Well, I want to stay on an even keel, here with 4.3 for a week or two.
I would like to update needed programs.
Would also like to get a newer gnome!
What are others doing here. Too much traffic, too much to read....
On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Well, I want to stay on an even keel, here with 4.3 for a week or two.
I would like to update needed programs.
Would also like to get a newer gnome!
What are others doing here. Too much traffic, too much to read....
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
If you mean that you want to only update specific packages then you can do that manually with yum.
Or if you want to update everything but stay on 4.3 then you could exclude centos-release in yum config ... but it is probably not to be recommended
Regards Lance
Lance Davis wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Well, I want to stay on an even keel, here with 4.3 for a week or two.
I would like to update needed programs.
Would also like to get a newer gnome!
What are others doing here. Too much traffic, too much to read....
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
Hey, I am seeing 195 updates available. That does NOT sound like a a few patches. More like a total replacement.
If you mean that you want to only update specific packages then you can do that manually with yum.
Or if you want to update everything but stay on 4.3 then you could exclude centos-release in yum config ... but it is probably not to be recommended
Regards Lance _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
Hey, I am seeing 195 updates available. That does NOT sound like a a few patches. More like a total replacement.
this is how RH releases patches (and thus how CentOS releases patches):
1) a new point release comes out (e.g. 4.3) 2) as time passes, updated packages are created and classified into three categories: a) security or critical fixes b) noncritical fixes c) feature enhancements 3) security and critical fixes are pushed out to the update channels as soon as they are available 4) noncritical fixes and feature enhancements are not pushed out until it's time for a new point release (e.g. 4.4)
what it sounds like you want is to stay at 4.3 but still receive... something? security updates? updates that are magically guaranteed not to break anything?
i'm not sure there's a good way to accomplish that. i'd recommend not running `yum update` until other early adopters have figured out all the various pitfalls and have documented workarounds.
-steve
p.s. i recall an announcement a while back that there RH created additional up2date channels that distribute noncritical fixes and feature enhancements in real time rather than waiting until the point release, but i don't remember how to access them. anyone?
--- If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction. - Fabian, Twelfth Night
On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, Steve Huff wrote:
On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
Hey, I am seeing 195 updates available. That does NOT sound like a a few patches. More like a total replacement.
what it sounds like you want is to stay at 4.3 but still receive... something? security updates? updates that are magically guaranteed not to break anything?
i'm not sure there's a good way to accomplish that. i'd recommend not running `yum update` until other early adopters have figured out all the various pitfalls and have documented workarounds.
This issue will be resolved upstream when following the release of 4.5 they start to maintain point releases that have backported security updates - 4.5.1 4.5.2 etc - CentOS will follow suit ...
-steve
p.s. i recall an announcement a while back that there RH created additional up2date channels that distribute noncritical fixes and feature enhancements in real time rather than waiting until the point release, but i don't remember how to access them. anyone?
fasttrack repo (= upstream fastrack)
Regards Lance
Steve Huff wrote:
On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
Hey, I am seeing 195 updates available. That does NOT sound like a a few patches. More like a total replacement.
this is how RH releases patches (and thus how CentOS releases patches):
- a new point release comes out (e.g. 4.3)
- as time passes, updated packages are created and classified into
three categories: a) security or critical fixes b) noncritical fixes c) feature enhancements 3) security and critical fixes are pushed out to the update channels as soon as they are available 4) noncritical fixes and feature enhancements are not pushed out until it's time for a new point release (e.g. 4.4)
what it sounds like you want is to stay at 4.3 but still receive... something? security updates? updates that are magically guaranteed not to break anything?
Some way to change piecemeal to increase the likelyhood of a working system. If this system gets hosed for partial updates, I am hosed....
i'm not sure there's a good way to accomplish that. i'd recommend not running `yum update` until other early adopters have figured out all the various pitfalls and have documented workarounds.
But then you have to know what to update...
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Some way to change piecemeal to increase the likelyhood of a working system. If this system gets hosed for partial updates, I am hosed....
I'm in pretty much the same boat. However, I will say that being forearmed with the nature of the problems, I've been able to upgrade machines without any problems. That said, I have chosen not to update a few key machines that are in unmanned locations until such time as I can get a warm (Hell, I'll settle for cold) body out there just in case there are problems.
Are people running RHEL being plagued by these same problems?
This is the first hint of trouble since I started using CentOS back in mid-2004.
Cheers,
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 13:48 -0400, chrism@imntv.com wrote:
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
<snip>
This is the first hint of trouble since I started using CentOS back in mid-2004.
Generous (or selective) memory? Remember th 4.2 (I think it was 4.2) noise. Several folks had issues. I waited a few days and followed their posted solutions and had no problems. 4.3 was nice and smooth though.
<snip sig stuff>
William L. Maltby wrote:
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 13:48 -0400, chrism@imntv.com wrote:
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
<snip>
This is the first hint of trouble since I started using CentOS back in mid-2004.
Generous (or selective) memory?
Could be. I don't recall there being such a variety of folks (especially ones that are known to be rather technically inclined) on the list during that episode.
Cheers,
chrism@imntv.com wrote:
William L. Maltby wrote:
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 13:48 -0400, chrism@imntv.com wrote:
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
<snip>
This is the first hint of trouble since I started using CentOS back in mid-2004.
Generous (or selective) memory?
Could be. I don't recall there being such a variety of folks (especially ones that are known to be rather technically inclined) on the list during that episode.
That should read "variety of folks complaining". :)
Cheers,
chrism@imntv.com wrote:
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Some way to change piecemeal to increase the likelyhood of a working system. If this system gets hosed for partial updates, I am hosed....
I'm in pretty much the same boat. However, I will say that being forearmed with the nature of the problems, I've been able to upgrade machines without any problems. That said, I have chosen not to update a few key machines that are in unmanned locations until such time as I can get a warm (Hell, I'll settle for cold) body out there just in case there are problems.
Are people running RHEL being plagued by these same problems?
I'm on nahant-list; I've not seen mention of it there.
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 12:27, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Steve Huff wrote:
On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
Hey, I am seeing 195 updates available. That does NOT sound like a a few patches. More like a total replacement.
this is how RH releases patches (and thus how CentOS releases patches):
- a new point release comes out (e.g. 4.3)
- as time passes, updated packages are created and classified into
three categories: a) security or critical fixes b) noncritical fixes c) feature enhancements 3) security and critical fixes are pushed out to the update channels as soon as they are available 4) noncritical fixes and feature enhancements are not pushed out until it's time for a new point release (e.g. 4.4)
what it sounds like you want is to stay at 4.3 but still receive... something? security updates? updates that are magically guaranteed not to break anything?
Some way to change piecemeal to increase the likelyhood of a working system. If this system gets hosed for partial updates, I am hosed....
Keep in mind that all of the changes have been backported into the existing program versions which is a lot of work, and that someone who understands the programs better than either of us decided that effort was necessary. Also, I think you are more likely to break something with piecemeal updates compared to running exactly the same mix of versions that have been tested together.
However, you might want to prepare some kind of backup/restore strategy if the box is important. There are many other things more likely to break it than a minor version update.
i'm not sure there's a good way to accomplish that. i'd recommend not running `yum update` until other early adopters have figured out all the various pitfalls and have documented workarounds.
But then you have to know what to update...
The main issues that have been posted here involved a lockup while yum was updating itself or its libraries and database. There was some advice about updating these first, or using 'upd2date -u' instead, but I'm not sure which is best.
Les Mikesell wrote: \
The main issues that have been posted here involved a lockup while yum was updating itself or its libraries and database. There was some advice about updating these first, or using 'upd2date -u' instead, but I'm not sure which is best.
fwiw I've just upgraded from 4.3 (new install done after RHEL 4.4, before CentOS 4.4) to 4.4. The upgrade went smoothly with yum, no special actions. I was a little surprised to see a new kernel; I updated grub's menu to boot the one I'm already running, thank you ver much!.
I've not rebooted, I'd do that when I'm in the same room and it's not downloading Debian.
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Steve Huff wrote:
On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Errmm 4.3 updates give 4.4 ???
Hey, I am seeing 195 updates available. That does NOT sound like a a few patches. More like a total replacement.
this is how RH releases patches (and thus how CentOS releases patches):
- a new point release comes out (e.g. 4.3)
- as time passes, updated packages are created and classified into
three categories: a) security or critical fixes b) noncritical fixes c) feature enhancements 3) security and critical fixes are pushed out to the update channels as soon as they are available 4) noncritical fixes and feature enhancements are not pushed out until it's time for a new point release (e.g. 4.4)
what it sounds like you want is to stay at 4.3 but still receive... something? security updates? updates that are magically guaranteed not to break anything?
Some way to change piecemeal to increase the likelyhood of a working system. If this system gets hosed for partial updates, I am hosed....
Read the announcements, install those updates important to you. Usta do that in a former life.
--- Lance Davis lance@uklinux.net wrote:
Or if you want to update everything but stay on 4.3 then you could exclude centos-release in yum config ... but it is probably not to be recommended
Uh, naive question to the master: why is it any difference at all (if any) with the "old" centos-release?
Isn't "yum update" (even with 'centos-release' excluded!) supposed to bring the *latest* versions of each and every package, no matter it still believes it's on CentOS 4.3?!
The repos are the same "4" (not "4.3", not "4.4"), so what's the big deal about the actual version of CentOS?!
Or maybe the actual problem will be some broken dependencies!?
I'm stunned. Béranger
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- Lance Davis lance@uklinux.net wrote:
Or if you want to update everything but stay on 4.3 then you could exclude centos-release in yum config ... but it is probably not to be recommended
Uh, naive question to the master: why is it any difference at all (if any) with the "old" centos-release?
Isn't "yum update" (even with 'centos-release' excluded!) supposed to bring the *latest* versions of each and every package, no matter it still believes it's on CentOS 4.3?!
The repos are the same "4" (not "4.3", not "4.4"), so what's the big deal about the actual version of CentOS?!
Or maybe the actual problem will be some broken dependencies!?
I'm stunned.
The difference is that the machine will think it has 4.3 :)
Notice I said - 'update everything but stay on 4.3' :)
Lance
--- Lance Davis lance@centos.org wrote:
The difference is that the machine will think it has 4.3 :)
Notice I said - 'update everything but stay on 4.3' :)
Right. Thanks!
Béranger
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Lance Davis wrote:
--- Lance Davis lance@uklinux.net wrote:
Or if you want to update everything but stay on 4.3 then you could exclude centos-release in yum config ... but it is probably not to be recommended
The difference is that the machine will think it has 4.3 :)
Notice I said - 'update everything but stay on 4.3' :)
You are deluding yourself.
Better to update your yum configuration to exclude those packages you wish to avoid.
Also, ensure you're repacking packages that get updated.
uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user.
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, John Summerfied wrote:
Lance Davis wrote:
--- Lance Davis lance@uklinux.net wrote:
Or if you want to update everything but stay on 4.3 then you could exclude centos-release in yum config ... but it is probably not to be recommended
The difference is that the machine will think it has 4.3 :)
Notice I said - 'update everything but stay on 4.3' :)
You are deluding yourself.
I hardly think so
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Well, I want to stay on an even keel, here with 4.3 for a week or two.
I would like to update needed programs.
yum update program - or what do you mean?
This will also pull in updates to needed dependencies.
Would also like to get a newer gnome!
Not in CentOS 4.x - Gnome will stay at the version it's at at the moment (at least I could sneak another at in there!).
What are others doing here. Too much traffic, too much to read....
Read faster? =:)
Cheers,
Ralph
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 09:42 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Well, I want to stay on an even keel, here with 4.3 for a week or two.
I would like to update needed programs.
Would also like to get a newer gnome!
What are others doing here. Too much traffic, too much to read....
Keep in mind that 4.4 is just a marker point. It is 4.3 with some upgrades. You can pick and choose (with dependencies being satisfied) what you want to add. And you can put excludes= in the repo definitions to help avoid an unexpected update later on. And for your "non-standard" repos, "includepkgs=" can/should be used (in certain cases).
I wish I had a stable enough platform to offer more than that. I will tell you that I might back out the Xorg update (very bad off-screen-to- on-screen virtual desktop scrolling... er "stuttering" as compared to prev version. No one responded when I asked if others saw it, so I may be unique), although I'll be darned if I can figure why.
<snip sig stuff>
HTH -- Bill
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Well, I want to stay on an even keel, here with 4.3 for a week or two.
I would like to update needed programs.
Would also like to get a newer gnome!
What are others doing here. Too much traffic, too much to read....
The only real solution is to have a test box and/or network and test your patches on that. Without having tested the patches, whether they're security patches or new features, you risk breaking your app. You should consider setting up a test box, testing your app. with 4.4, then retest after critical updates are released. Once you've verified the critical update doesn't break your app in two, apply it to the production box. When a update release comes out for CentOS, test against that also (you'll probably want to do more extended testing since a lot changes in update releases).
This is also what "rpm -q --changelog" and Update release notes are meant for, so that you can get an idea of what's changes, why and how it might affect your app.
Remember that since you're using CentOS you've no one to yell at when a patch breaks your app. If reliability is that important and things *can't get hosed* as you said, you should really be using RHEL.
As a final note, I've yet to have a RPM update break one of my servers except where I did something wrong myself and rpm "fixed" it for me.
Jay
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 14:10 -0400, Jay Lee wrote:
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
<snip>
This is also what "rpm -q --changelog" and Update release notes are meant for, so that you can get an idea of what's changes, why and how it might affect your app.
Yum-utils has a new(for me anyway) changelog feature so you can do this check *before* installing... I think. I was setting up and reading up on that stuff when the last OOPS shot me down.
<snip>
-
chrism＠imntv.com -
Jay Lee -
John Summerfied -
John Summerfield
-
Lance Davis -
Lance Davis -
Les Mikesell -
Radu-Cristian FOTESCU -
Ralph Angenendt -
Robert Moskowitz -
Steve Huff -
William L. Maltby