Ugo Bellavance wrote:
The thing is that sometimes threads start as technical and end up by opninated, endless discussions.
It depends. Sometimes people just differ on what context they are using, so they will differ by nature.
I think the comments on Red Hat in general just need to die though. It's clear there are some people just don't like Red Hat, and no amount of discussion is going to change that.
From: Chris Mauritz chrism@imntv.com
Exactly! I guess I can just set up some custom filters for the "biggest offender(s),"
I'm definitely in that group. ;->
but it's a shame that it has to come to that. Looking at the sheer number of posts in such a short timeframe from some of these folks leaves me envious of their amount of free time (or perhaps just a superhuman typing ability). 8-)
I am a writer by trade. I can crank out a productive 45 words/minute. 5-15 words/minute effective for publication (i.e., including draft, review, etc...).
-- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org
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On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 09:45:58AM -0500, Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org wrote:
From: Chris Mauritz chrism@imntv.com
Exactly! I guess I can just set up some custom filters for the "biggest offender(s),"
I'm definitely in that group. ;->
Maybe we can set up a mailing list for just us two, Bryan :)
but it's a shame that it has to come to that. Looking at the sheer number of posts in such a short timeframe from some of these folks leaves me envious of their amount of free time (or perhaps just a superhuman typing ability). 8-)
I am a writer by trade. I can crank out a productive 45 words/minute. 5-15 words/minute effective for publication (i.e., including draft, review, etc...).
Foiled ! I top at 35 words/minute. My "words/minute effective for publication" is, actually, one the minutes/word scale :)
- -- Rodrigo Barbosa rodrigob@suespammers.org "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)
On Friday 03 June 2005 11:29, Rodrigo Barbosa wrote:
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 09:45:58AM -0500, Bryan J. Smith > > I am a writer
by trade. I can crank out a productive 45 words/minute.
5-15 words/minute effective for publication (i.e., including draft, review, etc...).
Foiled ! I top at 35 words/minute. My "words/minute effective for publication" is, actually, one the minutes/word scale :)
My max when I'm in the groove is about 50wpm typing; 1500-2000 wpm reading. No wonder I can be a bit verbose.
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org wrote:
Ugo Bellavance wrote:
The thing is that sometimes threads start as technical and end up by opninated, endless discussions.
It depends. Sometimes people just differ on what context they are using, so they will differ by nature.
I think the comments on Red Hat in general just need to die though. It's clear there are some people just don't like Red Hat, and no amount of discussion is going to change that.
Bryan, sometimes I think you read too much between the lines than generally advisable. Before you were on this list we didn't have such discussions and I don't feel there was an anti-Red Hat theme back then.
To be honest, I think you're creating the anti-Red Hat feeling with some of the black and white comments and opinions (and maybe by repeating that you have to fight it). This list used to be about the technical part, not about politics and flavored opinions. That seemed to have changed when you started mailing :/
I am a writer by trade. I can crank out a productive 45 words/minute. 5-15 words/minute effective for publication (i.e., including draft, review, etc...).
And this obviously does not include the words/minute your mails are generating in reaction. I think you earn some of the credit for the reactions too, don't be too humble :p
-- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 07:32 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
Bryan, sometimes I think you read too much between the lines than generally advisable. Before you were on this list we didn't have such discussions and I don't feel there was an anti-Red Hat theme back then.
To be honest, I think you're creating the anti-Red Hat feeling with some of the black and white comments and opinions (and maybe by repeating that you have to fight it). This list used to be about the technical part, not about politics and flavored opinions. That seemed to have changed when you started mailing :/
Word up.
Preston
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 07:32 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
Bryan, sometimes I think you read too much between the lines than generally advisable. Before you were on this list we didn't have such discussions and I don't feel there was an anti-Red Hat theme back then.
Now hold on. The "Vote for CentOS" thread was already erupting into an vote for Red Hat / don't vote for Red Hat bunch of garbage _before_ I even got anywhere near it.
In fact, I've actually been far more in the middle on it than several people.
To be honest, I think you're creating the anti-Red Hat feeling with some of the black and white comments and opinions (and maybe by repeating that you have to fight it). This list used to be about the technical part, not about politics and flavored opinions. That seemed to have changed when you started mailing :/
Don't pin some of this on me. Yes, I started a few threads. But some of this stuff I didn't.
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 07:32 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
To be honest, I think you're creating the anti-Red Hat feeling with some of the black and white comments and opinions (and maybe by repeating that you have to fight it). This list used to be about the technical part, not about politics and flavored opinions. That seemed to have changed when you started mailing :/
Don't pin some of this on me. Yes, I started a few threads. But some of this stuff I didn't.
One constant is that you've always been involved though :) You're obviously not creating the thread on your own. It's just a fact that it wasn't like this before. Maybe someone said something, but nobody went into a fierce fight over it.
And again, I appreciate the technical insights you have contributed to some of the threads. I don't want you to get only one signal or have you leave the list over this, but if we could leave the never-ending threads about the same subject out, the list would become a joy again.
And I'm not only asking you, I'd prefer if everyone could try to not put more oil onto the fire, even when you don't agree. We know each others opinions now, we don't have to iterate over it again and again.
-- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 09:07 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
One constant is that you've always been involved though :) You're obviously not creating the thread on your own. It's just a fact that it wasn't like this before. Maybe someone said something, but nobody went into a fierce fight over it.
I'm sure I "stirred things up." I'll admit that.
Given some of the other posts I've now seen, it seems I was the "first jerk" that finally started putting his foot down and said "we don't need the anti-Red Hat junk." So others actually felt like they could let their opinions be known, and they came out of the wood work. Unfortunately, now it seems that some of what others have said is being attributed to me, just like someone who starts a "riot." ;->
With all that said, I am sorry. Again, one _could_ make the case that "I started the riot." So I think at this point -- especially the "Vote for CentOS," I think it's gone too far. And as much as I hope people could not go to the "deep ends" on each side, nothing I'm going to say is even going to be taken positive. So I think I just need to not even bother.
[ BTW, as a side note, I'm also sorry I engaged Les on the "GPL debate," which was 0% technical, and another distraction that I shouldn't have entertained. ]
And again, I appreciate the technical insights you have contributed to some of the threads. I don't want you to get only one signal or have you leave the list over this, but if we could leave the never-ending threads about the same subject out, the list would become a joy again.
Agreed. Although I beg people not to make things about Red Hat.
And I'm not only asking you, I'd prefer if everyone could try to not put more oil onto the fire, even when you don't agree. We know each others opinions now, we don't have to iterate over it again and again.
Agreed. I'll try to lead by example and just not respond. So far, I've been the opposite type of example.
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 09:07 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
And I'm not only asking you, I'd prefer if everyone could try to not put more oil onto the fire, even when you don't agree. We know each others opinions now, we don't have to iterate over it again and again.
Agreed. I'll try to lead by example and just not respond. So far, I've been the opposite type of example.
Sometimes a good technique to prevent a big fire is to cut out the stuff that is not adding anything to the heart of the discussion. Even if you do not agree with some of the surrounding statements, you do not have to answer each statement/each paragraph to prove your point.
You may have noticed I cut a whole part of your mail out just to make the mail friendly again. I don't want to reply to blame/reblame because that is exactly what leads to reaction. Just answer the nice parts, and people think you are nice too.
Right ? You think I'm nice, don't you ? :)
-- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 09:37 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
Right ? You think I'm nice, don't you ? :)
Especially considering the fact that you are a contributor to this project. I'm just here for any entertainment I can find. ;->
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 09:37 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
Right ? You think I'm nice, don't you ? :)
Especially considering the fact that you are a contributor to this project. I'm just here for any entertainment I can find. ;->
Actually I am not a contributor to the CentOS project, and I don't think I'm even involved other than a big chuck of my userbase is RHEL based.
I'm on this list to listen to those users, learn more about CentOS and meet interesting people. (I'm equally subscribed to other RHEL related lists)
And since I don't have that much time, it's important for me that the lists I'm subscribed to are still manageable :) That's my only interest in joining the discussions, btw.
-- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
And I'm not only asking you, I'd prefer if everyone could try to not put more oil onto the fire, even when you don't agree. We know each others opinions now, we don't have to iterate over it again and again.
Agreed. I'll try to lead by example and just not respond. So far, I've been the opposite type of example.
If you want a nice place to have your discussions, maybe creating a blog would be the solution? You write something, and people can write comments about it. If you see that the discussion is getting off-topic, just create a blog entry, then send a link to your blog to this list.
It's free and fun.
I'm totally not connected with this organization, I just like http://taosecurity.blogspot.com/, which uses blogger.com.
Regards,
-
Bryan J. Smith -
Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith＠ieee.org> -
Dag Wieers -
Lamar Owen -
Preston Crawford -
Rodrigo Barbosa -
Ugo Bellavance