It's got to be done, so may as well test it ...
The FAQ says to do:
dnf install centos-release-stream dnf distro-sync
This I did and everything went fine. I checked before doing the distro- sync and there was a load of new Stream repos in /etc/yum.repos.d
Rebooted the machine and dnf has gone back to only looking in 8.3, and the stream repos had disappeared.
Looking in the logs I can see this:
2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-stream-release.noarch 8.4-1.el8 will be installed 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8 will be obsoleted 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8 will be obsoleted
and
Installing: centos-stream-release noarch 8.4-1.el8 Stream-BaseOS 21 k replacing centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8 replacing centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8
The centos-stream-release RPM does not contain any repo information, that was all in centos-release-stream that has been removed. So stream has deleted itself.
It's not a good start.
I also can't seem to get back to a sensible system and have now got a system with a mixture of CentOS 8 and CentOS 8 Stream RPMs with no way of installing the Stream repos from an RPM.
I see that "subscription-manager" has been installed on this system now which it never was. Is CentOS also going to be part of that ecosystem as well?
Fortunately this was a throw-away install. I hope no one has tried the instructions in the FAQ on an important machine!
P.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020, 8:01 AM Pete Biggs pete@biggs.org.uk wrote:
It's got to be done, so may as well test it ...
The FAQ says to do:
dnf install centos-release-stream dnf distro-sync
This I did and everything went fine. I checked before doing the distro- sync and there was a load of new Stream repos in /etc/yum.repos.d
Rebooted the machine and dnf has gone back to only looking in 8.3, and the stream repos had disappeared.
Looking in the logs I can see this:
2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-stream-release.noarch 8.4-1.el8 will be installed 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8 will be obsoleted 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8 will be obsoleted
and
Installing: centos-stream-release noarch 8.4-1.el8 Stream-BaseOS 21 k replacing centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8 replacing centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8
The centos-stream-release RPM does not contain any repo information, that was all in centos-release-stream that has been removed. So stream has deleted itself.
It's not a good start.
I also can't seem to get back to a sensible system and have now got a system with a mixture of CentOS 8 and CentOS 8 Stream RPMs with no way of installing the Stream repos from an RPM.
I see that "subscription-manager" has been installed on this system now which it never was. Is CentOS also going to be part of that ecosystem as well?
Fortunately this was a throw-away install. I hope no one has tried the instructions in the FAQ on an important machine!
P.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Beta perhaps? :-o
I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
What, in amongst the hundreds of messages, he said it wasn't ready!! Why publish a FAQ and a web page telling you how to migrate without a great big banner across it saying "don't rush, it's not ready yet". Or better, don't publish anything if the instructions don't work.
Sheesh.
P.
On 12/9/20 8:31 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
What, in amongst the hundreds of messages, he said it wasn't ready!! Why publish a FAQ and a web page telling you how to migrate without a great big banner across it saying "don't rush, it's not ready yet". Or better, don't publish anything if the instructions don't work.
It (Stream) works for me .. I currently use it on all my el8 machines. I even have Plex Media Server installed on it with no issues.
I would recommend however, wait until the RHEL Engineers are the ones doing the builds .. which will be sometime in Q1 2021.
I will do the conversion from CentOS Linux 8 to Stream (8.3.2011 .. so make sure you are updated to latest before you start) and if it does not work, I will make sure it does work ASAP.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:32 AM Pete Biggs pete@biggs.org.uk wrote:
I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready,
maybe
he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
What, in amongst the hundreds of messages, he said it wasn't ready!! Why publish a FAQ and a web page telling you how to migrate without a great big banner across it saying "don't rush, it's not ready yet". Or better, don't publish anything if the instructions don't work.
Sheesh.
P.
Here is the snippet that I saw but cannot find the original, underlined the important bits that I saw...
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 22:58 Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
On 12/8/20 1:04 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, Rich Bowen wrote:
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving as the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise
Linux.
I suppose I understand the negative feedback -- CentOS 8.x will no longer be a rebuild of RHEL 8.x but will instead be some version of RHEL 8.(x + 1) -- but I'm much more interested in empirical results than in suppositions. I've taken a couple test VMs and set them to CentOS 8 Stream and will keep an eye on them. They will either prove stable or not, but (observation > guessing) in my book.
If history is any guide, they will prove very stable. If not, then I'll pour one out for CentOS and look elsewhere.
Which is the approach I recommend everyone take.
*> And, it will likely be sometime mid to late 1st quarter 2021 before> CentOS Stream is in its 'Fully Functional' state with community pull> requests and the RHEL package maintainer doing all the work in CentOS> Stream, etc . CentOS Linux 8 will still be available and updated until* *> the end of December 2021. *
On 12/9/20 8:01 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
It's got to be done, so may as well test it ...
The FAQ says to do:
dnf install centos-release-stream dnf distro-sync
This I did and everything went fine. I checked before doing the distro- sync and there was a load of new Stream repos in /etc/yum.repos.d
Rebooted the machine and dnf has gone back to only looking in 8.3, and the stream repos had disappeared.
Looking in the logs I can see this:
2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-stream-release.noarch 8.4-1.el8 will be installed 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8 will be obsoleted 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8 will be obsoleted
and
Installing: centos-stream-release noarch 8.4-1.el8 Stream-BaseOS 21 k replacing centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8 replacing centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8
The centos-stream-release RPM does not contain any repo information, that was all in centos-release-stream that has been removed. So stream has deleted itself.
It's not a good start.
I also can't seem to get back to a sensible system and have now got a system with a mixture of CentOS 8 and CentOS 8 Stream RPMs with no way of installing the Stream repos from an RPM.
I see that "subscription-manager" has been installed on this system now which it never was. Is CentOS also going to be part of that ecosystem as well?
Fortunately this was a throw-away install. I hope no one has tried the instructions in the FAQ on an important machine!
Put this line :
dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos
after
dnf install centos-release-stream
(so make it the second command)
FAQ/SITE getting updated.
On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 11:00 -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
Put this line :
dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos
after
dnf install centos-release-stream
Is there away to recover the system I tried it on - if I run that command now I get
No match for argument: centos-stream-repos Error: Unable to find a match: centos-stream-repos
If I try to install centos-release-stream I get
Package centos-stream-release-8.4-1.el8.noarch is already installed.
I can't remove it because it would result in removing a protected package.
Oh well, a wipe and re-install tomorrow probably.
P.
On 12/9/20 11:29 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 11:00 -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
Put this line :
dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos
after
dnf install centos-release-stream
Is there away to recover the system I tried it on - if I run that command now I get
No match for argument: centos-stream-repos Error: Unable to find a match: centos-stream-repos
If I try to install centos-release-stream I get
Package centos-stream-release-8.4-1.el8.noarch is already installed.
I can't remove it because it would result in removing a protected package.
Oh well, a wipe and re-install tomorrow probably.
P.
sure .. you can manually add the one repo required to manually do the swap command ..
Or maybe just install this package and then remove the other one:
you want:
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/BaseOS/x86_64/os/Packages/centos-st...
installed first
Then remove centos-repos
Or you could manually create a CentOS-Stream-BaseOS.repo (you could even name it test.repo and remove it later once switched) this will work:
[baseos] name=CentOS Stream $releasever - BaseOS mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$stream&arch=$basearch&repo=Ba... #baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/$contentdir/$stream/BaseOS/$basearch/os/ gpgcheck=1 enabled=1 gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-centosofficial
in /etc/yum.repos.d/<somename>.repo
then once the distro-sync command works, remove <somaname.repo>
Johnny - Thanks for that. It did mostly work - it wasn't keen on installing the RPM you pointed to, but once it did the distro swap worked and the system is now only using 8-stream as its repositories.
Thanks
P.
sure .. you can manually add the one repo required to manually do the swap command ..
Or maybe just install this package and then remove the other one:
you want:
stream/BaseOS/x86_64/os/Packages/centos-stream-repos-8-2.el8.noarch.rpm
installed first
Then remove centos-repos
Or you could manually create a CentOS-Stream-BaseOS.repo (you could
even
name it test.repo and remove it later once switched) this will work:
[baseos] name=CentOS Stream $releasever - BaseOS
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$stream&arch=$basearch &repo=BaseOS&infra=$infra
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/$contentdir/$stream/BaseOS/$basearch/ os/
gpgcheck=1 enabled=1 gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-centosofficial
in /etc/yum.repos.d/<somename>.repo
then once the distro-sync command works, remove <somaname.repo>
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
<SNiP> Hours of reading </SNIP>
CentOS Fans:
I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also. I would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as switching to a different distribution, advising your management to change, or similar, postpone that action for a while. Let the dust settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.
For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating CentOS 8. I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be the only way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but I'll keep my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
David
-
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:46 PM david david@daku.org wrote:
<SNiP> Hours of reading </SNIP>
CentOS Fans:
I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also. I would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as switching to a different distribution, advising your management to change, or similar, postpone that action for a while. Let the dust settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.
For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating CentOS 8. I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be the only way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but I'll keep my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
David
Do you speak on behalf of RedHat officially?
If not, I'll continue to plan to ditch them accordingly.
Considering there is entire year until "CentOS Linux 8" is EOL, and few years until "CentOS Linux 7" is eol, I agree there is no rush to switch.
I will use next 12 months to test Springdale Linux (ex PUIAS Linux) and wait and see what comes out of "Rocky Linux" startup that has started today (they already have skeleton of the team assembled and are talking about infrastructure) and if both of those fail to work out, last few months of 2021 I will learn from colleagues about Debian.
P.S. Do not expect money-grabing top of Red Hat to change "get-rich-fast" scheme, I don't... their funeral.
On 12/9/20 8:43 PM, david wrote:
<SNiP> Hours of reading </SNIP>
CentOS Fans:
I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also. I would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as switching to a different distribution, advising your management to change, or similar, postpone that action for a while. Let the dust settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.
For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating CentOS 8. I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be the only way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but I'll keep my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
David
- _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Am 09.12.20 um 21:11 schrieb Ljubomir Ljubojevic:
Considering there is entire year until "CentOS Linux 8" is EOL, and few years until "CentOS Linux 7" is eol, I agree there is no rush to switch.
I will use next 12 months to test Springdale Linux (ex PUIAS Linux) and wait and see what comes out of "Rocky Linux" startup that has started today (they already have skeleton of the team assembled and are talking about infrastructure) and if both of those fail to work out, last few months of 2021 I will learn from colleagues about Debian.
As Springdale already a 8-branch? Website shows "TBD" ...
-- Leon
TBD is only for ISO file. There is ISO for 8.1, just not for 8.2, and there is even boot.iso for 8.2 for online install.
On 12/9/20 10:05 PM, Leon Fauster via CentOS wrote:
Am 09.12.20 um 21:11 schrieb Ljubomir Ljubojevic:
Considering there is entire year until "CentOS Linux 8" is EOL, and few years until "CentOS Linux 7" is eol, I agree there is no rush to switch.
I will use next 12 months to test Springdale Linux (ex PUIAS Linux) and wait and see what comes out of "Rocky Linux" startup that has started today (they already have skeleton of the team assembled and are talking about infrastructure) and if both of those fail to work out, last few months of 2021 I will learn from colleagues about Debian.
As Springdale already a 8-branch? Website shows "TBD" ...
-- Leon
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 12/9/2020 1:43 PM, david wrote:
CentOS Fans:
I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also. I would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as switching to a different distribution, advising your management to change, or similar, postpone that action for a while. Let the dust settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.
For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating CentOS 8. I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be the only way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but I'll keep my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
David
Agreed, time will tell. I, personally, think the technical quality of streams is likely to be very high.
But I think that's the least concern. What we can decide today (without putting much thought into it) is that we cannot rely upon CentOS to be any particular thing. It's a brand and decisions will be made for us about that brand by the people paying for the work, which is their absolute right. But the "optics" of this look pretty bad. We've seen distros perish, but they generally waste away from lack of interest. Clearly, this isn't the case for CentOS.
I'm horrified by the people (none from CentOS, AFAICT) saying "CentOS doesn't owe you [CentOS user] anything!" That's like saying my friend doesn't owe me anything... Of course he doesn't, but it would be awfully unfriendly of him to inform me that, going forward, I'm going to be invoiced for our chats. If CentOS announced that it was too costly and they needed donations, I'm sure people would be less distressed if CentOS eventually died. This change seems far more mercenary. CentOS doesn't "owe" me anything, but I don't "owe" the brand anything either and I do have a strong preference for distros that seem free and governed freely.
I really cannot get too excited that the CentOS brand will be even more central to RHEL. I expect the new CentOS will be super-duper, but CentOS as we knew it is being killed, and I'm sorry to see it go.
Someone has a petition to get CentOS to reconsider... What would it matter if they do? Probably just in the velocity of people switching to Oracle/Debian/Ubuntu/Windows/ETC? and in how fast some people switch to streams or RHEL.
-Alan
-
Alan Mead -
david -
J Martin Rushton -
Johnny Hughes -
Leon Fauster -
Ljubomir Ljubojevic -
Pete Biggs -
Phelps, Matthew -
Tom Bishop