Hello All,
I want to ask about CentOS and money. Please do not start some kind of shitstorm over this, it isn't productive.
I have just been looking at archive.org to see when the paypal option went missing from the donate menu at centos.org. I can't pin it down, but it was there on October 16, 2010 and isn't now, so that's the information I have on that point.
There was a great deal of argy-bargy on this list when the 5.6 update was slow arriving. I don't want to go there, I was happy to see it when it arrived, as I always am when there's an update.
The impression I got was that the maintainers and packagers were working as hard as they could and were tetchy about being nagged, being unable to do more. Fair enough, but we need not adopt the status quo entirely.
The donate menu on the web site has this to say, (and more) ...
"The CentOS team would like to remind you that the primary means of substaining the development of CentOS is via contributions by CentOS users.
CentOS is now, and will continue to be totally free; however, it takes money and resources to make CentOS available.
If you are able, please consider donating to the CentOS Project. Donations of promo material, public mirrors and dedicated servers are all vital to our contined operations.
Monetary
CentOS is currently reviewing our cash donation program. In the mean time we are not accepting any financial donations. We do appreciate though, if you want to - for example - help out with promo material. See our Wiki page on donations for more up to date information."
So referring as directed to the wiki page shows:
"Resource and financial needs
The CentOS Project is entirely based on the efforts of volunteers. We rely on contributions and donations from CentOS users as well, for:
* Logistics related to promotion and infrastructure * Specific hardware needs * Bandwidth and connectivity * Promotion material at conferences and exhibitions * Organizing CentOS-related events "
I don't see anything there about money except in the first line and I'm really curious why. Internally it is clear that if the team hasn't put in place some cash donation basis probably the capacity isn't there. But the current team need not go into areas where they have no time or (perhaps) expertise. There are lots of capable money folks in the free software world who can and do accept donations and deal with administrative infrastructure and channel support to projects. So the name apache-friends is suggestive. Without necessarily using that model I wonder why there isn't a CentOS Friends group or fund to which I and others can donate. I can't help but believe that if there were, say, a couple of paid staff with CentOS as the day job, things would not be so burdensome to the devs we have now and maybe we could build on that.
For my part, I installed CentOS on some machines I administer for non-profit groups in Canada. The lack of licencing fees makes a big difference to them, non-profits groups are perpetuually long on brains and short on cash. But even so I think we could cough up, say, ten bucks a year per machine to put some payback into CentOS. Given general widespread goodwill this might be multiplied significantly.
I have not seen this discussed on the list and would be happy to know if there is some reason it hasn't been attempted.
Please let me repeat, this is meant as a constructive suggestion, there is no problem with the product, quite the reverse.
Comments?
Dave
on 5/5/2011 1:55 PM Dave Stevens spake the following:
Hello All,
I want to ask about CentOS and money. Please do not start some kind of shitstorm over this, it isn't productive.
I have just been looking at archive.org to see when the paypal option went missing from the donate menu at centos.org. I can't pin it down, but it was there on October 16, 2010 and isn't now, so that's the information I have on that point.
There was a great deal of argy-bargy on this list when the 5.6 update was slow arriving. I don't want to go there, I was happy to see it when it arrived, as I always am when there's an update.
The impression I got was that the maintainers and packagers were working as hard as they could and were tetchy about being nagged, being unable to do more. Fair enough, but we need not adopt the status quo entirely.
The donate menu on the web site has this to say, (and more) ...
"The CentOS team would like to remind you that the primary means of substaining the development of CentOS is via contributions by CentOS users.
CentOS is now, and will continue to be totally free; however, it takes money and resources to make CentOS available.
If you are able, please consider donating to the CentOS Project. Donations of promo material, public mirrors and dedicated servers are all vital to our contined operations.
Monetary
CentOS is currently reviewing our cash donation program. In the mean time we are not accepting any financial donations. We do appreciate though, if you want to - for example - help out with promo material. See our Wiki page on donations for more up to date information."
So referring as directed to the wiki page shows:
"Resource and financial needs
The CentOS Project is entirely based on the efforts of volunteers. We rely on contributions and donations from CentOS users as well, for:
* Logistics related to promotion and infrastructure * Specific hardware needs * Bandwidth and connectivity * Promotion material at conferences and exhibitions * Organizing CentOS-related events "
I don't see anything there about money except in the first line and I'm really curious why. Internally it is clear that if the team hasn't put in place some cash donation basis probably the capacity isn't there. But the current team need not go into areas where they have no time or (perhaps) expertise. There are lots of capable money folks in the free software world who can and do accept donations and deal with administrative infrastructure and channel support to projects. So the name apache-friends is suggestive. Without necessarily using that model I wonder why there isn't a CentOS Friends group or fund to which I and others can donate. I can't help but believe that if there were, say, a couple of paid staff with CentOS as the day job, things would not be so burdensome to the devs we have now and maybe we could build on that.
For my part, I installed CentOS on some machines I administer for non-profit groups in Canada. The lack of licencing fees makes a big difference to them, non-profits groups are perpetuually long on brains and short on cash. But even so I think we could cough up, say, ten bucks a year per machine to put some payback into CentOS. Given general widespread goodwill this might be multiplied significantly.
I have not seen this discussed on the list and would be happy to know if there is some reason it hasn't been attempted.
Please let me repeat, this is meant as a constructive suggestion, there is no problem with the product, quite the reverse.
Comments?
Dave
Here is a bit of why the donation button went away (It was back in 2009 or so)...
On 05/05/2011 10:51 PM, Phil Schaffner wrote:
Scott Silva wrote on 05/05/2011 05:03 PM:
Here is a bit of why the donation button went away (It was back in 2009 or so)...
Old news, that does not explain why monetary donations are still not being accepted.
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts - I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
- KB
On Thursday, May 05, 2011 04:04:06 PM Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 05/05/2011 10:51 PM, Phil Schaffner wrote:
Scott Silva wrote on 05/05/2011 05:03 PM:
Here is a bit of why the donation button went away (It was back in 2009 or so)...
Old news, that does not explain why monetary donations are still not being accepted.
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts - I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
- KB
Thank you. How can I find out who the guys are?
Dave
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Dave Stevens wrote on 05/05/2011 07:11 PM:
Thank you. How can I find out who the guys are?
Go to https://www.centos.org/ and look under "Information" on the menu bar.
Phil
On 6 May 2011 00:04, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts - I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
What about mercenary? Desperate to have a CentOS t-shirt here. :)
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts - I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
Don't forget about us "little guys!" Centos/RHEL also build on upstream projects which would be happy to take donations until the CentOS donation system is ironed out.
For example: http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html http://openvas.org/professional-services.html (FOSS security auditing software) -- commission us to write new documentation or new features [*] http://www.lighttpd.net/thank-you (lighttpd web server) https://my.fsf.org/donate/ (GNU/FSF)
[*] Due notice, this is a project I am an active developer for.
On 05/06/2011 10:00 AM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
On 6 May 2011 00:04, Karanbir Singhmail-lists@karan.org wrote:
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts - I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
What about mercenary? Desperate to have a CentOS t-shirt here. :)
Come to the CentOS PubCrawl and as long as you can fit into something from a size Small to a size XXL, I'll make sure you get a T-Shirt ( and the beer is sponsored too... )
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
- KB
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Come to the CentOS PubCrawl and as long as you can fit into something from a size Small to a size XXL, I'll make sure you get a T-Shirt ( and the beer is sponsored too... )
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
Funnily enough I only mentioned that I owed you guys a beer a few days ago. See you on Tuesday
On 05/06/2011 04:49 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
Funnily enough I only mentioned that I owed you guys a beer a few days ago. See you on Tuesday
thats cool, look forward to seeing you there. Pass the word along btw, there are plenty more places available for beer on the evening.
- KB
On Fri, May 06, 2011 at 04:54:39PM +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 05/06/2011 04:49 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
Funnily enough I only mentioned that I owed you guys a beer a few days ago. See you on Tuesday
thats cool, look forward to seeing you there. Pass the word along btw, there are plenty more places available for beer on the evening.
Unfortunately, it's a bit of a swim from North America,... while I wasn't directly invited, I nevertheless won't be able to make it. I'd also dearly love a Centos shirt,... do similar events ever occur in or around Boston?
fred smith wrote:
On Fri, May 06, 2011 at 04:54:39PM +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 05/06/2011 04:49 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it
already.
Funnily enough I only mentioned that I owed you guys a beer a few days ago. See you on Tuesday
thats cool, look forward to seeing you there. Pass the word along btw, there are plenty more places available for beer on the evening.
Unfortunately, it's a bit of a swim from North America,... while I
Google maps used to have directions from the US to London, involving driving to Fisherman's Wharf in Boston, then diving into the water, and swimming across the Atlantic....
wasn't directly invited, I nevertheless won't be able to make it. I'd also dearly love a Centos shirt,... do similar events ever occur in or around Boston?
Or DC?
mark
On 05/06/2011 07:10 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
wasn't directly invited, I nevertheless won't be able to make it. I'd also dearly love a Centos shirt,... do similar events ever occur in or around Boston?
Or DC?
Is there an open source event happening in the DC area soon ? Lets make a CentOS presence happen :)
- KB
On Friday, May 06, 2011 03:41:57 PM Karanbir Singh wrote:
Is there an open source event happening in the DC area soon ? Lets make a CentOS presence happen :)
/momentarily wishing I lived near DC... (Californian)
On 05/07/2011 12:07 AM, Benjamin Smith wrote:
On Friday, May 06, 2011 03:41:57 PM Karanbir Singh wrote:
Is there an open source event happening in the DC area soon ? Lets make
a CentOS presence happen :)
/momentarily wishing I lived near DC... (Californian)
no reason why we cant do something like this in California as well. There are quite a few open source centric / open source friendly events and get together's there right ?
- KB
On 5/6/11 6:22 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
no reason why we cant do something like this in California as well. There are quite a few open source centric / open source friendly events and get together's there right ?
One of the after-hours Birds-Of-a-Feather get togethers that are informally arranged at the O'Reilly OSCON would be a nice venue. It's in Portland this summer and I don't expect to make it but it always draws an international crowd with both sysadmin and programmer tracks. In more prosperous times I think Sun used to sponsor food/drinks at some of these events. Those days are over but someone else might do it.
On 05/06/2011 07:05 PM, fred smith wrote:
On Fri, May 06, 2011 at 04:54:39PM +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 05/06/2011 04:49 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
Unfortunately, it's a bit of a swim from North America,... while I wasn't directly invited, I nevertheless won't be able to make it. I'd also dearly love a Centos shirt,... do similar events ever occur in or around Boston?
Its a case of getting together a few people and organising it. There are a few open source events that take place in the Boston area - how about starting with identifying one open source friendly event, apply for a centos table / booth there - find a few people to man it, and we can try to get some stuff like T-Shirts etc over there.
Stephen Cox is working on a generic format for something that people can take away and use as a template for organising and managing such a 'presence'. But he is based in South Africa, and they seem to not have a lot of such events there - how about you guys drop in onto the centos-promo list, and maybe we can all jump start something. The CentOS Promo team has been very active in Europe, but pretty much everywhere else its been a blank slate. Would be awesome to kickstart localised efforts around the world.
- KB
On Friday, May 06, 2011 03:41:04 PM Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 05/06/2011 07:05 PM, fred smith wrote:
On Fri, May 06, 2011 at 04:54:39PM +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 05/06/2011 04:49 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
Unfortunately, it's a bit of a swim from North America,... while I wasn't directly invited, I nevertheless won't be able to make it. I'd also dearly love a Centos shirt,... do similar events ever occur in or around Boston?
Its a case of getting together a few people and organising it. There are a few open source events that take place in the Boston area - how about starting with identifying one open source friendly event, apply for a centos table / booth there - find a few people to man it, and we can try to get some stuff like T-Shirts etc over there.
Stephen Cox is working on a generic format for something that people can take away and use as a template for organising and managing such a 'presence'. But he is based in South Africa, and they seem to not have a lot of such events there - how about you guys drop in onto the centos-promo list, and maybe we can all jump start something. The CentOS Promo team has been very active in Europe, but pretty much everywhere else its been a blank slate. Would be awesome to kickstart localised efforts around the world.
- KB
and linuxcon would provide great visibility, August 17 - 19, 2011 · Hyatt Regency Vancouver · Vancouver, Canada
http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon
Dave
___________
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
centos-bounces@centos.org wrote:
On 05/06/2011 10:00 AM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
On 6 May 2011 00:04, Karanbir Singhmail-lists@karan.org wrote:
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts
- I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
What about mercenary? Desperate to have a CentOS t-shirt here. :)
Come to the CentOS PubCrawl and as long as you can fit into something from a size Small to a size XXL, I'll make sure you get a T-Shirt ( and the beer is sponsored too... )
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
That's the WRONG side of the bloody puddle, mate. Do you hobnob with Yankees?
Insert spiffy .sig here: Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary parts.
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What speaks against flattr or other micropayment stuff?
Am 06.05.2011 17:08, schrieb Karanbir Singh:
On 05/06/2011 10:00 AM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
On 6 May 2011 00:04, Karanbir Singhmail-lists@karan.org wrote:
One of the tasks on the table for this summer is to setup a mechanism to accept financial donations / contributions from people. If you want to contribute towards specific people's efforts - I am sure most of the guys have amazon wish lists etc in place.
What about mercenary? Desperate to have a CentOS t-shirt here. :)
Come to the CentOS PubCrawl and as long as you can fit into something from a size Small to a size XXL, I'll make sure you get a T-Shirt ( and the beer is sponsored too... )
http://centospubcrawl.eventbrite.com/ if you havent seen it already.
- KB
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos