Hi to all,
I have some suggestions to make about the CentOS 3.
I think that this would be great to include many questions we have on this mailing list into the FAQs of the centOS site. They are so poor, that we feel like nothing is happening for this centos 3, and in fact this seems to be a very good distribution.. too sad.. Probably that finding a way to access the mailing list archive through a search for non-subscribers would help a lot new users, and motivate them.
I also had contact with the switch.ch mirror site of Switzerland (1Gbit/s), and they would be ready to mirror your distribution if it would become more known. So there should not be any bandwidth problems, and I wish that CentOS 3 will become known from the others. It's so strange, nobody knows about it..
A better documentation on your site would perhaps also help a bit, and motivate people to use it. Especially making a bigger difference on the site between cAos and CentOS 3 would be great (the way the site is designed). I also regret to not find any information on google groups about that. It's so sad.. Isn't it possible to post your e-mails to google groups (open a new channel for centos, etc..) ?
In all cases, thank you for all, I'm very pleased to use CentOS 3 and try to make it known by others !
Hope this will help..
Daniel
Hmmmm, do I hear my name being called here?
Lance are you around?
.dn
dan1 wrote:
Hi to all,
I have some suggestions to make about the CentOS 3.
I think that this would be great to include many questions we have on this mailing list into the FAQs of the centOS site. They are so poor, that we feel like nothing is happening for this centos 3, and in fact this seems to be a very good distribution.. too sad.. Probably that finding a way to access the mailing list archive through a search for non-subscribers would help a lot new users, and motivate them.
I also had contact with the switch.ch mirror site of Switzerland (1Gbit/s), and they would be ready to mirror your distribution if it would become more known. So there should not be any bandwidth problems, and I wish that CentOS 3 will become known from the others. It's so strange, nobody knows about it..
A better documentation on your site would perhaps also help a bit, and motivate people to use it. Especially making a bigger difference on the site between cAos and CentOS 3 would be great (the way the site is designed). I also regret to not find any information on google groups about that. It's so sad.. Isn't it possible to post your e-mails to google groups (open a new channel for centos, etc..) ?
In all cases, thank you for all, I'm very pleased to use CentOS 3 and try to make it known by others !
Hope this will help..
Daniel
CentOS mailing list CentOS@caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
What about some kind of overall color scheme? something like Green = cAos 1 or 2 Red = CentOS 3 Blue = CentOS 2
On the main page, show the latest announcement for each distro with it's color coded icon beside it. These could include errata announcements which are issued more frequently than other distro news (for CentOS 2/3 anyway).
Each distro can then have a color coded info & faq page.
I think another thing we should have is a 'migration centre' which can help people decide what product and procedure to use to upgrade from various distros.
Something along the lines of: RedHat 7.2 -> reinstall with CentOS-2 -> reinstall with CentOS-3.1 -> reinstall with cAos -> live update to CentOS-2 RedHat 9 -> reinstall CentOS-3.1 -> live update to CentOS-3.1 RHEL 2.1 -> live update to CentOS-2 RHEL 3 -> live update to CentOS-3
And I am sure there are more. For each procedure, instructions and pitfalls etc can be listed, perhaps with community feedback etc.
donavan nelson wrote:
Hmmmm, do I hear my name being called here?
Lance are you around?
...
Especially making a bigger difference on the site between cAos and CentOS 3 would be great (the way the site is designed). I also regret to not find any information on google groups about that. It's so sad.. Isn't it possible to post your e-mails to google groups (open a new channel for centos, etc..) ?
In all cases, thank you for all, I'm very pleased to use CentOS 3 and try to make it known by others !
Hope this will help..
Daniel
CentOS mailing list CentOS@caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, John Newbigin wrote:
What about some kind of overall color scheme? something like Green = cAos 1 or 2 Red = CentOS 3 Blue = CentOS 2
On the main page, show the latest announcement for each distro with it's color coded icon beside it. These could include errata announcements which are issued more frequently than other distro news (for CentOS 2/3 anyway).
Each distro can then have a color coded info & faq page.
I am in favour of a completely separate website for CentOS , at www.centos.org , obviously linked to the caosity website.
This is the only way IMHO to avoid the current confusion.
Hopefully donavan is ready to start work on it :)
I think another thing we should have is a 'migration centre' which can help people decide what product and procedure to use to upgrade from various distros.
Something along the lines of: RedHat 7.2 -> reinstall with CentOS-2 -> reinstall with CentOS-3.1 -> reinstall with cAos -> live update to CentOS-2 RedHat 9 -> reinstall CentOS-3.1 -> live update to CentOS-3.1 RHEL 2.1 -> live update to CentOS-2 RHEL 3 -> live update to CentOS-3
And I am sure there are more. For each procedure, instructions and pitfalls etc can be listed, perhaps with community feedback etc.
Great idea - just needs someone to put it all together ....
donavan nelson wrote:
Hmmmm, do I hear my name being called here?
seems so :)
Lance are you around?
For the next couple of days ....
Regards Lance
...
Especially making a bigger difference on the site between cAos and CentOS 3 would be great (the way the site is designed). I also regret to not find any information on google groups about that. It's so sad.. Isn't it possible to post your e-mails to google groups (open a new channel for centos, etc..) ?
In all cases, thank you for all, I'm very pleased to use CentOS 3 and try to make it known by others !
Hope this will help..
Daniel
CentOS mailing list CentOS@caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I am in favour of a completely separate website for CentOS , at www.centos.org , obviously linked to the caosity website.
This is the only way IMHO to avoid the current confusion.
This is even better, because it's true that once people hear about CentOS3, the fact that there is another distrib suggested, he is quite confused. To have a website completely dedicated to CentOS 3 is far better because these OSes are so different that they are worth having their own websites.
Kind regards,
Daniel
I am in favour of a completely separate website for CentOS , at www.centos.org , obviously linked to the caosity website.
This is the only way IMHO to avoid the current confusion.
This is even better, because it's true that once people hear about
CentOS3,
the fact that there is another distrib suggested, he is quite
confused.
To have a website completely dedicated to CentOS 3 is far better
because
these OSes are so different that they are worth having their own
websites.
I also agree that separating them would be best. Perhaps a "plug" for the other on the respective websites and that's all. I am also very pleased with CentOS and feel there would be a huge following with only a little extra work on the website. I looked at all the other RHEL distros and tried installing each, I liked this one the best. I'm not a newbe but not a guru either. As an example, when looking for the CentOS maillist, I had a hard time even finding it existed on the website (even though I was subscribed to it already so I knew it existed).
I think a more current FAQ would be nice. I think a common question to add to it is "what can I ask on the Redhat lists vs. what should be asked on this list?".
HTH. Thanks to all who put this together and are making it work.
Cheers, Scott
I am sorry to say that I don't agree that a separate website is the right path. I will however _strongly_ agree that the site needs much work and organization, and we are in the progress of building a new infrastructure at the moment.
Centos is a hosted project by the cAos Foundation. There are several hosted projects by the foundation, and they are all leveraging from one another. To make the distinct appearance that any of the projects is a standalone entity would be misleading, and I don't think would do justice for any of the projects or foundation as a whole.
Another thought comes from a higher view. Think of the foundation as a company that isn't in the business of turning profit. But the company is in the business of staying alive and growing to support the projects. Pulling Centos strictly from caosity.org may give the appearance that centos (or caos linux) is not part of a team effort. I think that this is important to the foundation because as I mentioned, the foundation needs to survive. At this point, Centos is bringing in _very_ few donations to the foundation (even though it is very well known and utilized). Pulling it further away from the foundation I don't think is gonna help.
I hate to bring up donations, but one of my first priorities is to have the Foundation be able to support itself. At the moment, the developers are paying the bills for the foundation, AND donating their time and code. Why should the developers be supporting the Foundation, when there are so many users making use of it? hurmm? (https://caos.kintera.org/)
So, the fix... We are in the process of building a completely new web site and content management system. This will solve many of the problems that have been brought up, and will make it easier to find what you need about each of the hosted projects. An FAQ and Wiki system are also both in the plan as well.
Lets bring site layouts up again after the new site has been finished, and the new content has been populated. I estimate it is still 1-2 months away from completion, but you will see changes starting in the next week or two.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 08:31:45AM -0500, scott.list told me:
I am in favour of a completely separate website for CentOS , at www.centos.org , obviously linked to the caosity website.
This is the only way IMHO to avoid the current confusion.
This is even better, because it's true that once people hear about
CentOS3,
the fact that there is another distrib suggested, he is quite
confused.
To have a website completely dedicated to CentOS 3 is far better
because
these OSes are so different that they are worth having their own
websites.
I also agree that separating them would be best. Perhaps a "plug" for the other on the respective websites and that's all. I am also very pleased with CentOS and feel there would be a huge following with only a little extra work on the website. I looked at all the other RHEL distros and tried installing each, I liked this one the best. I'm not a newbe but not a guru either. As an example, when looking for the CentOS maillist, I had a hard time even finding it existed on the website (even though I was subscribed to it already so I knew it existed).
I think a more current FAQ would be nice. I think a common question to add to it is "what can I ask on the Redhat lists vs. what should be asked on this list?".
HTH. Thanks to all who put this together and are making it work.
Cheers, Scott
CentOS mailing list CentOS@caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Greg Kurtzer wrote:
I am sorry to say that I don't agree that a separate website is the right path. I will however _strongly_ agree that the site needs much work and organization, and we are in the progress of building a new infrastructure at the moment.
I do see both points.
For those of us in the know, understanding the relationship between the cAos Foundation and the cAos Community and the cAos Project and the CentOS Project is as clear as the relationship between the Mozilla Foundation and the Mozilla Community and the Mozilla project (product) and the Bugzilla project.
The same relationships exist with Apache, where there is a foundation, community, and project/product all of the same name, but also other projects/products with other names under the same foundation/community.
How do we more accurately present this to newcomers to the websites?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Rocky McGaugh told me:
I do see both points.
For those of us in the know, understanding the relationship between the cAos Foundation and the cAos Community and the cAos Project and the CentOS Project is as clear as the relationship between the Mozilla Foundation and the Mozilla Community and the Mozilla project (product) and the Bugzilla project.
The same relationships exist with Apache, where there is a foundation, community, and project/product all of the same name, but also other projects/products with other names under the same foundation/community.
How do we more accurately present this to newcomers to the websites?
Very good point/question. Possibly on the front page at caosity.org/about?
I will write some ideas down (when I get a chance). I had to explain this dozens of times at LinuxWorld, so I think I got pretty good at it. ;)
Hi all,
I'm a fairly new CentOS-3 user, just downloaded it a week ago. I must say the website is very confusing indeed.
For instance, if you go to Hosted Projects->CentOS-3, you are almost at a dead end. I would expect the subsite for CentOS there, with all the news, documentation faqs, etc.
Another thing is the mixed FAQ. Questions about cAos and CentOS are all mixed up, which adds to the confusion.
Rocky McGaugh wrote:
The same relationships exist with Apache, where there is a foundation, community, and project/product all of the same name, but also other projects/products with other names under the same foundation/community.
Apache does have subsites for their projects. Why note create caos.caosity.org, centos2.caosity.org and centos3.caosity.org? That's wat Apache does: ant.apache.org jakarta.apache.org etc...
Regards, Arjan
I concur with Greg Kurtzer's stance on this.
The CentOS and cAos distributions share a significant infrastructure, particularly the cAos Foundation and the global mirror system, and it would be a disservice to all to split the website as was suggested.
Yes, the current website leaves much to be desired. However, I've seen a mock up of the new website design that is being worked on, and it will be a very significant improvement. I hope that it may be available for at least comment & perusal soon, even if it might not be ready to be the main website for awhile.
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Greg Kurtzer wrote:
I am sorry to say that I don't agree that a separate website is the right path. I will however _strongly_ agree that the site needs much work and organization, and we are in the progress of building a new infrastructure at the moment.
Centos is a hosted project by the cAos Foundation. There are several hosted projects by the foundation, and they are all leveraging from one another. To make the distinct appearance that any of the projects is a standalone entity would be misleading, and I don't think would do justice for any of the projects or foundation as a whole.
Well I fundamentally disagree and have always wanted CentOS to have its own website.
It is only through lack of time that it hasnt happened.
Lance
On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 05:42:20PM +0100, Lance Davis told me:
Centos is a hosted project by the cAos Foundation. There are several hosted projects by the foundation, and they are all leveraging from one another. To make the distinct appearance that any of the projects is a standalone entity would be misleading, and I don't think would do justice for any of the projects or foundation as a whole.
Well I fundamentally disagree and have always wanted CentOS to have its own website.
OK.
While we have different opinions, I am not firmly attached to the idea that the main Centos pages should be on the caosity.org site. Where ever it goes, I will probably want centos.caosity.org to point there as well as centos.org. Also on caosity.org, there will be at least a one page blurb about centos, and links to centos.org.
It is only through lack of time that it hasn't happened.
This is yet another reason why I was offering html content and services on caosity.org... Anyway, I find it interesting that some people seem to have such strong opinions on this, so it must be a hot topic... Yet nobody is offering to help. ;^)
Greg Kurtzer wrote:
While we have different opinions, I am not firmly attached to the idea that
the main Centos pages should be on the caosity.org site. Where ever it goes, I will probably want centos.caosity.org to point there as well as centos.org. Also on caosity.org, there will be at least a one page blurb about centos, and links to centos.org.
Right now, www.centos.org goes to the cAos homepage, which could be confusing, since CentOS is just one project under cAos. That is why i like the idea of a redirect, where the url will change to centos.caosity.org, rather than an ANAME where the url keeps the centos.org.
I especially like the centos.caosity.org, because it would be a constant reminder that CentOS is part of something larger. Keep the centos.org though too to make it easier for people to locate.
But i think centos.caosity.org should go to CentOS specific content, rather than cAos's main page.
Even redirecting centos.caosity.org/centos.org to:
http://www.centos.org/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=62&op=page...
would be slightly less confusing, i think.
This is yet another reason why I was offering html content and services on caosity.org... Anyway, I find it interesting that some people seem to have such strong opinions on this, so it must be a hot topic... Yet nobody is offering to help. ;^)
I am trying to help by offering ideas and feedback.
On 12 Aug 2004 at 8:24, Greg Kurtzer wrote:
Centos is a hosted project by the cAos Foundation. There are several hosted projects by the foundation, and they are all leveraging from one another. To make the distinct appearance that any of the projects is a standalone entity would be misleading, and I don't think would do justice for any of the projects or foundation as a whole.
Agreed.
I hate to bring up donations, but one of my first priorities is to have the Foundation be able to support itself.
Hey, even PBS has pledge drives.
We're still in the implementation phase of rolling out CentOS 3, but we're perfectly willing to donate right now. Given the current financial situation, is it better for the foundation's budget to have a lump sum today or a commitment to quarterly/monthly payments?
---- Nels Lindquist <*> Information Systems Manager Morningstar Air Express Inc.
I am sorry to say that I don't agree that a separate website is the right path.
To be honest, I'm part of the people that thinks that if a product has it's own site, then it might be a good product because it seems professionnal and well-finished. Companies that want to avoid having a product name as it's website seem to not be really interested in this project. Also, I don't understand how a separate web site for centOS would harm the cAos Foundation. The entering money (through gifts) should be the same.
I don't think would do justice for any of the projects or foundation as a whole.
By having many links everywhere on the centos.org site to caosity.org that would hold the cAos Foundation information, this shouldn't harm them. There might also be an 'about' page that explains thoroughly about the cAos Foundation, as it is already now on the site. It would just be duplicated with caos.org and centos.org.
Pulling Centos strictly from caosity.org may give the appearance that centos (or caos
linux)
is not part of a team effort.
I don't think so, because the explanations on the main page, about page, links, and so on would really speak a lot about the cAos Foundation, and that this project is a community project. In fact, it's one of the main advantages for this product against Whitebox Linux (it might last longer), so you _have_ to boast about it on the site, and it will be known of the others that there is a big team effort behind. This might also bring in more people to help.
Also everything is different: FAQs, main page, news, documentation, help, mirrors, security, ..., which is a good reason to me do make another site. The other information are just annoying for the centOS user, and also for the cAos user.
All these considerations are only of a user point of view, which is mine. Don't take that against you guys. I just tell loudly what I think. But the best would probably to make on this mailing-list a votation, and then let the cAos decide what they would finally like to do. Lastly, I think that having two sites would increase the image of CentOS a lot, and thus bringing new users in, and also more developpers and donators. You could even keep the news common to both sites..
However, what you are about to do is already very good, and doing the change shouldn't be a too big problem.
Kind regards to all,
Daniel
Daniel
I agree with a lot of what Daniel said. I certainly do not want to take anything away from The cAos Foundation or The cAos Community, but I also do not care much about the cAos OS project (other than seeing those guys succeeding and having fun).
I'd think something like have www.centos.org redirect to centos.caosity.org with some prominent 'Return to caosity.org' link. Then have centos.caosity.org have centos specific content.
I'll admit, i am impatient. When i want info, i want it *NOW*. I don't want to wade through a bunch of cAos Foundation stuff or Cinch stuff to find something i need on CentOS.
I'd think something like have www.centos.org redirect to centos.caosity.org with some prominent 'Return to caosity.org' link. Then have centos.caosity.org have centos specific content.
This seems quite good, if having centos.org as main site is not possible (we should ask this list's users and the Foundation). I'm made a bit the same way as Rocky. I don't want to be disturbed with anything else than what I'm interested on: CentOS. It makes me lose my time, and is confusing. I would rather prefer seeing banners for a little profit for the organisation than seeing infos about something which is almost a competiting OS. It makes me like feeling frustrated to not have the benefits of the other one each time I come on the site.
I think this way: if the user typed: www.centos.org, then he probably wanted to see centOS stuff only.
Another reason: when I first came on this site, I lost quite a lot of time to understand that there were two different OSes and that I didn't need to use Cynch although I had read everything on it, etc.. Keeping centOS stuff on the centOS.org site would be much clearer, and if the Foundation accepts it, then why not doing it ?
Interesting question..
Daniel
John,
This is a great idea. I like the fact that this would seem clearer for the user to know about what distribution he needs, it's like if we would have several subdirectories in the website corresponding to the OS we want to use. The main big differences should apprear on the main page with the choice of the OS (RHEL 3 replacement for CentOS 3 (exact replicate), free updates and free license, etc..). Also, to put a big accent on the FAQs is good, because it's one of the first thing that people come to see to judge of the community activity (else just a good anonymous archive search would do it also, there would be even more answers..).
Kind regards,
Daniel
What about some kind of overall color scheme? something like Green = cAos 1 or 2 Red = CentOS 3 Blue = CentOS 2
On the main page, show the latest announcement for each distro with it's color coded icon beside it. These could include errata announcements which are issued more frequently than other distro news (for CentOS 2/3 anyway).
Each distro can then have a color coded info & faq page.
I think another thing we should have is a 'migration centre' which can help people decide what product and procedure to use to upgrade from various distros.
Something along the lines of: RedHat 7.2 -> reinstall with CentOS-2 -> reinstall with CentOS-3.1 -> reinstall with cAos -> live update to CentOS-2 RedHat 9 -> reinstall CentOS-3.1 -> live update to CentOS-3.1 RHEL 2.1 -> live update to CentOS-2 RHEL 3 -> live update to CentOS-3
And I am sure there are more. For each procedure, instructions and pitfalls etc can be listed, perhaps with community feedback etc.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:48:51AM +0200, dan1 told me:
This is a great idea. I like the fact that this would seem clearer for the user to know about what distribution he needs, it's like if we would have several subdirectories in the website corresponding to the OS we want to use.
<snip>
In addition to the other email I just sent out, this is also in the plan. The new site would implement a directory layout for pages, thus:
will bring you to the centos pages... centos.org can then be rewritten to the above url as well.
The site will maintain a common look and feel for all projects in the foundation.
-
Arjan Moraal -
dan1 -
donavan nelson -
Greg Kurtzer -
John Newbigin -
Lance Davis -
Nels Lindquist -
Rocky McGaugh -
scott.list -
Tim Mattox