To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
I guess your Gigabyte is a desktop one....
Well, in production I used to use Intel server and workstation boards. Not the best but more cooperative than most manifacturers with kernel team I guess.
Currently I am testing some AMD stuff...
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Ryan Nichols rnichols430@gmail.com wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Personally, I like Gigabyte motherboards a lot, the GA-P35-DS3L I use with Core 2 Duo (Quad) and DDR2. I though I was going to do better with the Intel DP35DP and guess what, I like the the Gigabyte Better (personally).
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 06:43 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Juan C. Valido < jvalidolnx@juanyjosefina.com> wrote:
Personally, I like Gigabyte motherboards a lot, the GA-P35-DS3L I use with Core 2 Duo (Quad) and DDR2. I though I was going to do better with the Intel DP35DP and guess what, I like the the Gigabyte Better (personally).
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 06:43 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I would look at Tyan, Soyo, and Intel for middle of the road performance, but more over for dependability... I have also had very good luck with MSI, Asus...
john plemons
Ryan Nichols wrote:
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Juan C. Valido <jvalidolnx@juanyjosefina.com mailto:jvalidolnx@juanyjosefina.com> wrote:
Personally, I like Gigabyte motherboards a lot, the GA-P35-DS3L I use with Core 2 Duo (Quad) and DDR2. I though I was going to do better with the Intel DP35DP and guess what, I like the the Gigabyte Better (personally). On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 06:43 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote: > To all.. > > I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad > choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that > would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace > the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that > supportsthe existing.. > > Thanks, > Ryan Nichols > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org <mailto:CentOS@centos.org> > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org <mailto:CentOS@centos.org> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1433 - Release Date: 5/14/2008 4:44 PM
John Plemons wrote:
I would look at Tyan, Soyo, and Intel for middle of the road performance, but more over for dependability... I have also had very good luck with MSI, Asus...
Same here, Tyan for the really important systems (complete with ECC) inside a SuperMicro rack case. Asus for the desktops / less important servers.
(I really like the Asus M2N designs, because they use heatpipes to cool the chipset. Which means one less fan, a.k.a. moving part, to worry about in our boxes.)
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Nichols Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:35 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] Best Motherboard
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
Hmm I have this one too. It's definitely a desktop board. I have it in use as my desktop since December. No issues at all. Overclocked a little. E4500/4G DDR2/ 3 drives, 1-XP, 1-Fedora 8, 1-Centos 5.1 It's been on continuously since it was built.
Have you considered that a 100 percent failure rate may indicate it's NOT the Motherboard, but some other component/condition. Is it getting to hot, power fluctuations, etc... Looking at Newegg's reviews, it has a 5 egg rating with 1248 reviews. There are some "bad" reviews too, so anything is possible. What does Gigabyte support say? If you bought 10 at the same time and got part of a bad batch, I would think they would help you out. These have Not been out a long time. It might still be under some kind of warranty..... Dennis
Well, I guess everyone's experience is different, I've got 2 GA-P35-DS3 with Core 2 duos and a GA-MA770-GS3 with a Phenom 9600 and I love them. I've never had a problem with a Gigabyte Motherboard. Some people love Asus and I've had several go bad on me, you figure.
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 07:35 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote:
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Juan C. Valido jvalidolnx@juanyjosefina.com wrote: Personally, I like Gigabyte motherboards a lot, the GA-P35-DS3L I use with Core 2 Duo (Quad) and DDR2. I though I was going to do better with the Intel DP35DP and guess what, I like the the Gigabyte Better (personally).
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 06:43 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote: > To all.. > > I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad > choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that > would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace > the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that > supportsthe existing.. > > Thanks, > Ryan Nichols > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Juan C. Valido wrote:
Well, I guess everyone's experience is different, I've got 2 GA-P35-DS3 with Core 2 duos and a GA-MA770-GS3 with a Phenom 9600 and I love them. I've never had a problem with a Gigabyte Motherboard. Some people love Asus and I've had several go bad on me, you figure.
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 07:35 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote:
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Juan C. Valido jvalidolnx@juanyjosefina.com wrote: Personally, I like Gigabyte motherboards a lot, the GA-P35-DS3L I use with Core 2 Duo (Quad) and DDR2. I though I was going to do better with the Intel DP35DP and guess what, I like the the Gigabyte Better (personally).
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 06:43 -0500, Ryan Nichols wrote: > To all.. > > I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad > choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that > would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace > the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that > supportsthe existing.. > > Thanks, > Ryan Nichols >
I've been running a Gigabyte P35-DS4 with Intel Quad Core and 4GB ram for nearly a year and it's been solid as a rock with CentOS. The disk subsystem is well supported in AHCI mode, and decent drivers are now available for the onboard nic (there's a dkms-enabled driver in RPMForge). Being a server, I've not tested other onboard features such as sound etc. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.
Ned
on 5-15-2008 5:35 AM Ryan Nichols spake the following:
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
I haven't had failures like that since the late 90's capacitor plague! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
on 5-15-2008 4:17 PM Scott Silva spake the following:
on 5-15-2008 5:35 AM Ryan Nichols spake the following:
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
I haven't had failures like that since the late 90's capacitor plague! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
Thinking more about the 10 failures, I wonder if they were grey market boards that got re-sold instead of sent back for remanufacture. Some dealers can be less than reputable when margins get tight, and some are just plain bastards.
"Ryan Nichols" rnichols430@gmail.com writes:
Really? We bought that EXACT motherboard.. 10 to be exact and we've had 9 fail and the 10th is on its way to major failure.. the odd thing is that 10th one was the first one purchased and that was 6 months ago.
Unless you have many hundreds of servers I would not expect that failure rate from the cheapest 'free with purchase of CPU' motherboards. (assuming they were not returns. Never buy a returned motherboard.)
Are you using ESD protection?
Seriously. I worked at one place where we bought SuperMicro SuperServers and assembled them ourselves. About 1 in 3 were bad before being put in production, and the ones that we did get to production had weird problems like failed NIC cards months later.
I put in a strict anti-static regime (grounded conductive mats on the floor, the table and grounded foot and wrist straps) after that, we built another 70 servers. Only one failed, and they were rock-solid once in production.
granted, the static problem at this office was noticeable- you would walk across the room and touch something grounded and get zapped. But you can kill a motherboard with a much smaller ESD than you can feel
But being overly paranoid during assembly provably results in fewer pages in the middle of the night later on.
Ryan Nichols wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
there's an awful lot of different dual core processors.
you said 'server' motherboard, to me that would be a Xeon or Opteron board that had server centric features like ECC memory, a remote management 'lights out' console accessible over the network, and multiple gigE network interfaces. it would probably have ATI 'rage' type minimal VGA onboard, and no audio at all. it likely would have SAS onboard (or SCSI if its an older design), or at least a lot of SATA channels setup for working with a SATA backplane. it would be designed to fit into a 1U/2U chassis, with support for a PCI/PCI-express riser card. it would have PCI-Express x4 and/or PCI-X I/O slots.
this is a typical modern server board http://developer.intel.com/design/servers/boards/S5400SF/index.htm
Ryan Nichols wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
Ryan,
About 2 years ago, I build a server using a SuperMicro X6DA8-2 motherboard and it is a dual xeon processor machine with capabilities of 16G of DDR2 memory. It has dual gigabit ethernet ports, 6 usb 2.0 ports and a dual SATA controller as well as regular IDE bussmaster capabilities. I've been very happy with it, and at the time, it was not that expensive a board with the 2 cpu's on it. A couple months ago, I recased the thing back into a SuperMicro case that was optimized for that board and I wish now I'd done it when I first built it. One problem I had with it was the cpu cooler fans. The original ones were made by Intel, and they were noisy, terribly out of balance and downright bad. I replaced them with 4-pin PWM fans from SuperMicro and that machine is so quiet now, I have to feel of it to make sure it's running. The thing runs about 90 degrees operating and with the fans set up on the super quiet mode, it never even breaks a sweat. There is another version of the board that has a SCSI controller on board, but only one gigabit ethernet port. Everything else is pretty much the same. I highly recommend SuperMIcro boards and cases. Probably a bit more expensive than some of the others, but in a server, I want quality, so I pay for what I get.
HTH
Sam
Sam Drinkard wrote:
Ryan Nichols wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
Ryan,
About 2 years ago, I build a server using a SuperMicro X6DA8-2 motherboard and it is a dual xeon processor machine with capabilities of 16G of DDR2 memory. It has dual gigabit ethernet ports, 6 usb 2.0 ports and a dual SATA controller as well as regular IDE bussmaster capabilities. I've been very happy with it, and at the time, it was not that expensive a board with the 2 cpu's on it. A couple months ago, I recased the thing back into a SuperMicro case that was optimized for that board and I wish now I'd done it when I first built it. One problem I had with it was the cpu cooler fans. The original ones were made by Intel, and they were noisy, terribly out of balance and downright bad. I replaced them with 4-pin PWM fans from SuperMicro and that machine is so quiet now, I have to feel of it to make sure it's running. The thing runs about 90 degrees operating and with the fans set up on the super quiet mode, it never even breaks a sweat. There is another version of the board that has a SCSI controller on board, but only one gigabit ethernet port. Everything else is pretty much the same. I highly recommend SuperMIcro boards and cases. Probably a bit more expensive than some of the others, but in a server, I want quality, so I pay for what I get.
HTH
Sam
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
What about Dell or HP server moderboards?
Rudi Ahlers wrote:
What about Dell or HP server moderboards?
Dell - only use when you cant really afford anything else.
HP - good stuff, hangs around forever and they usually have good functional support people.
IBM - good stuff, but depending on the vendor you get, support is a bit of a lottery.
for homebrew kit - Tyan has some good kit, cluefull support guys ( you can normally get all the way down to the BIOS development team to work out issues if you need it ). SuperMicro used to be good, they seem to suffer from massive quality issues these days ever since they started getting into the commodity markets.
Just my 2bits
- KB
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Rudi Ahlers wrote:
What about Dell or HP server moderboards?
Dell - only use when you cant really afford anything else.
HP - good stuff, hangs around forever and they usually have good functional support people.
IBM - good stuff, but depending on the vendor you get, support is a bit of a lottery.
for homebrew kit - Tyan has some good kit, cluefull support guys ( you can normally get all the way down to the BIOS development team to work out issues if you need it ). SuperMicro used to be good, they seem to suffer from massive quality issues these days ever since they started getting into the commodity markets.
Just my 2bits
- KB
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
SuperMicro isn't really available in our country, and everone uses either Dell or HP. I prefer Gigabyte, and have never had any problems with it on the entry level server side. For dual CPU systems I use Intel with good results as well
I guess one question is, what is your budget?? Makes a big difference in the quality that you get...
john
Rudi Ahlers wrote:
Sam Drinkard wrote:
Ryan Nichols wrote:
To all..
I was using a Gigabyte motherboard, and the board seems like a bad choice. What do you guys recommend for a decent server board that would use a Dual Core processor and DDR2 ram. I dont want to replace the CPU and Mem i already have, just find a decent board that supportsthe existing..
Thanks, Ryan Nichols
Ryan,
About 2 years ago, I build a server using a SuperMicro X6DA8-2 motherboard and it is a dual xeon processor machine with capabilities of 16G of DDR2 memory. It has dual gigabit ethernet ports, 6 usb 2.0 ports and a dual SATA controller as well as regular IDE bussmaster capabilities. I've been very happy with it, and at the time, it was not that expensive a board with the 2 cpu's on it. A couple months ago, I recased the thing back into a SuperMicro case that was optimized for that board and I wish now I'd done it when I first built it. One problem I had with it was the cpu cooler fans. The original ones were made by Intel, and they were noisy, terribly out of balance and downright bad. I replaced them with 4-pin PWM fans from SuperMicro and that machine is so quiet now, I have to feel of it to make sure it's running. The thing runs about 90 degrees operating and with the fans set up on the super quiet mode, it never even breaks a sweat. There is another version of the board that has a SCSI controller on board, but only one gigabit ethernet port. Everything else is pretty much the same. I highly recommend SuperMIcro boards and cases. Probably a bit more expensive than some of the others, but in a server, I want quality, so I pay for what I get.
HTH
Sam
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
What about Dell or HP server moderboards?
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM
John Plemons wrote:
I guess one question is, what is your budget?? Makes a big difference in the quality that you get...
dude, what with the emails with dozens of blank links and top posts and uncroped quotes ? It would be nice if you made the effort. Specially since you are using a MUA that makes such things trivial.
- KB
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
cheers Simon
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Yes, it's definitely cheaper. I find that the CPU's, RAM & HDD's are almost twice the price from Dell, than from a supplier who imports directly. Dell's motherboards are also more expensive, although their chassis are more or less the same price
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
Well, there is always the category of home servers... in my case, these are usually handmedown PCs, old, too slow to be a modern desktop, but perfectly usefull as firewalls, DNS/mail/web servers, etc. My current home server is a 10 year old P2 450Mhz rock solid board. But, I'd never use something like this in a business where its mission critical.
I, for one (an opinionated one at that:D) do NOT recommend homebrewing proper rackmount servers from raw parts... storage integration issues alone can break a project like that.
there's a middle ground... folks like Intel and Tyan make 'server bases', or kit servers, which comes with the rack chassis, hotswap backplanes, disk drive trays, mainboard and power supply, you just supply the CPUs, RAM, disk drives, and any extra cards you need.
6 or so years ago I built up and deployed a pair of Intel SE7501WV2 2U kits in my development lab at work, with dual xeon 2.8ghz and 3GB ram. these machines have run flawlessly running RHEL/CentOS. My department had no capital budget, and we could get these kit servers on 'expense' money, then populate them with our 'misc' budget. fully configured these were way under 1/2 what we'd have paid for a comparable HP or Dell. This would be the equivalent system with today's chipset and CPUs, http://developer.intel.com/design/servers/platforms/SR1500-2500/index.htm (the SR2500AL). The SKU SR2500ALLXR (2U, mobo, 1 of 2 PSUs, and 5 x SATA/SAS 3.5" hotswap backplane) goes for $1300-1600 street prices (wow, just about what I paid for the SE7501WV2 6 years ago! hmmm, when I bought mine, the slimline CD was standard, now its optional, oh well)
these Intel server kits are even setup so you can 'brand' them for VAR applications, they have downloads that let you put your own name on the BIOS startup and so forth. In fact, the SE7501 2U servers I have were branded by Sun when they initially reentered the x86 server market, as the SunFire V65x
What you get with a brand name server (HP, Dell, etc) is a warranty and onsite support. This is critical to some deployments and sites, and fairly superfluous to others.
If interested, I have some new IBM's still under warranty, a couple of New Dells, and one or two new HP's
john
John R Pierce wrote:
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
Well, there is always the category of home servers... in my case, these are usually handmedown PCs, old, too slow to be a modern desktop, but perfectly usefull as firewalls, DNS/mail/web servers, etc. My current home server is a 10 year old P2 450Mhz rock solid board. But, I'd never use something like this in a business where its mission critical.
I, for one (an opinionated one at that:D) do NOT recommend homebrewing proper rackmount servers from raw parts... storage integration issues alone can break a project like that.
there's a middle ground... folks like Intel and Tyan make 'server bases', or kit servers, which comes with the rack chassis, hotswap backplanes, disk drive trays, mainboard and power supply, you just supply the CPUs, RAM, disk drives, and any extra cards you need.
6 or so years ago I built up and deployed a pair of Intel SE7501WV2 2U kits in my development lab at work, with dual xeon 2.8ghz and 3GB ram. these machines have run flawlessly running RHEL/CentOS. My department had no capital budget, and we could get these kit servers on 'expense' money, then populate them with our 'misc' budget. fully configured these were way under 1/2 what we'd have paid for a comparable HP or Dell. This would be the equivalent system with today's chipset and CPUs, http://developer.intel.com/design/servers/platforms/SR1500-2500/index.htm (the SR2500AL). The SKU SR2500ALLXR (2U, mobo, 1 of 2 PSUs, and 5 x SATA/SAS 3.5" hotswap backplane) goes for $1300-1600 street prices (wow, just about what I paid for the SE7501WV2 6 years ago! hmmm, when I bought mine, the slimline CD was standard, now its optional, oh well)
these Intel server kits are even setup so you can 'brand' them for VAR applications, they have downloads that let you put your own name on the BIOS startup and so forth. In fact, the SE7501 2U servers I have were branded by Sun when they initially reentered the x86 server market, as the SunFire V65x
What you get with a brand name server (HP, Dell, etc) is a warranty and onsite support. This is critical to some deployments and sites, and fairly superfluous to others. _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM
Oh and for the rest of you to think about, a Tyan system, with 8 dual core CPU's, and 128 gig of Ram... Also New...
John
John R Pierce wrote:
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
Well, there is always the category of home servers... in my case, these are usually handmedown PCs, old, too slow to be a modern desktop, but perfectly usefull as firewalls, DNS/mail/web servers, etc. My current home server is a 10 year old P2 450Mhz rock solid board. But, I'd never use something like this in a business where its mission critical.
I, for one (an opinionated one at that:D) do NOT recommend homebrewing proper rackmount servers from raw parts... storage integration issues alone can break a project like that.
there's a middle ground... folks like Intel and Tyan make 'server bases', or kit servers, which comes with the rack chassis, hotswap backplanes, disk drive trays, mainboard and power supply, you just supply the CPUs, RAM, disk drives, and any extra cards you need.
6 or so years ago I built up and deployed a pair of Intel SE7501WV2 2U kits in my development lab at work, with dual xeon 2.8ghz and 3GB ram. these machines have run flawlessly running RHEL/CentOS. My department had no capital budget, and we could get these kit servers on 'expense' money, then populate them with our 'misc' budget. fully configured these were way under 1/2 what we'd have paid for a comparable HP or Dell. This would be the equivalent system with today's chipset and CPUs, http://developer.intel.com/design/servers/platforms/SR1500-2500/index.htm (the SR2500AL). The SKU SR2500ALLXR (2U, mobo, 1 of 2 PSUs, and 5 x SATA/SAS 3.5" hotswap backplane) goes for $1300-1600 street prices (wow, just about what I paid for the SE7501WV2 6 years ago! hmmm, when I bought mine, the slimline CD was standard, now its optional, oh well)
these Intel server kits are even setup so you can 'brand' them for VAR applications, they have downloads that let you put your own name on the BIOS startup and so forth. In fact, the SE7501 2U servers I have were branded by Sun when they initially reentered the x86 server market, as the SunFire V65x
What you get with a brand name server (HP, Dell, etc) is a warranty and onsite support. This is critical to some deployments and sites, and fairly superfluous to others. _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM
John R Pierce wrote:
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
Well, there is always the category of home servers... in my case, these are usually handmedown PCs, old, too slow to be a modern desktop, but perfectly usefull as firewalls, DNS/mail/web servers, etc. My current home server is a 10 year old P2 450Mhz rock solid board. But, I'd never use something like this in a business where its mission critical.
I, for one (an opinionated one at that:D) do NOT recommend homebrewing proper rackmount servers from raw parts... storage integration issues alone can break a project like that.
there's a middle ground... folks like Intel and Tyan make 'server bases', or kit servers, which comes with the rack chassis, hotswap backplanes, disk drive trays, mainboard and power supply, you just supply the CPUs, RAM, disk drives, and any extra cards you need.
6 or so years ago I built up and deployed a pair of Intel SE7501WV2 2U kits in my development lab at work, with dual xeon 2.8ghz and 3GB ram. these machines have run flawlessly running RHEL/CentOS. My department had no capital budget, and we could get these kit servers on 'expense' money, then populate them with our 'misc' budget. fully configured these were way under 1/2 what we'd have paid for a comparable HP or Dell. This would be the equivalent system with today's chipset and CPUs, http://developer.intel.com/design/servers/platforms/SR1500-2500/index.htm (the SR2500AL). The SKU SR2500ALLXR (2U, mobo, 1 of 2 PSUs, and 5 x SATA/SAS 3.5" hotswap backplane) goes for $1300-1600 street prices (wow, just about what I paid for the SE7501WV2 6 years ago! hmmm, when I bought mine, the slimline CD was standard, now its optional, oh well)
these Intel server kits are even setup so you can 'brand' them for VAR applications, they have downloads that let you put your own name on the BIOS startup and so forth. In fact, the SE7501 2U servers I have were branded by Sun when they initially reentered the x86 server market, as the SunFire V65x
What you get with a brand name server (HP, Dell, etc) is a warranty and onsite support. This is critical to some deployments and sites, and fairly superfluous to others.
The company i work for used to buy only Dell servers which aren't bad. Support is generally good and they even have a repository for Linux. Since i'm in charge, we don't buy Dell anymore for various reason:
1) They costs more than server barebone and in our case, we don't really need to pay a premium for a service we don't need. I prefer to have a couple of spare servers that i can do tests while not in production
2) Dell, as the others VARs, uses a lot of non standard hardware parts. So if you want to replace let's say a mainboard (when out of warranty), you'll have to pay a premium to get it.
3) Right now, we have about 5 Dell PowerEdge 2550 and they are not supported anymore by Dell (i know, it's old!). They don't have the admin tools for CentOS (and Upstream) and i think it's the same for other distributions. So support is good for the first years, after a while, they seem to drop it.
So now, we buy Tyan barebone. The last batch was 2U Tyan Transport TA-26 (B3992-E). This model use a Broadcom Serverworks chipset, support Registered ECC DDR2 RAM up to 64 Gigs and has 2 sockets F for Opteron CPU. CentOS works great right out of the box (we use Adaptec 3405 or 3805 SAS/SATA controllers). The mainboard is standard E-ATX and can be upgraded or put on another machine. This model has 8 SAS/SATA hot swap backplane.
The only downside is that sometimes, it takes time to get them. It's like Tyan has problem producing enough for market demand.
I have a couple of other servers that i built with Antec rackmount chassis and the same mainboard.
My advice: Go with VARs if you have special requirements and/or want premium service. Go with server barebones if you have access to hardware competent tech people inside your company.
As for Intel or AMD for CPU, i buy 90% AMD because if they don't survive, just watch the prices skyrocket as Intel would be alone. AMD is selling at competitive price so no hurt here. The new line of low power Opteron are great IMHO.
As a last note, i don't have any affiliation with Tyan and i think you could get comparable hardware from SuperMicro and the likes. Choose your hardware for Linux, not the opposite!
Hope this helped a bit.
Guy Boisvert, ing. IngTegration inc.
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Guy Boisvert boisvert.guy@videotron.ca wrote:
The only downside is that sometimes, it takes time to get them. It's like Tyan has problem producing enough for market demand.
Actually from my understanding its sort of the 'opposite'. Market demand for white-box motherboards has gotten less over time as the 'cost' of selling them has gone up versus buying a finished built system from a VAR. So companies like Tyan etc make more money making the boards indirectly for VARs than they do from selling their own boards.
Its sort of like the car engine companies of the 1900's. As time went on they made smaller and smaller batches of specialized engines because the companies they had sold them to either bought them up or just had them make large batches of Ford/GM/etc engines exclusively.
Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Guy Boisvert boisvert.guy@videotron.ca wrote:
The only downside is that sometimes, it takes time to get them. It's like Tyan has problem producing enough for market demand.
Actually from my understanding its sort of the 'opposite'. Market demand for white-box motherboards has gotten less over time as the 'cost' of selling them has gone up versus buying a finished built system from a VAR. So companies like Tyan etc make more money making the boards indirectly for VARs than they do from selling their own boards.
Its sort of like the car engine companies of the 1900's. As time went on they made smaller and smaller batches of specialized engines because the companies they had sold them to either bought them up or just had them make large batches of Ford/GM/etc engines exclusively.
Yeah, that's possible. They could have big contracts with VARs.
I saw some Dell workstations with special models of Asus mainboards, which are not supported by Asus! You have to rely on the VARs for support.
Guy Boisvert, ing. IngTegration inc.
on 5-15-2008 5:13 PM Guy Boisvert spake the following:
Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Guy Boisvert boisvert.guy@videotron.ca wrote:
The only downside is that sometimes, it takes time to get them. It's like Tyan has problem producing enough for market demand.
Actually from my understanding its sort of the 'opposite'. Market demand for white-box motherboards has gotten less over time as the 'cost' of selling them has gone up versus buying a finished built system from a VAR. So companies like Tyan etc make more money making the boards indirectly for VARs than they do from selling their own boards.
Its sort of like the car engine companies of the 1900's. As time went on they made smaller and smaller batches of specialized engines because the companies they had sold them to either bought them up or just had them make large batches of Ford/GM/etc engines exclusively.
Yeah, that's possible. They could have big contracts with VARs.
I saw some Dell workstations with special models of Asus mainboards, which are not supported by Asus! You have to rely on the VARs for support.
That is one of the benefits of OEM integration. You can make it and sell it for less because the OEM picks up the cost of support. The equipment is made just "different" enough so there is no doubt it is an OEM product.
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
cheers Simon
Basically, I built it because I wanted certain components in/on the system and could not get it configured that way from any vendor. I've built every PC I've ever owned. I select components based on the type of use they would get, and the applications they are going to run. As for price, sometimes cheaper, sometimes more expensive depending on what you put in it, but in the end, when it all comes together, you have something to be proud of because you built it yourself.
Sam
Sam Drinkard wrote:
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
cheers Simon
Basically, I built it because I wanted certain components in/on the system and could not get it configured that way from any vendor. I've built every PC I've ever owned. I select components based on the type of use they would get, and the applications they are going to run. As for price, sometimes cheaper, sometimes more expensive depending on what you put in it, but in the end, when it all comes together, you have something to be proud of because you built it yourself.
Sam
That's the way I prefer todo it as well :)
This way, whether it's a server or desktop, I know it will be easy & cheaper to upgrade than using proprietary / pre-build systems like Dell for instance.
Simon Jolle sjolle urandomdev@gmail.com writes:
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I find that if you order the base package from Dell, you get a pretty good deal. sometimes better than buying the parts alone. But if you want more ram, disk, or CPU, (and the base system is pretty anemic) you usually end up paying twice market rate for the parts if you buy those upgrades from dell.
the other vendors are similar, only their kit is much nicer, and the prices across the board are higher.
I do really like the HP ILO on the high-end boxes that let you ssh into the ILO card- Much better than IPMI, imo. but really a external network-accessable rebooting power strip and a FreeBSD box with a rocketport multi-serial card in the rack does the same thing at a lower cost, and I'm more comfortable with the security on a FreeBSD box than on the ILO card.
Personally, I find that the most advantageous setup is often to buy the pre-built chassis/motherboard kit from SuperMicro or Intel, and then get the rest of the parts from Newegg or Ingram Micro.
See, there is usually only a very small premium for the chassis/motherboard assembly, which I think is worth it because I don't have to screw with the cooling system, the board fits the chassis just right, and almost all of the assembly work is done. But, at the same time, I get to pay commodity prices for ram, cpu and disk.
my new servers are intel SR1530AHLX chassis/motherboard combos, which I get from whatever reseller is currently cheapest, they are nice, but the chipset isn't yet supported by memtest86, but it is supported by bluesmoke, so good enough.
I use core2quad q6600 CPUs (I buy them at fry's, on sale) and 8Gb of crucial unbuffered ECC ddr2, which I usually get at newegg. (I think ECC is very important and worth the (rather small) premium- I don't think buffering is worth the required upgrades- I could get two or three of this kit for the price of a xeon/fbdimm setup that is only slightly faster.) I then put in 2x1Tb sata drives (usualy the consumer-grade kind rather than the enterprise kind, which only makes sense because everything is mirred and I live near the co-lo.)
total cost is around $1100-1300 for a quad-core box with 8Gb of ram and 1Tb of mirrored storage. You can do the same with higher-end kit, of course, replacing my vendors with others, and you can usually save a good chunk of change over getting the whole thing from HP/IBM/Dell.
Of course, if you have the budget, there is a support advantage to getting everything from the same place, but with my labor costs, the premium isn't worth it. The problem is that the support advantage isn't that great- You still usually can't just ship the box back to the vendor saying "It's broken" - they run a cursory check and if it's clean, they send it back.
Usually determining for sure that there is in fact a hardware problem (and you or the vendor needs to do this before the vendor will fix it) also tells you what hardware is bad- and once you know what the bad part is, the only overhead is looking up the proper vendor address.
My experience has been that I am usually better at finding hardware errors than dell (and rackable, and HP) I attribute it to the fact that if the dell tech doesn't find the problem, he gets to go home early. If I don't find the problem, the thing crashes and my pager wakes me up sunday morning.
(in my experience, sending ram back to say, corsair, or disks back to, for example, seagate after a proper diagnosis is far more likely to get me a new, working part than sending the whole kit back to dell or rackable with an "It's broken")
Simon Jolle sjolle wrote:
On 05/15/2008 04:24 PM, Sam Drinkard wrote:
About 2 years ago, I build a server
[...]
What are the advantages of building your own server comparing with products from HP, Dell and IBM? Is it cheaper?
I never heard of DIY server hardware market.
Getting exactly what you want.
Our last few test boxes have been Tyan server (Opteron F) motherboards mounted in SuperMicro server chassis (3U or 4U). We usually order two spare PSU modules, and have other spare parts laying around. So if the box dies, we can generally get it back up and running using parts we have on-hand.
However, once we switch to production systems, we'll probably go find a barebones rack server company who sells their servers with RedHat as an install option. (Which usually ensures that we get Linux compatible hardware.) Because for production stuff, I prefer to have a 3 year warranty.
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