Does anyone know what I would have to modify in 6 if I wanted to run on an older Pentium M CPU without PAE? Is it just the kernel that needs to be rebuilt (maybe while installed in a system with a supported CPU)? Or are there other components that would cause problems and need to be rebuilt too?
Thanks, Kevin
On 07/26/11 4:27 PM, Kevin K wrote:
Does anyone know what I would have to modify in 6 if I wanted to run on an older Pentium M CPU without PAE? Is it just the kernel that needs to be rebuilt (maybe while installed in a system with a supported CPU)? Or are there other components that would cause problems and need to be rebuilt too?
generically, you'd install the kernel srpm, and modify its rpmbuild scripts to change the HIGHMEM64G kernel configure option to HIGHMEM4G ... I would also change the name of this kernel (I'd add -noPAE to it, I think), and the builder name, then run rpmbuild.
specifically, I haven't done this in quite a long time, so would have to figure out the details as I went along.
On Tuesday 26 July 2011 20:55:58 John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/26/11 4:27 PM, Kevin K wrote:
Does anyone know what I would have to modify in 6 if I wanted to run on an older Pentium M CPU without PAE? Is it just the
kernel that needs to be rebuilt (maybe while installed in a system with a supported CPU)? Or are there other components that would cause problems and need to be rebuilt too?
generically, you'd install the kernel srpm, and modify its rpmbuild scripts to change the HIGHMEM64G kernel configure option to HIGHMEM4G ... I would also change the name of this kernel (I'd add -noPAE to it, I think), and the builder name, then run rpmbuild.
specifically, I haven't done this in quite a long time, so would have to figure out the details as I went along.
And how exactly would you do that if the installation just can't proceed if it detects you do not have a PAE processor?
Regards,
Marc Deop
On Jul 27, 2011, at 4:53 AM, Marc Deop wrote:
On Tuesday 26 July 2011 20:55:58 John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/26/11 4:27 PM, Kevin K wrote:
Does anyone know what I would have to modify in 6 if I wanted to run on an older Pentium M CPU without PAE? Is it just the
kernel that needs to be rebuilt (maybe while installed in a system with a supported CPU)? Or are there other components that would cause problems and need to be rebuilt too?
generically, you'd install the kernel srpm, and modify its rpmbuild scripts to change the HIGHMEM64G kernel configure option to HIGHMEM4G ... I would also change the name of this kernel (I'd add -noPAE to it, I think), and the builder name, then run rpmbuild.
specifically, I haven't done this in quite a long time, so would have to figure out the details as I went along.
And how exactly would you do that if the installation just can't proceed if it detects you do not have a PAE processor?
One way would be to move the hard drive to a supported system, install there, then move it back. I've done that before when, for whatever reason, the install program didn't like something in the computer and hung, such as during hardware detection, but the installed system ran.
Kevin
Unfortunately I do not have such system available :(
The pentium M I'm using is PATA based an my other systems are SATA. I might be able to get an external hard drive or something like that...
I'll look into it, thanks for the info anyway :)
Regards
Marc Deop
On Wednesday 27 July 2011 06:50:08 Kevin K wrote:
One way would be to move the hard drive to a supported system, install there, then move it back. I've done that before when,
for whatever reason, the install program didn't like something in the computer and hung, such as during hardware detection, but the installed system ran.
On 07/27/11 4:55 AM, Marc Deop wrote:
Unfortunately I do not have such system available :(
The pentium M I'm using is PATA based an my other systems are SATA. I might be able to get an external hard drive or something like that...
you can build the kernel RPM on any other similar environment, and .... WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP??? Get over it. Either run what works on it, or get suitable hardware to run what you need.
On Wednesday 27 July 2011 10:15:25 John R Pierce wrote:
WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP???
Dude, take it easy. Calm down.
I did not spend more than one 1minute on it. I downloaded the Red Hat Beta 6 and tried to install it on the laptop. At the moment I saw there was no PAE support... I stopped trying.
Then came this thread and was just wondering if it could be done. Just for the *fun* of it.
Regards
Marc Deop
PS: sorry for the offtopic
On 7/27/2011 12:23 PM, Marc Deop wrote:
On Wednesday 27 July 2011 10:15:25 John R Pierce wrote:
WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP???
Dude, take it easy. Calm down.
I did not spend more than one 1minute on it. I downloaded the Red Hat Beta 6 and tried to install it on the laptop. At the moment I saw there was no PAE support... I stopped trying.
Then came this thread and was just wondering if it could be done. Just for the *fun* of it.
There is actually a reasonably-legitimate reason to want such a kernel, perhaps even an i386 version, which is the ability to boot thin clients with LTSP. It can, of course boot a different kernel than the server runs, but it needs to be something maintainable (i.e. already being maintained...) and kept in sync with the rest of the system.
https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/EL6Status
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 10:15 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
you can build the kernel RPM on any other similar environment, and .... WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP??? Get over it. Either run what works on it, or get suitable hardware to run what you need.
Merely because something, or indeed someone, is old but still capable of functioning should not mean it, or they, are discarded.
Last night I was watering the rear garden with attachments brought (I recorded the date and price underneath) 22 years ago AND those spraying attachments worked perfect. The 26" 66cm television is my bedroom is 14 years old. A six year old laptop, which works, is an interesting candidate for exploring Centos and EVERYONE should be encouraged not to throw away functioning items simply because they are 'old'.
When a Centos user wants to explore the richness of the many facilities in Centos on an "old" laptop it shows the person has an enquiring mind. Such people should be encouraged not ridiculed.
:-)
On 07/27/11 10:33 AM, Always Learning wrote:
The 26" 66cm television is my bedroom is 14 years old.
and probably draws triple the power and heat as a modern LCD screen, as well as taking 2 feet or more of depth.
re; the 6 yr old laptop... I in fact have a old pentium-M PATA laptop myself. I use it almost exclusively as a remote terminal and due to its old hardware, max 2GB ram, etc, would only run a lightweight older OS suitable for it.
Hey, I have 2 PIII 550 / 650 Mhz laptops I use running CentOS 5.6 (FVWM for example) - they work just fine (OK maybe firefox can be punchy) - but for Xterms or even as VNC clients - they rock. CentOS 5.6 runs just fine on them too...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011, John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/27/11 10:33 AM, Always Learning wrote:
The 26" 66cm television is my bedroom is 14 years old.
and probably draws triple the power and heat as a modern LCD screen, as well as taking 2 feet or more of depth.
re; the 6 yr old laptop... I in fact have a old pentium-M PATA laptop myself. I use it almost exclusively as a remote terminal and due to its old hardware, max 2GB ram, etc, would only run a lightweight older OS suitable for it.
-- john r pierce N 37, W 122 santa cruz ca mid-left coast
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Scot P. Floess RHCT (Certificate Number 605010084735240) Chief Architect FlossWare http://sourceforge.net/projects/flossware http://flossware.sourceforge.net https://github.com/organizations/FlossWare
I wonder then what people would think about my running SL6 (centos 6 wasn't out yet) on an old P3-866 Toughbook w/ 768MB RAM? :)
Only machine in my inventory that I can drag *everywhere* and still doesn't complain.
Oh wow 768 MB - nice. My laptops have 256 MB and 384 MB - how's that for old :)
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011, Drew wrote:
I wonder then what people would think about my running SL6 (centos 6 wasn't out yet) on an old P3-866 Toughbook w/ 768MB RAM? :)
Only machine in my inventory that I can drag *everywhere* and still doesn't complain.
-- Drew _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Scot P. Floess RHCT (Certificate Number 605010084735240) Chief Architect FlossWare http://sourceforge.net/projects/flossware http://flossware.sourceforge.net https://github.com/organizations/FlossWare
I was pleased as most of that era toughbook had 256 or 512 if you were lucky. I upgraded the drive to 80GB and I dual-boot XP for a couple apps. Fun machine.
My first linux box, a Redhat 4 machine, ran on a Pentium-133 and had 32megs when I got it. RH6 wouldn't install and I had to custom compile a NIC driver that wasn't included in the stock kernel. That was with maybe three days experience. :-)
-Drew
On 07/27/2011, Scot P. Floess sfloess@nc.rr.com wrote:
Oh wow 768 MB - nice. My laptops have 256 MB and 384 MB - how's that for old :)
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011, Drew wrote:
I wonder then what people would think about my running SL6 (centos 6 wasn't out yet) on an old P3-866 Toughbook w/ 768MB RAM? :)
Only machine in my inventory that I can drag *everywhere* and still doesn't complain.
-- Drew _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Scot P. Floess RHCT (Certificate Number 605010084735240) Chief Architect FlossWare http://sourceforge.net/projects/flossware http://flossware.sourceforge.net https://github.com/organizations/FlossWare _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/27/11 10:33 AM, Always Learning wrote:
The 26" 66cm television is my bedroom is 14 years old.
and probably draws triple the power and heat as a modern LCD screen, as well as taking 2 feet or more of depth.
And less than a plasma screen, with the addition that if you turn it off, it does *not* draw power.
Oh, and isn't hundreds of dollars that the OP may not want to spend.
re; the 6 yr old laptop... I in fact have a old pentium-M PATA laptop myself. I use it almost exclusively as a remote terminal and due to its old hardware, max 2GB ram, etc, would only run a lightweight older OS suitable for it.
Yeah, this is *linux*: it runs on anything....
mark
On 07/27/11 11:29 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
And less than a plasma screen, with the addition that if you turn it off, it does*not* draw power.
Many CRT's made in the last 20 years kept the filaments preheated so they could fire up faster. and of course, anything with a remote control that has 'power on' is keeping its control processor running looking for that power on signal...
John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/27/11 11:29 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
And less than a plasma screen, with the addition that if you turn it off, it does*not* draw power.
Many CRT's made in the last 20 years kept the filaments preheated so they could fire up faster. and of course, anything with a remote control that has 'power on' is keeping its control processor running looking for that power on signal...
Except for those of us who hit the power button, and all lights seem to go off, and the tv itself cools off.
mark
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
*snip*
Yeah, this is *linux*: it runs on anything....
Of course. The smallest usable Linux distros I know of is:
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
# Run light enough to power a 486DX with 16MB of Ram # Run fully in RAM with as little as 128MB (you will be amazed at how fast your computer can be!)
DSL was originally developed as an experiment to see how many usable desktop applications can fit inside a 50MB live CD. It was at first just a personal tool/toy. But over time Damn Small Linux grew into a community project with hundreds of development hours put into refinements including a fully automated remote and local application installation system and a very versatile backup and restore system which may be used with any writable media including a hard drive, a floppy drive, or a USB device.
Kind Regards,
Keith
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On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 02:50:31 PM Keith Roberts wrote:
DSL was originally developed as an experiment to see how many usable desktop applications can fit inside a 50MB live CD.
Somewhat off-topic for the CentOS list.... however, another good one is TinyCore (and without the possibly NSFW name of DSL, depending upon where work is).
Keith Roberts wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
*snip*
Yeah, this is *linux*: it runs on anything....
Of course. The smallest usable Linux distros I know of is:
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
# Run light enough to power a 486DX with 16MB of Ram # Run fully in RAM with as little as 128MB (you will be amazed at how fast your computer can be!)
DSL was originally developed as an experiment to see how many usable desktop applications can fit inside a 50MB live CD. It was at first just a personal tool/toy. But over time
<snip> Know about it. Now, if those folks come out with the computer/wall wort with one or two RJ-45 jacks, I'll put DSL on that, and have a really open-source firewall/router.
mark
On Jul 27, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 10:15 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
you can build the kernel RPM on any other similar environment, and .... WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP??? Get over it. Either run what works on it, or get suitable hardware to run what you need.
Merely because something, or indeed someone, is old but still capable of functioning should not mean it, or they, are discarded.
Last night I was watering the rear garden with attachments brought (I recorded the date and price underneath) 22 years ago AND those spraying attachments worked perfect. The 26" 66cm television is my bedroom is 14 years old. A six year old laptop, which works, is an interesting candidate for exploring Centos and EVERYONE should be encouraged not to throw away functioning items simply because they are 'old'.
When a Centos user wants to explore the richness of the many facilities in Centos on an "old" laptop it shows the person has an enquiring mind. Such people should be encouraged not ridiculed.
Yet another decision made by Intel at some point that comes back to haunting us. Pentium Pro supports PAE. Pentium II, Pentium III. Pentium 4. But not some early Pentium M's. Then supported again. (I haven't checked the Atom).
I'm guessing that, even though the Pentium M was based on the Pentium III, someone thought that, since it was targeting laptops, who would ever need more than 4GB of RAM. So why have include it.
At Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:39:55 -0500 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
On Jul 27, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 10:15 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
you can build the kernel RPM on any other similar environment, and .... WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP??? Get over it. Either run what works on it, or get suitable hardware to run what you need.
Merely because something, or indeed someone, is old but still capable of functioning should not mean it, or they, are discarded.
Last night I was watering the rear garden with attachments brought (I recorded the date and price underneath) 22 years ago AND those spraying attachments worked perfect. The 26" 66cm television is my bedroom is 14 years old. A six year old laptop, which works, is an interesting candidate for exploring Centos and EVERYONE should be encouraged not to throw away functioning items simply because they are 'old'.
When a Centos user wants to explore the richness of the many facilities in Centos on an "old" laptop it shows the person has an enquiring mind. Such people should be encouraged not ridiculed.
Yet another decision made by Intel at some point that comes back to haunting us. Pentium Pro supports PAE. Pentium II, Pentium III. Pentium 4. But not some early Pentium M's. Then supported again. (I haven't checked the Atom).
I'm guessing that, even though the Pentium M was based on the Pentium III, someone thought that, since it was targeting laptops, who would ever need more than 4GB of RAM. So why have include it.
There may likely have been issues with die size, power issues, etc. and yes, given that putting more than 4G on laptops of that vintage would been unlikely (again for power, motherboard chipset limitation, etc.), it would be logical *at the time* to ditch 'unnecessary' support logic on the processor in order to meet other requirements.
And yes, tossing *perfectly working* stuff into landfills is really dumb. Not an eco-friendly thing to do either. The old machine might not be useful for current mission critical production purposes, but could be just fine as an experimental test bed or something else not so demanding.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 28 July 2011 03:09, Robert Heller heller@deepsoft.com wrote:
At Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:39:55 -0500 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
On Jul 27, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 10:15 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
you can build the kernel RPM on any other similar environment, and .... WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP???
6r old laptops owned by parents or grandparents may be one of the targets for centos6.
The amount of time i spend providing tech support for my parents has decreased by several orders of magnitude by converting them onto centos5 a few years ago and i can even support them remotely (using an old 256MB dell latitude L400 that is perfectly happy running 5.6 and is my daily use computer) It seems that by excluding what are relatively modern CPUs in order to drop support for the original pentium chip is a bit short sighted (especially when fedora still allows non-PAE)
"ok mum, lets get you setup with centos6..oh dear.. it looks like you bought your laptop at exactly the wrong period in intel's mobile cpu history...unlucky. Ah well, lets go down to $PC_VENDOR and get you something with m$'s latest rubbish on it. Bring your purse"
my prediction for rhel 7 - if your chip doesn't do VT-d then no goodness for you (eg if you buy a i5-2500k rather than the i5-2500 - same ****** processor but with one hand intel giveth and with the other they take away)
</rant>
mike
On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 11:33 +0100, Michael Simpson wrote:
"ok mum, lets get you setup with centos6..oh dear.. it looks like you bought your laptop at exactly the wrong period in intel's mobile cpu history...unlucky. Ah well, lets go down to $PC_VENDOR and get you something with m$'s latest rubbish on it. Bring your purse"
... and do not forget to pay the GBP 90 (Euro 100, USD 150) compulsory Windoze tax on the new computer ! In England it is impossible, in my experience, to purchase a new computer from a major retailer without paying the Windoze tax.
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011, Always Learning wrote:
*snip*
... and do not forget to pay the GBP 90 (Euro 100, USD 150) compulsory Windoze tax on the new computer ! In England it is impossible, in my experience, to purchase a new computer from a major retailer without paying the Windoze tax.
Yes. But the Geman court, part of the EEA decided that if somebody buys a new PC with a M$ OS as part of the bundle, and they don't want the M$ OS, they can choose to resell the M$ OS onto a third party to recover the costs they paid for it.
See ebay.co.uk for examples of this.
Kind Regards,
Keith Roberts
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On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:15 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote:
you can build the kernel RPM on any other similar environment, and .... WHY ARE YOU/WE WASTING Y/OUR TIME ON A 6 YR OLD LAPTOP??? Get over it. Either run what works on it, or get suitable hardware to run what you need.
He's not the only one interested in a non-PAE kernel for Pentium a M laptop -- so this thread is definitely not a "waste of time" for me -- though I'll probably stick with CentOS 5.x on the laptop. And I, personally, don't have a computer that's *less* than six years old. But they still work fine for me -- the desktop (GX270 from 2004) *does* support PAE, so I have the option to go to CentOS 6.x on it.
At Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:53:49 +0200 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
On Tuesday 26 July 2011 20:55:58 John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/26/11 4:27 PM, Kevin K wrote:
Does anyone know what I would have to modify in 6 if I wanted to run on an older Pentium M CPU without PAE? Is it just the
kernel that needs to be rebuilt (maybe while installed in a system with a supported CPU)? Or are there other components that would cause problems and need to be rebuilt too?
generically, you'd install the kernel srpm, and modify its rpmbuild scripts to change the HIGHMEM64G kernel configure option to HIGHMEM4G ... I would also change the name of this kernel (I'd add -noPAE to it, I think), and the builder name, then run rpmbuild.
specifically, I haven't done this in quite a long time, so would have to figure out the details as I went along.
And how exactly would you do that if the installation just can't proceed if it detects you do not have a PAE processor?
You'll have to 'coss install' -- put the disk in a machine with PAE support and install it there, load the kernel srpm, rebuild and install the kernel, etc. and then install the disk in the original machine. It might be possible to cross rebuild the kernel and use a kickstart file to deal with the kernel issue, but I am not sure how to do that.
Regards,
Marc Deop _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:53 AM, Marc Deop damnshock@gmail.com wrote:
And how exactly would you do that if the installation just can't proceed if it detects you do not have a PAE processor?
Here's a "work-around" method posted at Scientific Linux to install version 6 on a non-PAE computer. I'm pretty sure it could be applied to CentOS as well. I don't know how practical it is in the long run but, at the very least, I think it would give you a bootable CentOS (or SL) 6 install on a non-PAE system. From there you could probably compile your own kernel.
It all starts by booting from a netinst iso for Fedora 13.
http://scientificlinuxforum.org/index.php?showtopic=621
On Jul 26, 2011, at 10:55 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
On 07/26/11 4:27 PM, Kevin K wrote:
Does anyone know what I would have to modify in 6 if I wanted to run on an older Pentium M CPU without PAE? Is it just the kernel that needs to be rebuilt (maybe while installed in a system with a supported CPU)? Or are there other components that would cause problems and need to be rebuilt too?
generically, you'd install the kernel srpm, and modify its rpmbuild scripts to change the HIGHMEM64G kernel configure option to HIGHMEM4G ... I would also change the name of this kernel (I'd add -noPAE to it, I think), and the builder name, then run rpmbuild.
specifically, I haven't done this in quite a long time, so would have to figure out the details as I went along.
Thanks. I had worried that there might be some other packages that would have to be updated. Like back in the day when OS's started to target 686's, and a few other packages like glibc would have a 686 version.
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Always Learning -
Drew -
John R Pierce -
Keith Roberts -
Kevin K -
Lamar Owen -
Les Mikesell -
m.roth＠5-cent.us -
Marc Deop -
Michael Simpson -
Robert Heller -
Ron Blizzard -
Scot P. Floess