On Wed, February 13, 2013 17:48, Bassem Sossan wrote:
Hello
I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there are many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, package system managing, file system and so on )...
I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge ( DNS, DHCP and Virtualization .... ) concepts using CentOS 6 GUI...
I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools and that will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced as a learner to follow command line tools before going to GUI or I can get a good knowledge and experience by implementing my skills on GUI ?
So sorry to pothering....
First, I am a *nix heretic. Second, I have been using one form of Redhat or another since v5.2 c.1999.
For the past 11 years or so I have used Webmin (shielded through IPTables for those horrified at the security implications) to administer my servers, both local and remote. I simply could not get my job done in the time available without it or something much like it. The CLI of the underlying utilities is the final arbitrator of course and there 'man <utility_name>' is your ever-present friend (usually). Nonetheless, the syntax of even the most common *nix commands is often arcane and similar utilities frequently have such subtly different variations that ones mind is sometimes driven to distraction with the inconsistencies.
A GUI, whether web based or not, at least clears away that problem for many routine tasks. In any case you will be forced to learn the cli for some utilities from the outset because there is no safe way of using them otherwise. And situations will arise where knowing how to creatively combine utilities with pipes on the command line will save a great deal of time and trouble. A GUI will never give you those opportunities. But for most day-to-day stuff a GUI saves a considerable amount of effort and prevents a great deal of error. Both of which for a newcomer to Linux are of great value.
As others suggested, having a test server for experimentation is a really, really good idea. I tend to fire up guest instances on my kvm desktop for such 'proof of concept' trials but I suppose any crash-and-burn system would suffice.
Good luck and welcome.
Regards,
James B. Byrne wrote:
On Wed, February 13, 2013 17:48, Bassem Sossan wrote:
Hello
I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there are many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, package system managing, file system and so on )...
I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge ( DNS, DHCP and Virtualization .... ) concepts using CentOS 6 GUI...
I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools and that will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced as a learner to follow command line tools before going to GUI or I can get a good knowledge and experience by implementing my skills on GUI ?
So sorry to pothering....
There's already a lot of GUI built into every desktop. Have you looked at them? <snip>
it. The CLI of the underlying utilities is the final arbitrator of course and there 'man <utility_name>' is your ever-present friend (usually). Nonetheless, the syntax of even the most common *nix commands is often arcane and similar utilities frequently have such subtly different variations that ones mind is sometimes driven to distraction with the inconsistencies.
I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially obvious to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax check.
mark "but then, I also spent decades as a programmer"
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially obvious to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax check.
The 'arcane' issue isn't so much per-process as it is knowing which program does what and how or if they interact in a way that affects your upper-level task. For example, I don't think it is very obvious what you have to do for common things like giving a dhcp address with an associated dns name to a specific device. Or maybe setting up a group of users with some special file system access, samba shares, web logins with group access for several different web apps, and an email group address. And as for tar flags, if you use it for backups, which one will make your restored system bootable?
mark "but then, I also spent decades as a programmer"
Then maybe it makes sense for you for each program needed above to not do much in the way of integrating with the others. From the perspective of a user it can seem complicated.
Les Mikesell wrote:
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially
obvious
to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax check.
The 'arcane' issue isn't so much per-process as it is knowing which program does what and how or if they interact in a way that affects your upper-level task. For example, I don't think it is very obvious what you have to do for common things like giving a dhcp address with an associated dns name to a specific device. Or maybe setting up a group of users with some special file system access, samba shares, web logins with group access for several different web apps, and an email
True - but that's getting into nontrivial tasks, if you're doing it for more than your own machine at home. There are security issues, and organization policies, etc.
group address. And as for tar flags, if you use it for backups, which one will make your restored system bootable?
grub-install? <g>
mark "but then, I also spent decades as a programmer"Then maybe it makes sense for you for each program needed above to not do much in the way of integrating with the others. From the perspective of a user it can seem complicated.
No. One of the reasons I really, *really* like all versions of *Nix is that most programs *can* work together, through switches and filters.
But then, as you progress from novice to craftsman, one of the chief things you need to do is learn what the tools are, and how to use them, and how to use them at *least* as intended.
mark
On 14/02/2013 16:00, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially
obvious
to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax check.
The 'arcane' issue isn't so much per-process as it is knowing which program does what and how or if they interact in a way that affects your upper-level task. For example, I don't think it is very obvious what you have to do for common things like giving a dhcp address with an associated dns name to a specific device. Or maybe setting up a group of users with some special file system access, samba shares, web logins with group access for several different web apps, and an email
True - but that's getting into nontrivial tasks, if you're doing it for more than your own machine at home. There are security issues, and organization policies, etc.
Windows lures us into a false sense of security anyway:
"Under Windows you just run the security & policy program, click next, next, finish and 'hey' you're done, all secure...".
At least when you have to think about something you can get more real confidence that you've done it right!!
-
Giles Coochey -
James B. Byrne -
Les Mikesell -
m.roth＠5-cent.us