your choice, so do not be surprised at the reaction.
No... Rather than telling me I *MUST* do this or that they're bitching that I didn't choose to do this or that. At the end of the day it's not alot different.
Let's see:
Les: Did you miss the 'revision history' link that removes all doubt about who said what?
Did you see where I posted that the revision history tends to get ignored by alot of people? I even stated what exactly happened in my case. Sorry. Allowing someone else to revise my document, even with a revision history, isn't worth being contacted by lawyers because of a revision someone else made. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry.
You then call it snippy...
Max: do you not have a place to host the document then? It seems that if you've gone to that much trouble to write something, then perhaps you just need a spot somewhere to host the document?
As I have already stated at least three times, if someone would like to host the document, they can feel free. I have never once stated that they cannot. Did you not see those posts to the list?
You then complain about
"Currently I have a domain, yes, however my bandwidth is rather limited. By cost, not by speed. I don't feel like incurring hundreds of dollars in usage fees to post this on my domain."
but don't feel like posting on the Centos wiki but do yap about 'big' names like IEEE...
I "yapped" about a big site like IEEE because I am hoping that I can get THEM to host the document, because I am limited to my monthly bandwidth. The difference between the IEEE site and wiki is that IEEE will host the actual document. Wiki is a whole different animal. That's like comparing apples to corn. When I hit the cap, I have a significant usage penalty. I am giving this document out for free. I cannot afford to pay $100 a month in bandwidth fees when I go over my cap.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
So you chose to distribute your document via PDF and it is what 15MB in size? You email this to those who are interested...do you do one single mailing with all the addresses or do you individually email them? How many of these guys can take a 15MB attachment or a 20MB message? Probably all but I wonder how many of those who did not ask, did not do so because they do not have a mailbox on a system that can swallow a 20MB message.
I chose to distribute my document via PDF because it was the best way to make it cross platform. Nothing more, and nothing less. EVERY platform supports PDF. Not every platform supports Microsoft Office. The document size is 8.8Mb to be exact. A far cry from 15MB or 20MB. And, since I didn't publish the size of the document in my e-mail they wouldn't know how large it was to decide not to ask. If someone would like the document source, they're welcome to it. Again, I chose PDF for portability. No other reason.
Actually, having it available in html too would be a good thing imho.
Out of the 53 documents that I have sent out since I posted this, there have been three bounce backs. One because someone's mailbox was full and two because the document was too big.
Well, another mode of distribution might be good then...
Les: Did you miss the 'revision history' link that removes all doubt about who said what?
Did you see where I posted that the revision history tends to get ignored by alot of people? I even stated what exactly happened in my case. Sorry. Allowing someone else to revise my document, even with a revision history, isn't worth being contacted by lawyers because of a revision someone else made. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry.
Right, so you are now going to discount the fact that on the centos wiki modifications are only possible by admins, yourself or those whom you allow?
You then complain about
"Currently I have a domain, yes, however my bandwidth is rather limited. By cost, not by speed. I don't feel like incurring hundreds of dollars in usage fees to post this on my domain."
but don't feel like posting on the Centos wiki but do yap about 'big' names like IEEE...
I "yapped" about a big site like IEEE because I am hoping that I can get THEM to host the document, because I am limited to my monthly bandwidth. The difference between the IEEE site and wiki is that IEEE will host the actual document. Wiki is a whole different animal. That's like comparing apples to corn. When I hit the cap, I have a significant usage penalty. I am giving this document out for free. I cannot afford to pay $100 a month in bandwidth fees when I go over my cap.
Do you or do you not know that you can put a pdf in a wiki?
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Brian Mathis -
Feizhou -
Frank Tanner III -
pctech＠mybellybutton.com