Kai Schaetzl maillists@conactive.com wrote:
John R Pierce wrote on Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:34:49 -0700:
odder, I don't see a "In-Reply-To:" header, so I dunno HOW it appears threaded just fine.
It's been put in the thread according to the time sequence because the header you mention is missing. So, it just *appears* to be threaded, but the node where it gets put as a reply is random (here it is put as a reply to me, that is why I noticed there is something wrong). That header is missing from all of David's postings, now that I look, and he's been using several older versions of Thunderbird which can't all be broken. So, I assume he's using a broken mail gateway which strips these headers.
Kai
Rather than continue to hijack the original thread regarding dual booting, let's move this discussion to it's own thread.
The version of T-Bird I use is *always* the current version for CentOS. My mailer is sendmail again kept to the current version for CentOS. I somehow doubt that either are broken.
What is happening is I get the CentOS mailing list in digest form. That is, I get one e-mail each day with all of the previous day's posts. If I notice a topic that I feel I can contribute to, I cut and paste an appropriate e-mail from the digest and "reply" to the list setting the subject appropriately (i.e., "Re: <original subject>). This is somewhat of a pain but it is more than made up for by the convenience of getting the list traffic in digest form.
Your complaint is the first I've heard that this creates a problem for anyone. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to set the "in reply to" mail header element though T-Bird. If anyone has a reasonable (meaning doesn't take significantly more of my time than my current approach) alternative, I'm more than wiling to change how I'm posting. Giving up getting the list traffic in digest form is not acceptable.
Cheers, Dave
David G. Miller wrote:
What is happening is I get the CentOS mailing list in digest form. That is, I get one e-mail each day with all of the previous day's posts. If I notice a topic that I feel I can contribute to, I cut and paste an appropriate e-mail from the digest and "reply" to the list setting the subject appropriately (i.e., "Re: <original subject>). This is somewhat of a pain but it is more than made up for by the convenience of getting the list traffic in digest form.
Your complaint is the first I've heard that this creates a problem for anyone. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to set the "in reply to" mail header element though T-Bird. If anyone has a reasonable (meaning doesn't take significantly more of my time than my current approach) alternative, I'm more than wiling to change how I'm posting. Giving up getting the list traffic in digest form is not acceptable.
not sure, but can't you reply to individual messages if your digest is in MIME (rather than plain text)?
David G. Miller wrote:
Kai Schaetzl maillists@conactive.com wrote:
What is happening is I get the CentOS mailing list in digest form. That is, I get one e-mail each day with all of the previous day's posts. If I notice a topic that I feel I can contribute to, I cut and paste an appropriate e-mail from the digest and "reply" to the list setting the subject appropriately (i.e., "Re: <original subject>). This is somewhat of a pain but it is more than made up for by the convenience of getting the list traffic in digest form.
Your complaint is the first I've heard that this creates a problem for anyone. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to set the "in reply to" mail header element though T-Bird. If anyone has a reasonable (meaning doesn't take significantly more of my time than my current approach) alternative, I'm more than wiling to change how I'm posting. Giving up getting the list traffic in digest form is not acceptable.
I avoid the problem by accessing this list via the mail-to-news gateway on news.gmane.org and suspending the list email delivery entirely. All the messages are threaded, I don't have to store the old messages in a thread for future reference, and the only time a message shows up in my email inbox is when someone responds with "reply all" (or one of the occasional "I am away" responses) to one of my postings. It makes life on this list much more pleasant.
The only one-time hiccup is that the first time you use "Reply" via the Gmane news server you will have to respond to a confirmation message in your email. Thereafter, your replies (in that newsgroup) go straight through, just like this one does for me.
Robert Nichols <rnicholsNOSPAM@...> writes:
David G. Miller wrote:
Kai Schaetzl <maillists@...> wrote:
What is happening is I get the CentOS mailing list in digest form.
<SNIP>
I avoid the problem by accessing this list via the mail-to-news gateway on news.gmane.org and suspending the list email delivery entirely.
<and SNIP some more... Gmane enforces keeping the quoted material short>
Gmane is cool and might be the answer (this is being posted through Gmane). We'll see if they're OK with my mailserver, etc.
I really like the convenience and lack of interruptions I get with getting the list in digest form so this may be the way for me to keep the threaded readers happy while still contributing.
Cheers, Dave
David G. Miller wrote on Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:39:50 -0600:
What is happening is I get the CentOS mailing list in digest form.
Ah, that explains it. Other people usually just reply to the digest (which then creates a new thread with "Digest" in the subject) or add a note that they replied to a digest.
Giving up getting the list traffic in digest form is not acceptable.
I'm trying to understand what you mean by this statement. I've never used digests and I've never understood why one would want to use them. I imagine it may have been helpful in the past to cut down on the byte flow, so that one didn't exceed the monthly traffic allowance or so. But nowadays? Maybe if you are receiving mail on a mobile device and still pay by the byte. Then I read Robert's reply "I avoid the problem" (which problem? I thought) and "the only time a message shows up in my email inbox". I'm coming to the conclusion that you are simply not utilizing the assets of your mail program very well? All modern mail programs allow you to create your own folder structure and create "rules" that filter the in- and out-going mail to a folder of your choice. You do not have to have one "inbox" at all. I filter all incoming mail to the folder it belongs to. There is a "general" folder that gets everything that falls thru - which is rare. I have my own folder substructure for mailing lists. All mail from or to the centos-users mailing list goes to a folder named "CentOS" in this structure, where I also have "CentOS-Announce", "CentOS-Virt" and, for instance, "Dovecot" or "Xen". When I have some time I open the folder and look thru the mails, if I don't have time I don't. At times I didn't look in it for months. I don't even recognize that mail is coming in until I want to see it. I surely wouldn't want to mix these mails with my private or business mail (which is also organized in dozens of folders). And I surely don't want to skim a long digest for the very few postings that are of interest to me. The advantage of getting mail in single mail format is that you can easily set flags for deletion or ignoring or keeping (!) and that you can distinguish by the subject if you are interested in it or not. Reading thru the whole digest for interesting content occurs like a big waste of time to me.
Anyway, do as you like, but it might be helpful, if you somehow indicate you reply to a digest. Then one doesn't have to guess why you reply to the wrong message.
Kai
Kai Schaetzl <maillists@...> writes:
David G. Miller wrote on Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:39:50 -0600:
What is happening is I get the CentOS mailing list in digest form.
Ah, that explains it. Other people usually just reply to the digest (which then creates a new thread with "Digest" in the subject) or add a note that they replied to a digest.
Giving up getting the list traffic in digest form is not acceptable.
I'm trying to understand what you mean by this statement.
<SNIP>
Anyway, do as you like, but it might be helpful, if you somehow indicate you reply to a digest. Then one doesn't have to guess why you reply to the wrong message.
Kai
I just like getting the list in text digest form. The MIME format might work well on a list with less traffic but it is pretty unwieldy on a list with this much traffic when I tried it.
I have a number of old habits regarding how I use e-mail and getting the list in digest form fits better with these habits than your suggestions. I appreciate the suggestions but I'm really quite happy getting the list just once a day in digest form rather than have a steady stream of e-mails with intermittent flurries of activity that comes with getting the e-mails individually.
There are also a number of benefits to letting some topics "settle out" before I get a chance to see them or respond that I won't go into at this point. One I will point out that you will still need to contend with is as follows. People (like me) who read the digest frequently are able to take a step back from some of the discussions and bring together multiple responses and several otherwise diverging threads. The threaded message view is based on the sometimes false assumption that once threads diverge they cannot later merge. Several times I have ended up consolidating replies to several divergent threads because that's where "the answer" was to be found. The threaded view of a discussion may be a nice way of organizing the elements of the discussion but it doesn't necessarily reflect the object of the discussion which is to find an answer.
One of the other responders pointed me to Gmane as a way to reply to individual postings. I'm using Gmane to compose this and will attempt to continue using it in the future (I've been known to forget such things). Gmane appears to fit my criteria of not imposing any significant additional effort while letting me continue to enjoy the list in digest form.
Cheers, Dave
David G. Miller wrote:
I have a number of old habits regarding how I use e-mail and getting the list in digest form fits better with these habits than your suggestions. I appreciate the suggestions but I'm really quite happy getting the list just once a day in digest form rather than have a steady stream of e-mails with intermittent flurries of activity that comes with getting the e-mails individually.
Most people just let their mail client filter lists to a folder that they visit at convenient times. Now that there are free mail account services like gmail and yahoo, you can use a slightly more drastic approach and send them to a different account that your mail client can handle separately - or you might like their web interfaces. With gmail you don't have to make a choice - you can set it up so your mailer grabs a copy with POP but it also archives a copy on the server. That way you can read-and-delete locally but can use the web interface to search or follow threads farther back than you saved if you decide some topic becomes interesting later.
There are also a number of benefits to letting some topics "settle out" before I get a chance to see them or respond that I won't go into at this point. One I will point out that you will still need to contend with is as follows. People (like me) who read the digest frequently are able to take a step back from some of the discussions and bring together multiple responses and several otherwise diverging threads. The threaded message view is based on the sometimes false assumption that once threads diverge they cannot later merge. Several times I have ended up consolidating replies to several divergent threads because that's where "the answer" was to be found. The threaded view of a discussion may be a nice way of organizing the elements of the discussion but it doesn't necessarily reflect the object of the discussion which is to find an answer.
I usually read new messages backwards (newest first) so as not to bother with already-solved problems, but I still want the mailer to be able to flip to a threaded view at the push of a button when the context doesn't make sense or I want to go back farther.
One of the other responders pointed me to Gmane as a way to reply to individual postings. I'm using Gmane to compose this and will attempt to continue using it in the future (I've been known to forget such things). Gmane appears to fit my criteria of not imposing any significant additional effort while letting me continue to enjoy the list in digest form.
I'd recommend giving gmail a try too, if you haven't used it already.
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David G. Miller -
Kai Schaetzl -
Les Mikesell -
Nicolas Thierry-Mieg -
Robert Nichols