On Tuesday 03 February 2009 08:51:32 Sorin Srbu wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
John R Pierce Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:52 PM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed
Sorin Srbu wrote:
I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok, shouldn't they?
SmartUPS, OK. BackUPS, cheap consumer junk.
I've had to toss out dozens of various BackUPS units, mostly in the 450-600VA range... They act like they have a dead/weak battery, so I replace the battery with a brand new one, and the unit is dead. They are typically 2-3 years old at this point, so hardly worth bothering with.
The APC UPS we still have left is a smallish SmartUPS. I exchanged the battery a couple of months ago. UPS still working fine as far as I can tell. Guess you're right, I'll stay away from the BackUPS-range, if we ever buy APC again. 8-/
Reason for getting BackUPS at all, was that I got more VA's for the buck. The funding I had at the time was very low. Didn't pay off in the long run, which I pointed out to my boss... ;-)
Actually, I have one box attached to a BackUPS that is about 15 years old, and has never had a replacement battery. It holds the box through power variations, and can supply power for a couple of minutes - enough to allow a shutdown, since that box is never running unattended. I got it when we upgraded the company one - it was our (the company's) first, attached to the file-server, so replaced at a reasonable age.
Anne
Anne Wilson wrote:
Actually, I have one box attached to a BackUPS that is about 15 years old, and has never had a replacement battery. It holds the box through power variations, and can supply power for a couple of minutes - enough to allow a shutdown, since that box is never running unattended. I got it when we upgraded the company one - it was our (the company's) first, attached to the file-server, so replaced at a reasonable age.
all the BackUPs I've ever seen have been simple relay switched units. when the power is on, you're getting unfiltered power (except for a MOV based surge protector), when the power is out, it switches to the "modified square wave" inverter output. By comparision, the SmartUPS like my trusty old SU2000 at home, have boost/buck AC 'regulators' for brownouts and overvoltage, and relatively sinusoidal inverter output during total blackouts. Since I put 4 x 20AH 12V batteries in this beast, I can run two PCs and my networking gear and LCDs for many hour long blackouts easily
John R Pierce wrote:
all the BackUPs I've ever seen have been simple relay switched units. when the power is on, you're getting unfiltered power (except for a MOV based surge protector), when the power is out, it switches to the "modified square wave" inverter output.
John,
There are units that change the AC to DC. The DC then charges the batteries and gets changed back to AC for the equipment. These units are very expensive though.
The relay switching types, like you mentioned, have response delays. They can let transients through. These transients can cause weird PC problems. I know, I have one of these and still a lot of transients get through to my equipment. My local service is very unreliable. The power company uses a funny set of definitions about transients so that they can claim their power is good.
tech wrote:
John R Pierce wrote:
all the BackUPs I've ever seen have been simple relay switched units. when the power is on, you're getting unfiltered power (except for a MOV based surge protector), when the power is out, it switches to the "modified square wave" inverter output.
John,
There are units that change the AC to DC. The DC then charges the batteries and gets changed back to AC for the equipment. These units are very expensive though.
There are online UPS, as you describe. I don't believe any of them have the APC BackUPS brand name on them. I don't even think APC SmartUPS are online, however as I said, the SmartUPS do have power conditioners.
on 2-3-2009 1:29 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
On Tuesday 03 February 2009 08:51:32 Sorin Srbu wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
John R Pierce Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:52 PM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed
Sorin Srbu wrote:
I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok, shouldn't they?
SmartUPS, OK. BackUPS, cheap consumer junk.
I've had to toss out dozens of various BackUPS units, mostly in the 450-600VA range... They act like they have a dead/weak battery, so I replace the battery with a brand new one, and the unit is dead. They are typically 2-3 years old at this point, so hardly worth bothering with.
The APC UPS we still have left is a smallish SmartUPS. I exchanged the battery a couple of months ago. UPS still working fine as far as I can tell. Guess you're right, I'll stay away from the BackUPS-range, if we ever buy APC again. 8-/
Reason for getting BackUPS at all, was that I got more VA's for the buck. The funding I had at the time was very low. Didn't pay off in the long run, which I pointed out to my boss... ;-)
Actually, I have one box attached to a BackUPS that is about 15 years old, and has never had a replacement battery. It holds the box through power variations, and can supply power for a couple of minutes - enough to allow a shutdown, since that box is never running unattended. I got it when we upgraded the company one - it was our (the company's) first, attached to the file-server, so replaced at a reasonable age.
Anne
I just had a Back-UPS of about 1998 vintage burst into flames about 6 months ago. Luckily, someone was near it and grabbed a fire extinguisher. It was a Saturday, and if this person hadn't been in on overtime, who knows what would have happened.
We have since replaced all Consumer grade Back-ups over 2 years old, and set a policy to only do one battery replacement and then get rid of them when the second battery dies.
I guess you never know what can happen with electricity.
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Scott Silva Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:45 PM To: centos@centos.org Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed
I just had a Back-UPS of about 1998 vintage burst into flames about 6 months ago. Luckily, someone was near it and grabbed a fire extinguisher. It was a Saturday, and if this person hadn't been in on overtime, who knows what would have happened.
Geez... I have a UPS for my admin-workstation just under the desk on the floor in front of me. Suddenly I feel a bit anxious about that...
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Scott Silva ssilva@sgvwater.com wrote: <snip>
I just had a Back-UPS of about 1998 vintage burst into flames about 6 >months ago. Luckily, someone was near it and grabbed a fire extinguisher. It was a Saturday, and if this person hadn't been in on overtime, who knows what >would have happened.
That reinforces my decision not to spend time and $ replacing batteries or repairing our high end (AVR without using the battery) Tripp Lite's. 3 of them are in the garage, to be given away or sent to the dump and have been replaced with low cost non brand name UPS. The other one is still running and when it dies, it will go into the garage.
Also, I am reminded that I need to take our 2 fire extinguishers to the fire station and pay them to discharge/recharge them. :-)
We have since replaced all Consumer grade Back-ups over 2 years old, >and set a policy to only do one battery replacement and then get rid of them when the second battery dies.
Sounds like an excellent policy. Even a brand new unit might catch fire, as that one did, but more hours of use increase the possibility.
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:36:30 -0500 Lanny Marcus wrote:
Also, I am reminded that I need to take our 2 fire extinguishers to the fire station and pay them to discharge/recharge them. :-)
Are you sure you need a full discharge/recharge? I have several in my theatre and they have to be inspected and tagged every year by a certified fire extinguisher guy. But they only need replacement or recharge if they don't meet the requirements (I think the inspector weighs them, among other things) or after something like 10 or 12 years after their last recharge.
I usually seem to end up buying or recharging a new one every year or two anyway, because one of them somehow manages to fail the inspection. Depending on the particular extinguisher, it's sometimes cheaper to replace it than to recharge it.
Which reminds me -- I have to phone Eugene to make an appointment for him to do that. My inspection tags say the next one is due in March.
on 2-4-2009 1:43 PM Frank Cox spake the following:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:36:30 -0500 Lanny Marcus wrote:
Also, I am reminded that I need to take our 2 fire extinguishers to the fire station and pay them to discharge/recharge them. :-)
Are you sure you need a full discharge/recharge? I have several in my theatre and they have to be inspected and tagged every year by a certified fire extinguisher guy. But they only need replacement or recharge if they don't meet the requirements (I think the inspector weighs them, among other things) or after something like 10 or 12 years after their last recharge.
I usually seem to end up buying or recharging a new one every year or two anyway, because one of them somehow manages to fail the inspection. Depending on the particular extinguisher, it's sometimes cheaper to replace it than to recharge it.
Here we have a service come in and they discharge all of them into a recycling container with a wire mesh strainer inside, clean and check them, then they refill and re-pressurize them with nitrogen.
They re-use the powder after it is discharged, so they only have to add a small amount for the loss of what might leak out of the recycler.
We have to physically inspect them monthly and sign each ones card, and the fire department spot checks occasionally and fines us if they find any that are missed.
The fire extinguishers always work here!
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Scott Silva ssilva@sgvwater.com wrote:
on 2-4-2009 1:43 PM Frank Cox spake the following:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:36:30 -0500 Lanny Marcus wrote:
Also, I am reminded that I need to take our 2 fire extinguishers to the fire station and pay them to discharge/recharge them. :-)
Are you sure you need a full discharge/recharge? I have several in my theatre and they have to be inspected and tagged every year by a certified fire extinguisher guy. But they only need replacement or recharge if they don't
<snip>
Here we have a service come in and they discharge all of them into a recycling container with a wire mesh strainer inside, clean and check them, then they refill and re-pressurize them with nitrogen.
They re-use the powder after it is discharged, so they only have to add a small amount for the loss of what might leak out of the recycler.
We have to physically inspect them monthly and sign each ones card, and the fire department spot checks occasionally and fines us if they find any that are missed.
The fire extinguishers always work here!
What they do where you work, IMHO, is what should be done. I don't think what Frank wrote they do for him, weigh them and put a sticker on, if they appear to be OK, is the way to go. It's like an insurance policy, something you hope never to use, but it should work properly if you need it. Testing is a good plan....
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Anne Wilson -
Frank Cox -
John R Pierce -
Lanny Marcus -
Scott Silva -
Sorin Srbu -
tech