I'm looking into costs and feasibility of moving a live feed from a FM radio station from the station to a point that's past the usable range of their radio signal. It's a rural location and Internet service is not available at the station. If the destination was closer or their transmitter was more powerful, I could avoid this step and just plug in a radio, but....
My best idea so far is to rent a dedicated phone line from the station to the point where we need the feed, then get some kind of on-the-fly audio compressor to hook up to the main board in the station, push it out over the phone line, then decompress it at the destination.
I'm pretty sure there is dedicated hardware to do the compression/decompression (whatever they use to do those "radio remotes" from Sally's Sofa Sales without sounding like they are broadcasting from the bottom of a rain barrel) and I'm currently looking into that angle too, but I'm wondering if it would be cheaper/easier/better to have something running on Linux at both ends of the connection to handle the audio compression/decompression. Especially since I'm planning to run a Centos server at the destination end for other aspects of this project if we proceed with it.
Frank Cox wrote:
I'm looking into costs and feasibility of moving a live feed from a FM radio station from the station to a point that's past the usable range of their radio signal. It's a rural location and Internet service is not available at the station. If the destination was closer or their transmitter was more powerful, I could avoid this step and just plug in a radio, but....
My best idea so far is to rent a dedicated phone line from the station to the point where we need the feed, then get some kind of on-the-fly audio compressor to hook up to the main board in the station, push it out over the phone line, then decompress it at the destination.
I'm pretty sure there is dedicated hardware to do the compression/decompression (whatever they use to do those "radio remotes" from Sally's Sofa Sales without sounding like they are broadcasting from the bottom of a rain barrel) and I'm currently looking into that angle too, but I'm wondering if it would be cheaper/easier/better to have something running on Linux at both ends of the connection to handle the audio compression/decompression. Especially since I'm planning to run a Centos server at the destination end for other aspects of this project if we proceed with it.
Can't you find a place that has both radio reception and internet service to park something like shoutcast? Or if you want canned hardware, I think slingbox has an audio-only mode - but maybe that's only in the windows/mac software players.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:15:22 -0500 Les Mikesell wrote:
Can't you find a place that has both radio reception and internet service to park something like shoutcast?
The immediate objective is to get the signal to somewhere that has (reliable) Internet access. The ultimate objective is to stream it online, but we have to get the signal out to where we can do that first. And the closest place that has good service is out-of-range of the signal during the day. (It sounds fine after dark and when the weather is "just so" but that's not much help with a 24-hour stream.)
on 3-25-2009 4:21 PM Frank Cox spake the following:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:15:22 -0500 Les Mikesell wrote:
Can't you find a place that has both radio reception and internet service to park something like shoutcast?
The immediate objective is to get the signal to somewhere that has (reliable) Internet access. The ultimate objective is to stream it online, but we have to get the signal out to where we can do that first. And the closest place that has good service is out-of-range of the signal during the day. (It sounds fine after dark and when the weather is "just so" but that's not much help with a 24-hour stream.)
If the radi station has phone lines, they should be able to get something like a T1 or fractional part. Much more reliable and more bandwidth. Or look into a microwave or satellite link. I don't think you will be able to compress a radio signal enough to fit over a dial line without a lot of loss. You would need several lines multiplexed together for a decent sounding broadcast.
There are many point to point links that will cover 40 miles (65 km). I don't know how far you have to go.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:32:07 -0700 Scott Silva wrote:
If the radi station has phone lines, they should be able to get something like a T1 or fractional part. Much more reliable and more bandwidth.
I don't think it's available there. Even the next-nearest town has only dial-up Internet. The nearest location that has real dedicated Internet service available at all is the location that I'm looking to move the signal out to.
Or look into a microwave or satellite link.
As always, cost is THE factor. I have no idea how much a 24-hour satellite link would cost but I suspect it might be more than a phone line. Based on my (very limited) experience with tv satellite dishes around here, they don't seem to perform very well when it's -50 degrees outside and blowing snow. Some years back I had to go out and try to beat ice off of a dish a few times in those conditions and didn't really enjoy it all that much.
I don't think you will be able to compress a radio signal enough to fit over a dial line without a lot of loss. You would need several lines multiplexed together for a decent sounding broadcast.
Well, that's what I'm looking into. I remember listening to streaming audio over a 14.4 modem way-back-when which wasn't great quality but modems have gotten a lot faster than that since, too. I don't know enough about it (yet) to be aware of exactly what can be accomplished.
There are many point to point links that will cover 40 miles (65 km). I don't know how far you have to go.
That's another thought. The station's antenna is on top of a hill but for protection from the elements and whatnot, the studio is down in a valley (i.e. a hole). They currently use a microwave link to send the signal up the hill from the studio, so I'm not sure how feasible that would be to get a point-to-point solution going, but it's worth looking into. Do you have any recommendations for hardware that might work? I just checked, and Google Maps tells me that the distance is 52.3km.
I've been talking to the station manager for quite a while about doing something to get their signal online, but the stumbling block has always been how to get the signal out where you can get an Internet connection. I just had this dedicated phone line idea last week; if it (or something else) will work, then I'll be able to provide him with a set of costs that he can take to his board of directors, and we'll see what happens after that. The phone company is working on a proposal for me so I'm now trying to get the rest of it figured out.
Frank Cox wrote:
I don't think you will be able to compress a radio signal enough to fit over a dial line without a lot of loss. You would need several lines multiplexed together for a decent sounding broadcast.
Well, that's what I'm looking into. I remember listening to streaming audio over a 14.4 modem way-back-when which wasn't great quality but modems have gotten a lot faster than that since, too. I don't know enough about it (yet) to be aware of exactly what can be accomplished.
They haven't gotten that much faster, really. If you want a modem for a leased line, the (well, probably) only choice is this one:
Mind, the 56K in V92 only are for *one* direction, the upstream is slower (33.6K) - and I have no idea if it is enough to have another one of those on the other side of the line to do v92.
For a stable leased line with modems you are normally doing V34 at 33.6Kbps and that is only a bit more than double of what you have with 14.4Kbps.
Reading your first mail I thought "Hey, get a leased line and run SDSL over that", but your two stations really seem to be too far away from each other to do that.
Can you get ISDN where you are?
Ralph
I would of thought that ISDN would be the perfect solution and if not settle for a standrad POTS line and use one of the folloing;
http://www.glensound.co.uk/GS-MPI004%20Broadcasters%20Mobile%20Phone.htm
http://www.sonifex.co.uk/codecs/index.shtml -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/MU/U dpu s: a--> C++>$ U+> L++> B-> P+> E?> W+++>$ N K W++ O M++>$ V- PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP t 5 X+ R- tv+ b+> DI D+++ G+ e(+++++) h--(++) r++ z++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
on 3-25-2009 5:00 PM Frank Cox spake the following:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:32:07 -0700 Scott Silva wrote:
If the radi station has phone lines, they should be able to get something like a T1 or fractional part. Much more reliable and more bandwidth.
I don't think it's available there. Even the next-nearest town has only dial-up Internet. The nearest location that has real dedicated Internet service available at all is the location that I'm looking to move the signal out to.
Or look into a microwave or satellite link.
As always, cost is THE factor. I have no idea how much a 24-hour satellite link would cost but I suspect it might be more than a phone line. Based on my (very limited) experience with tv satellite dishes around here, they don't seem to perform very well when it's -50 degrees outside and blowing snow. Some years back I had to go out and try to beat ice off of a dish a few times in those conditions and didn't really enjoy it all that much.
I don't think you will be able to compress a radio signal enough to fit over a dial line without a lot of loss. You would need several lines multiplexed together for a decent sounding broadcast.
Well, that's what I'm looking into. I remember listening to streaming audio over a 14.4 modem way-back-when which wasn't great quality but modems have gotten a lot faster than that since, too. I don't know enough about it (yet) to be aware of exactly what can be accomplished.
There are many point to point links that will cover 40 miles (65 km). I don't know how far you have to go.
That's another thought. The station's antenna is on top of a hill but for protection from the elements and whatnot, the studio is down in a valley (i.e. a hole). They currently use a microwave link to send the signal up the hill from the studio, so I'm not sure how feasible that would be to get a point-to-point solution going, but it's worth looking into. Do you have any recommendations for hardware that might work? I just checked, and Google Maps tells me that the distance is 52.3km.
If the station is in a hole, you would need to pipe the signal through relays, possibly up to the antenna site and then on to the next point. Motorola makes some long range PTP radios that reach as far as 124 miles (200km), as does Proxim (not sure of their maximum range). Motorola is the leader in this area, and they are worldwide. This site has some options; http://www.winncom.com/products/category/WPP/list.html
If they already have a microwave link to the antenna site, it shouldn't be that hard to repeat that signal to another site. They could put a microwave repeater at the antenna site and move the receiver that is now there to the third site.
I've been talking to the station manager for quite a while about doing something to get their signal online, but the stumbling block has always been how to get the signal out where you can get an Internet connection. I just had this dedicated phone line idea last week; if it (or something else) will work, then I'll be able to provide him with a set of costs that he can take to his board of directors, and we'll see what happens after that. The phone company is working on a proposal for me so I'm now trying to get the rest of it figured out.
A pure digital 56k link should be just as easy as a modem link if the wiring is sound. If the wire is marginal, even a modem won't keep a full 56K link going. Besides, most modems don't do 56K from modem to modem unless they are synchronous. 56k dialup from modem to modem usually doesn't go over 33.6k. You only get the 56k if there is only one analog to digital conversion, which you would only get by dialing into a T1 concentrator at the ISP. I suppose you could do something over a plain 4 wire link from site to site. There used to be modems that ran over those years ago, and maybe they are still available. You would need a leased 2pair wire run from one point to the other.
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:23:31 -0700 Scott Silva wrote:
If they already have a microwave link to the antenna site, it shouldn't be that hard to repeat that signal to another site. They could put a microwave repeater at the antenna site and move the receiver that is now there to the third site.
Thanks loads to everyone who's offered advice regarding this matter so far.
I have now started exploring the feasibility and cost of VHF and microwave solutions to this situation as well. It appears that anything that we do will involve hardware costs, but if we can do it this way then the phone company won't be collecting a monthly fee forevermore, and that's got to add up to a saving down the line.
I definitely know more about this stuff now and have more options to look at than I did a couple of days ago, thanks largely to the help of everyone here on this mailing list.
on 3-26-2009 11:19 AM Frank Cox spake the following:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:23:31 -0700 Scott Silva wrote:
If they already have a microwave link to the antenna site, it shouldn't be that hard to repeat that signal to another site. They could put a microwave repeater at the antenna site and move the receiver that is now there to the third site.
Thanks loads to everyone who's offered advice regarding this matter so far.
I have now started exploring the feasibility and cost of VHF and microwave solutions to this situation as well. It appears that anything that we do will involve hardware costs, but if we can do it this way then the phone company won't be collecting a monthly fee forevermore, and that's got to add up to a saving down the line.
Especially if they would charge you by the minute for a dialup link. Even a penny or two a minute adds up in a month. ($4320 a month at 0.01 per minute)
I definitely know more about this stuff now and have more options to look at than I did a couple of days ago, thanks largely to the help of everyone here on this mailing list.
2009/3/25 Scott Silva ssilva@sgvwater.com:
on 3-25-2009 4:21 PM Frank Cox spake the following:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:15:22 -0500 Les Mikesell wrote:
Can't you find a place that has both radio reception and internet service to park something like shoutcast?
The immediate objective is to get the signal to somewhere that has (reliable) Internet access. The ultimate objective is to stream it online, but we have to get the signal out to where we can do that first. And the closest place that has good service is out-of-range of the signal during the day. (It sounds fine after dark and when the weather is "just so" but that's not much help with a 24-hour stream.)
If the radi station has phone lines, they should be able to get something like a T1 or fractional part. Much more reliable and more bandwidth. Or look into a microwave or satellite link. I don't think you will be able to compress a radio signal enough to fit over a dial line without a lot of loss. You would need several lines multiplexed together for a decent sounding broadcast.
There are many point to point links that will cover 40 miles (65 km). I don't know how far you have to go.
The key problem is the lack of Internet access at the radio station. If you can get that, then you can use http://www.streamaudio.com/site/services.aspx (we listen to stations in San Antonio, TX and Wasilla, AK) or another streaming service. Excellent audio quality on our end! Here's what they show for the connectivity requirement:
"A Dedicated Internet Connection: Whether you use Cable, DSL, ADSL, ISDN, T-1 or frame relay, you should also have a dedicated internet connection and public routable IP to achieve the basic requirements for streaming your radio station on the World Wide Web. We will be pulling a primary and secondary stream so you will need a minimum of double the dedicated available bandwidth for the quality of stream you have selected. (Example: for a 32k stream, you will need at least 64k of bandwidth)
Frank Cox wrote:
I'm looking into costs and feasibility of moving a live feed from a FM radio station from the station to a point that's past the usable range of their radio signal. It's a rural location and Internet service is not available at the station. If the destination was closer or their transmitter was more powerful, I could avoid this step and just plug in a radio, but....
FM quality radio remotes are usually done with ISDN lines and hardware encoder boxes like aTelos Zephyr.. otherwise, its juts a voice dialup line, analog lowfi voice.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:14:13 -0700 John R Pierce wrote:
FM quality radio remotes are usually done with ISDN lines and hardware encoder boxes like aTelos Zephyr.. otherwise, its juts a voice dialup line, analog lowfi voice.
Interesting. I see that this one:
http://www.telos-systems.com/xport/default.htm
works with POTS. I shall follow this up further.
Thanks!
On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 18:31 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:14:13 -0700 John R Pierce wrote:
FM quality radio remotes are usually done with ISDN lines and hardware encoder boxes like aTelos Zephyr.. otherwise, its juts a voice dialup line, analog lowfi voice.
Interesting. I see that this one:
http://www.telos-systems.com/xport/default.htm
works with POTS. I shall follow this up further.
----
John is correct in what he said. Back in the day the FAA and the Military Demodulated the RF Signal and sent it over a plain POTS line. This is still to this day how FAA radar is run and transmited from airport to the next tower. You may want to check out Times Microwave Inc. for hardware. The demodulator for the RF could be anything from a DSP IF Frontend to Software based. But now now be warned and don't get all to happy,,,There will be a delay in RF Tranmission
JohnStanley
Frank Cox wrote:
I'm looking into costs and feasibility of moving a live feed from a FM radio station from the station to a point that's past the usable range of their radio signal. It's a rural location and Internet service is not available at the station. If the destination was closer or their transmitter was more powerful, I could avoid this step and just plug in a radio, but....
Might want to consider the one-time cost of a nice directional antenna pointed at your radio station on a tower (possibly an already-existing one - cell phone or other radio/communications) at a location with internet access, versus the yearly cost of other alternatives suggested. If there are no mountains in the way 52.3km is not a long way for a radio signal to travel. The engineer who maintains the station should be able to help, or find a local ham radio operator who is knowledgeable about antennas and propagation to do the link calculations and determine antenna gain requirements for you before investing in such an approach.
Phil
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Frank Cox theatre@sasktel.net wrote:
I'm looking into costs and feasibility of moving a live feed from a FM radio station from the station to a point that's past the usable range of their radio signal. It's a rural location and Internet service is not available at the station. If the destination was closer or their transmitter was more powerful,
<snip> Any possibility they might move the Studio to a place where Internet access is available? To do Streaming, I don't think the stations actually need a Transmitter, because a few of the stations using the StreamAudio.com service are listed as "IR" which I assume stands for "Internet Radio". The Classical music genre lists 2 "IR" stations: http://www.streamaudio.com/site/Stations.aspx?format=16
The other thing, if it is Line of Sight, as suggested by previous posters, is a VHF radio link.
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
The other thing, if it is Line of Sight, as suggested by previous posters, is a VHF radio link.
----
I would not bet my load on line of sight! I have seen days where VHF (tropo)will travel 3500 miles and days where it would not get to my neighbors house! Add that into the equation. Just keep in mind TV stations ( analog/digital) transmit Kilowatts to just get 75 mile coverage.
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable. Stick with a Land Line. RF is the most unpredictable form of AC current there is in the world. You never know what it is going to do. The atmosphere predicts it's fate.
JohnStanley
yes
i would explore & consider moving the offices too, especially if you can do what you want with a dedicated conditioned business line from old office to new office and then send out on a reliable lower cost internet link.
maybe good pots if you have to.
like you said, it all depends on the costs
if it fails, which should be rare, you can always drive to the old office space and go live there.
yet do explore the dedicated radios from the office to the tower to the remote end too...
maybe you could make some extra money as a business WISP.
:-)
- rh
JohnS wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
The other thing, if it is Line of Sight, as suggested by previous posters, is a VHF radio link.
I would not bet my load on line of sight! I have seen days where VHF (tropo)will travel 3500 miles and days where it would not get to my neighbors house! Add that into the equation. Just keep in mind TV stations ( analog/digital) transmit Kilowatts to just get 75 mile coverage.
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable. Stick with a Land Line. RF is the most unpredictable form of AC current there is in the world. You never know what it is going to do. The atmosphere predicts it's fate.
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
JohnS wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
The other thing, if it is Line of Sight, as suggested by previous posters, is a VHF radio link.
I would not bet my load on line of sight! I have seen days where VHF (tropo)will travel 3500 miles and days where it would not get to my neighbors house! Add that into the equation. Just keep in mind TV stations ( analog/digital) transmit Kilowatts to just get 75 mile coverage.
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable. Stick with a Land Line. RF is the most unpredictable form of AC current there is in the world. You never know what it is going to do. The atmosphere predicts it's fate.
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
WiMax is available in Cali (one of the first cities in the world to get it), but not in our town. We live about 15 minutes from Cali. Not sure what distance WiMax can span, but my best friend had a WiMax seminar in his company, a year or so ago, so I will ask him. I would love to have WiMax!
Les Mikesell wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
John R Pierce wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
http://www.wirelessantwerpen.be/28052003.htm http://www.wirelessantwerpen.be/102km-link.htm
these pages are in dutch but maybe you can contact these guy's to see if they can help with your problem. they sucessfully made a 42KM wifi link and are going to try a 102KM link with standard wifi gear and grid antenna's
info@wirelessantwerpen.be
In the unlikely case they don't speak english i can translate for you
On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 22:34 +0200, Michel Daggelinckx wrote:
John R Pierce wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
these pages are in dutch but maybe you can contact these guy's to see if they can help with your problem. they sucessfully made a 42KM wifi link and are going to try a 102KM link with standard wifi gear and grid antenna's
info@wirelessantwerpen.be
In the unlikely case they don't speak english i can translate for you
---
For what that guy will spend in that, that is just crazy. But still a good idea non the less. Here's the solution...
Two - Way Satellite Up and Down. There will be at least a half a second delay. The OP will be able to stream the FM signal to the Web his self with his own server. He can take a direct AF[1]output to a sound card input into the server from the FM transmitter. If the OP runs the station he will know what an AF[1] output is and will need an attenuator between the two. There are a many Linux Apps that can pickup an AF[1]audio output into a sound card.
The only drawback to this is the Sat Connection cost fee per month. Being this is on a "indian reservation" I would seriously look into government grants for this if I were the Project Manager (technology grants). The only company I really know is Motorola that can provide a hardware solution for this type of solution.
1- [AF] audio frequency
JohnStanley
JohnS wrote:
On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 22:34 +0200, Michel Daggelinckx wrote:
John R Pierce wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
these pages are in dutch but maybe you can contact these guy's to see if they can help with your problem. they sucessfully made a 42KM wifi link and are going to try a 102KM link with standard wifi gear and grid antenna's
info@wirelessantwerpen.be
In the unlikely case they don't speak english i can translate for you
For what that guy will spend in that, that is just crazy. But still a good idea non the less. Here's the solution...
Two - Way Satellite Up and Down. There will be at least a half a second delay. The OP will be able to stream the FM signal to the Web his self with his own server. He can take a direct AF[1]output to a sound card input into the server from the FM transmitter. If the OP runs the station he will know what an AF[1] output is and will need an attenuator between the two. There are a many Linux Apps that can pickup an AF[1]audio output into a sound card.
The only drawback to this is the Sat Connection cost fee per month. Being this is on a "indian reservation" I would seriously look into government grants for this if I were the Project Manager (technology grants). The only company I really know is Motorola that can provide a hardware solution for this type of solution.
1- [AF] audio frequency
There are some satellite internet providers that might work too, but the consumer-priced versions like Starband and Wildblue have usage caps on their normal plans so you'd have to work something out.
-- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com
Les Mikesell wrote:
There are some satellite internet providers that might work too, but the consumer-priced versions like Starband and Wildblue have usage caps on their normal plans so you'd have to work something out.
and they ALL have very slow uplink speeds until you get into very expensive.
John R Pierce wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
There are some satellite internet providers that might work too, but the consumer-priced versions like Starband and Wildblue have usage caps on their normal plans so you'd have to work something out.
and they ALL have very slow uplink speeds until you get into very expensive.
They claim 128/256k uplink - but I don't know what you can actually sustain. Lots of internet stations stream at 28 or 56k - and you'd want to send a single stream to some well-connected place to fan out the connections.
on 3-30-2009 1:14 PM John R Pierce spake the following:
Les Mikesell wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
Being on an American Indian reservation, I would see if some government grant money can be acquired from the U.S Dept of the Interior through the BIA. Depending on the transmitted content, they might help or fund equipment completely.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
The OP is in Saskatchewan, Canada. Hopefully, as a later poster suggested, the Canadian government has some $ available, to contribute for this project. I believe the distance is much too far for WiMax, even if it were line of sight, which is not the case here.
Lanny Marcus wrote:
It sounds like this location is just begging for wimax or some other suitable internet service. What kind of place can support a radio station but not an internet presence these days?
the original poster indicated the FM station was on an American Indian reservation in a very remote canyon, and the ONLY phone lines available were 2 pairs of LONG haul copper POTS lines, one currently used by the stations telephone service, the other available for modem use. They are using a microwave link to get from the station to the hilltop transmitter, but that the nearest 'real' town with a telephone CO that would support any sort of real internet service is way too far away for FM reception, even with a directional yagi.
The OP is in Saskatchewan, Canada. Hopefully, as a later poster suggested, the Canadian government has some $ available, to contribute for this project. I believe the distance is much too far for WiMax, even if it were line of sight, which is not the case here.
If the station generates any unique content that would still be interesting a day or two later (i.e. not just another DJ talking over the same music everyone else plays), perhaps they could package recorded shows as podcasts and ship them on CD/DVD/flash card to a location where they could be uploaded to a server. I almost never listen to radio or even real time streaming anymore because it is so much easier to fit podcasts into your schedule.
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:28:30 -0500 Lanny Marcus wrote:
The OP is in Saskatchewan, Canada. Hopefully, as a later poster suggested, the Canadian government has some $ available, to contribute for this project. I believe the distance is much too far for WiMax, even if it were line of sight, which is not the case here.
I suspect that INAC may be approached regarding this once the project has been figured out and costed.
However, "Not my department".
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Frank Cox theatre@sasktel.net wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:28:30 -0500 Lanny Marcus wrote:
The OP is in Saskatchewan, Canada. Hopefully, as a later poster suggested, the Canadian government has some $ available, to contribute for this project. I believe the distance is much too far for WiMax, even if it were line of sight, which is not the case here.
I suspect that INAC may be approached regarding this once the project has been figured out and costed.
However, "Not my department".
However, a very interesting idea! Maybe they can provide funding for the project, or a part of the funding. :-)
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, JohnS jses27@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
The other thing, if it is Line of Sight, as suggested by previous posters, is a VHF radio link.
I would not bet my load on line of sight! I have seen days where VHF (tropo)will travel 3500 miles and days where it would not get to my neighbors house! Add that into the equation. Just keep in mind TV stations ( analog/digital) transmit Kilowatts to just get 75 mile coverage.
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable. Stick with a Land Line. RF is the most unpredictable form of AC current there is in the world. You never know what it is going to do. The atmosphere predicts it's fate.
I have to agree with John Stanley's comments on this, because of the distance. Depends on the frequency, terrain, etc., but the distance is long, for 100% reliability.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:23 AM, JohnS jses27@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable.
What's wrong with me ??? :-P
Akemi YAGI
On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 11:54 -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:23 AM, JohnS jses27@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable.
What's wrong with me ??? :-P
Akemi YAGI
----- How many Elements and what kind of Stack Array are you? :-)
JohnStanley
on 3-30-2009 11:54 AM Akemi Yagi spake the following:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:23 AM, JohnS jses27-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 08:54 -0500, Lanny Marcus wrote:
Now, what about a long element yagi? Good, but not dependable.
What's wrong with me ??? :-P
Akemi YAGI
Now your just bragging! I guess with a long element, you would be too busy to do anything else! ;-P
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Akemi Yagi -
Frank Cox -
James Bensley -
John R Pierce -
JohnS -
Lanny Marcus -
Les Mikesell -
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RobertH -
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