How many of you have tried out the KBS CentOS Fedora Extras rebuilds? In my case i enabled his misc and extras repo on a test machine and
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list files. - It also installed a very new version of wine, wine-devel and wine-tools that broke my wine apps. the centOS rpms from winehq work like champs. The winetools 0.9.3 rpm as linked from the winehq website is the real thing that can install IE, rather than the cheap fedora imitation.
Is anyone else experiencing difficulties with the KBS repo?
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On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 16:49 -0800, Jim Smith wrote:
How many of you have tried out the KBS CentOS Fedora Extras rebuilds? In my case i enabled his misc and extras repo on a test machine and
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list
files.
- It also installed a very new version of wine, wine-devel and
wine-tools that broke my wine apps. the centOS rpms from winehq work like champs. The winetools 0.9.3 rpm as linked from the winehq website is the real thing that can install IE, rather than the cheap fedora imitation.
ermmm ... it is a REBUILD of fedora extras ... what do you expect? Gentoo packges?
Is anyone else experiencing difficulties with the KBS repo?
--- Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
ermmm ... it is a REBUILD of fedora extras ... what do you expect? Gentoo packges?
No I did not expect Gentoo packages, I expected Debian sid packages.
On a serious note if i wanted broken packages, all i had to do was to :-
- install fedora rawhide - enable ATRPMS
What's the purpose of blindly following ALL fedora rebuilds? What will happen when the FC5 rebuilds are churned out? Even more broken-ness?
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On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 05:23:41PM -0800, Jim Smith wrote:
--- Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
ermmm ... it is a REBUILD of fedora extras ... what do you expect? Gentoo packges?
No I did not expect Gentoo packages, I expected Debian sid packages.
On a serious note if i wanted broken packages, all i had to do was to :-
- install fedora rawhide
- enable ATRPMS
What's the purpose of blindly following ALL fedora rebuilds? What will happen when the FC5 rebuilds are churned out? Even more broken-ness?
Jim, I have been using Karanbir packages with great success for months. This is an extra work he does on his own time, and it not officially related to CentOS.
If you don't like his work (and trust me, you are the first bad feedback I see), feel free to start your own repository.
- -- Rodrigo Barbosa rodrigob@suespammers.org "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 17:23 -0800, Jim Smith wrote:
--- Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
ermmm ... it is a REBUILD of fedora extras ... what do you expect? Gentoo packges?
No I did not expect Gentoo packages, I expected Debian sid packages.
On a serious note if i wanted broken packages, all i had to do was to :-
- install fedora rawhide
- enable ATRPMS
What's the purpose of blindly following ALL fedora rebuilds? What will happen when the FC5 rebuilds are churned out? Even more broken-ness?
----- For the record, I think ATRPMS is a tremendous resource and your attempt a humor didn't need to take a back handed slap at someone who gives a tremendous amount of time and energy to providing a repository for bleeding edge sounds and graphics applications. Without ATRPMS, it would be incredibly difficult to built a mythtv system on Fedora or CentOS.
Craig
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 18:43 -0700, Craig White wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 17:23 -0800, Jim Smith wrote:
--- Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
ermmm ... it is a REBUILD of fedora extras ... what do you expect? Gentoo packges?
No I did not expect Gentoo packages, I expected Debian sid packages.
On a serious note if i wanted broken packages, all i had to do was to :-
- install fedora rawhide
- enable ATRPMS
Or
- install CentOS4 - enable atrpms and rpmforge and/or kbs
What's the purpose of blindly following ALL fedora rebuilds? What will happen when the FC5 rebuilds are churned out? Even more broken-ness?
For the record, I think ATRPMS is a tremendous resource and your attempt a humor didn't need to take a back handed slap at someone who gives a tremendous amount of time and energy to providing a repository for bleeding edge sounds and graphics applications. Without ATRPMS, it would be incredibly difficult to built a mythtv system on Fedora or CentOS.
ATrpms is useful for things like MythTV; however Axel Thimm's packages do not mix well with other repos like Karanbir's or RPMforge. Have been fighting breakages of yum, yumex, smartpm, and associated config files on a couple of systems on which I have had mythtv or other multimedia stuff working, and made the mistake of enabling atrpms and running "yum update". Had to manually downgrade some packages to get things working at all and yum is still complaining that it can't find sqlite.
Things may well work if you use ATrpms repo alone on top of a "vanilla" system, and I have managed to get things to work by picking selected packages and dependencies for mythtv, transcode, etc. from ATrpms with smart (against Axel's recommendation to use all or none of his packages), but from repeated painful experiences, would recommend against wholesale mixing with Dag's, Dries', or Karanbir's repos (which generally do mix well together).
Phil
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 13:32 -0500, Phil Schaffner wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 18:43 -0700, Craig White wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 17:23 -0800, Jim Smith wrote:
--- Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
ermmm ... it is a REBUILD of fedora extras ... what do you expect? Gentoo packges?
No I did not expect Gentoo packages, I expected Debian sid packages.
On a serious note if i wanted broken packages, all i had to do was to :-
- install fedora rawhide
- enable ATRPMS
Or
- install CentOS4
- enable atrpms and rpmforge and/or kbs
What's the purpose of blindly following ALL fedora rebuilds? What will happen when the FC5 rebuilds are churned out? Even more broken-ness?
For the record, I think ATRPMS is a tremendous resource and your attempt a humor didn't need to take a back handed slap at someone who gives a tremendous amount of time and energy to providing a repository for bleeding edge sounds and graphics applications. Without ATRPMS, it would be incredibly difficult to built a mythtv system on Fedora or CentOS.
ATrpms is useful for things like MythTV; however Axel Thimm's packages do not mix well with other repos like Karanbir's or RPMforge. Have been fighting breakages of yum, yumex, smartpm, and associated config files on a couple of systems on which I have had mythtv or other multimedia stuff working, and made the mistake of enabling atrpms and running "yum update". Had to manually downgrade some packages to get things working at all and yum is still complaining that it can't find sqlite.
Things may well work if you use ATrpms repo alone on top of a "vanilla" system, and I have managed to get things to work by picking selected packages and dependencies for mythtv, transcode, etc. from ATrpms with smart (against Axel's recommendation to use all or none of his packages), but from repeated painful experiences, would recommend against wholesale mixing with Dag's, Dries', or Karanbir's repos (which generally do mix well together).
Phil
Good info Phil, thanks
One thing I want to make clear here [this is for the list and not just Phil :)] is that I would not run a "yum update" with any 3rd party repo enabled ... ever.
Dag does a great job with his repo (I use parts of it on almost every single machine I install), as does Karanbir, Dries and Axel.
However ... every single one of these repos (or any other 3rd party repo, for that matter) has the potential to break your install.
There are things available to prevent this breakage ...
1. Use the yum config variable for repos named "includepkgs=". This variable will only use certain packages from a repo ... so if you have 5 packages installed from Dag's repo, when you run an update it will only look at those five packages. This goes in the repo section (where baseurl= or mirrorlist= is).
2. Use the yum config variable for repos names "exclude=". This will prevent looking for updates for the packages listed. This can be a repo option ... or in the main yum.conf file. When used in repos, it excludes that package from that repo .. when used in the main yum.conf file it excludes updating that package at all.
3. Use the plugin from the extras repo named yum-plugin-protectbase.
This plugin allows you to protect certain repos (like [os] and [updates]) so that no updates can happen to packages from these repos except from other protected repos.
----- All of these things will prevent getting unwanted updates to core packages.
Again ... I am not saying that any of the repos are bad, people just need to take responsibility for their yum setups.
A repo has to be self sufficient (meaning it has to be able to meet all it's own dependencies) ... that will cause some package overlap between repos ... AND overlap between repos can cause unwanted affects.
Thanks to all the 3rd party repo maintainers ... they all do a great service. We just need to use these resources a little more wisely.
Last time I ran yum ... it told me every single package it was going to update and I had the opportunity to say yes or no :)
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006, Johnny Hughes wrote:
One thing I want to make clear here [this is for the list and not just Phil :)] is that I would not run a "yum update" with any 3rd party repo enabled ... ever.
Dag does a great job with his repo (I use parts of it on almost every single machine I install), as does Karanbir, Dries and Axel.
However ... every single one of these repos (or any other 3rd party repo, for that matter) has the potential to break your install.
I have stated many times that for production usage I would not recommend to enable my repo by default and automatically install updates. Even though everything runs fine and has been tested by yourself at one point in time, updates might break. And if your business relies on this, I wouldn't want to be responsible for any breakage.
Even when we would do extensive testing, it is hard (read: impossible) to test every combination of features of every given program or combinations of programs. Things change and every change is a liability. That's the difference between eg. a RHEL4 rsync (which is never updated, only fixed) and an RPMforge rsync (always the latest).
If you require stability and newer features in RPMforge packages a combination of pinning RPMforge packages and a default policy of not overriding official packages is extremely recommended. (See Johnny's mail for the details on how to achieve this)
And if this isn't a FAQ yet, we should make one to point to it :)
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
On Fri, 2006-03-10 at 12:43 +0100, Dag Wieers wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006, Johnny Hughes wrote:
One thing I want to make clear here [this is for the list and not just Phil :)] is that I would not run a "yum update" with any 3rd party repo enabled ... ever.
Agree for a production machine, but on my home mixed MythTV client/server systems that were already somewhat broken by mixing assorted repo packages by the methods you described so well, I thought it was worth a shot. The exercise I just went through doing a fresh install on one system and falling back to a backup on the other to clean up the mess, after wasting a few hours trying to manually upgrade/downgrade packages to get yum/yumex/smart working again, certainly illustrates your points.
[Somewhat OT: If ATrpms packages weren't such a PITA to rebuild due to unreleased rpm macros, I'd have a go at doing a CentOS rebuild of MythTV and deps from SRPMS. Anybody got any sage advice to offer on that front?]
Dag does a great job with his repo (I use parts of it on almost every single machine I install), as does Karanbir, Dries and Axel.
However ... every single one of these repos (or any other 3rd party repo, for that matter) has the potential to break your install.
I have stated many times that for production usage I would not recommend to enable my repo by default and automatically install updates. Even though everything runs fine and has been tested by yourself at one point in time, updates might break. And if your business relies on this, I wouldn't want to be responsible for any breakage.
The old rule applies: If you [user - not packager] break it you get to keep all the pieces!
:-)
Even when we would do extensive testing, it is hard (read: impossible) to test every combination of features of every given program or combinations of programs. Things change and every change is a liability. That's the difference between eg. a RHEL4 rsync (which is never updated, only fixed) and an RPMforge rsync (always the latest).
If you require stability and newer features in RPMforge packages a combination of pinning RPMforge packages and a default policy of not overriding official packages is extremely recommended. (See Johnny's mail for the details on how to achieve this)
And if this isn't a FAQ yet, we should make one to point to it :)
Sounds like a great start for a new CentOS FAQ entry on using add-on repos.
Phil
On 3/10/06, Phil Schaffner Philip.R.Schaffner@nasa.gov wrote:
[Somewhat OT: If ATrpms packages weren't such a PITA to rebuild due to unreleased rpm macros, I'd have a go at doing a CentOS rebuild of MythTV and deps from SRPMS. Anybody got any sage advice to offer on that front?]
FWIW I'll paste my .rpmmacros file at the end of this mail. I'm pretty sure I had it building mythtv srpms from ATrpms quite a while ago. I do remember it took a hell of a lot of digging to put this together. However please dont be too surprised if this is no good, for the last few months I've been able to use mythtv from the ATrpms repo without needing to rebuild.
Cheers,
Tony
.rpmmacros follows:
%_topdir /home/tony/rpmbuild
#--------------------------------------------------------------------- %distversion %(rpm -qf --qf='%{VERSION}' /etc/redhat-release) %distinitials rh%(grep -i fedora /etc/redhat-release >/dev/null && echo "fc") %distname %(grep -i fedora /etc/redhat-release >/dev/null && echo "Fedora Core" || echo "Red Hat Linux") %disttag %{distinitials}%{distversion} %disttag2 %(echo %disttag | sed -e's,\.,_,g') %atrelease() %1.%{disttag}.at
%eversion %{?epoch:%{epoch}:}%{version} %evr %{?epoch:%{epoch}:}%{version}-%{release}
################################################################ %_initdir %{_sysconfdir}/rc.d/init.d %_varlibdir %{_localstatedir}/lib %_varcachedir %{_localstatedir}/cache %_logdir %{_localstatedir}/log %_rundir %{_localstatedir}/run %_subsysdir %{_localstatedir}/lock/subsys %_sysconfigdir %{_sysconfdir}/sysconfig %_logrotatedir %{_sysconfdir}/logrotate.d
### ################################################################ kernel # Use in specfiles: # %kernelmodule foo # %kerneldesc # %{_kernel} in depmod, %kaddcustomkernel # %kmdl_name # %if %{kmain} # %kernelconfig, %kreqprov # %kmdlinstall # %kernelname
# kflavour access only in lirc, deprecated
%_kernel %(uname -r) %kmdl_kernelsrcdir /lib/modules/%{_kernel}/build %kmdl_userland %(test "%{_kernel}" = none && echo 1 || echo 0) %_kflavour %(echo %{_kernel} | grep -E '(smp|enterprise|bigmem)' | sed -e's/^.*\(smp\|enterprise\|bigmem\).*$/\1/') %_kversion %(echo %{_kernel} | sed -e's/^\(.*\)\(smp\|enterprise\| bigmem\).*$/\1/') %_krelver %(echo %{_kversion} | sed -e's/-/_/') %_kname %(echo kernel-%{_kflavour} | sed -e's/-$//') %_kname2 %(echo kmodule-%{_kflavour} | sed -e's/-$//') %_kname3 %(echo kmdl-%{_kflavour} | sed -e's/-$//') %_modflags -include /tmp/atrpms-mykernel-%{_kernel}-%{_target_cpu}.h -DMODULE -DMODVERSIONS -include %{_kernelsrcdir}/include/linux/modversions.h
# "kernel": the output of "uname -r" of the kernel to build for # (default: the running one) # "_kernelsrcdir": The directory of the sources used to build "kernel" # (default: /lib/modules/%{_kernel}/build)
%kmdl_name kernel-module-%{_kpkgname}-%{_kernel} %kmdl_nameof() kernel-module-%1-%{_kernel} %kmdl_namepure kernel-module-%{_kpkgname} %kmdl_namepureof() kernel-module-%1 #_kmdl_name_old %{_kpkgname}-kmdl-%{_kernel} #_kmdl_nameof_old() %1-kmdl-%{_kernel} #_kmdl_name_old %{_kpkgname}-%{_kname3}-%{_kversion} #_kmdl_nameof_old() %1-%{_kname3}-%{_kversion} #_kmdl_namepure_old %{_kpkgname}-kmdl #_kmdl_namepureof_old() %1-kmdl
%_kernelbuildreq %{nil}
%kmdl() \ %{expand:%%global _kpkgname %1} \ %_kernelbuildreq \ %{nil}
%kmdl_parentdependencies\ Requires: %{kmdl_namepure}-%{evr}
%kmdl_dependencies\ Requires: atrpms-kmdl-helper \ #Requires: strictdep-%{_kname}-%{_target_cpu} = %{_kversion}\ Requires: /boot/vmlinuz-%{_kernel}\ Requires: %{_kname} = %{_kversion}, /sbin/depmod, modutils >= 2.4.14\ BuildRequires: %_kernelcompiler\ Provides: %kmdl_namepure-%{evr}\ Provides: %kmdl_namepure-%_kernel = %{evr}\ #\ # backward compatibility foo-kmdl\ Provides: Provides: %{_kpkgname}-%{_kname3}-%{_kversion} = %{evr} Provides: %{_kpkgname}-kmdl # backward compatibility with foo-kernel-...\ Provides: %{_kpkgname}-kernel\ %{?_kflavour:Provides: %{_kpkgname}-%{_kname}}\ Provides: %{_kpkgname}-%{_kname}-%{_kversion} = %{evr}\ Provides: %{_kpkgname}-%{_kname}-%{_kversion}-%{_target_cpu} = %{evr}\ # backward compatibility with unversioned kernel-module-foo\ Provides: kernel-module-%{_kpkgname}\ %{?_kflavour:Provides: %{_kname}-module-%{_kpkgname}}\
%_kernelcompiler_rhfc2 /usr/bin/gcc %_kernelcompiler_rhfc1 /usr/bin/gcc32 %_kernelcompiler_rh9 /usr/bin/gcc %_kernelcompiler_rh8_0 /usr/bin/gcc %_kernelcompiler_rh7_3 /usr/bin/gcc
%_kernelcompiler %{expand:%%_kernelcompiler_%{disttag2}}
%kmdl_moduledir /lib/modules/%{_kernel}/updates
%kmdl_config\ export CC=%_kernelcompiler\ #/sbin/mkkerneldoth.atrpms %{_kernel} %{_target_cpu}
/tmp/atrpms-mykernel-%{_kernel}-%{_target_cpu}.h\
#mkdir -p %{buildroot}%{kmdl_moduledir}
%kmdl_desc\ This package contains the %kmdl_name kernel modules for the Linux kernel package:\ %{_kname}-%{_kversion}.%{_target_cpu}.rpm.
%_kernelname %{_kname}-%{_kversion}.%{_target_cpu}.rpm
%kmdl_install\ %{_libdir}/atrpms/addcustomkmdl '/lib/modules/`uname -r`/updates'\ depmod -ae -F /boot/System.map-%{_kernel} %{_kernel}
%kmdl_remove\ depmod -ae -F /boot/System.map-%{_kernel} %{_kernel}
#---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Smith wrote:
How many of you have tried out the KBS CentOS Fedora Extras rebuilds?
going by the logs, it seems about 46 thousand ( give or take a few hundred ) people have used it ....
In my case i enabled his misc and extras repo on a test machine and
the misc repo, as clearly indicated, isnt a fedoras rebuild.
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list
files.
Who is this "it" you refer to ? the repository will not push apps down your way. Also, since were talking about it - apt is deprecated and users are actively encouraged to move to either yum or smartpm.
- It also installed a very new version of wine, wine-devel and
wine-tools that broke my wine apps. the centOS rpms from winehq work like champs. The winetools 0.9.3 rpm as linked from the winehq website is the real thing that can install IE, rather than the cheap fedora imitation.
There is no way i can predict all the ways that users out there are going to install their apps and setup from various sources. yum provides the mechanism to lock pkgs to repo's, use it.
Is anyone else experiencing difficulties with the KBS repo?
in this case, the difficulties you have are self induced. if you have any real valid issues, point them out and I'll work on fixing them.
- KB
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Jim Smith wrote:
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list
files.
Who is this "it" you refer to ? the repository will not push apps down your way. Also, since were talking about it - apt is deprecated and users are actively encouraged to move to either yum or smartpm.
I don't know why it would do that though. My most recent apt package does not include a configuration for my repo. One should install the rpmforge-release package to have that. So why would another apt package remove my configuration ?
As a side-note, I'm happy to include whatever package that drove you (Jim) to Fedora Extras (rebuild) in the first place. And if you'd like to maintain it, more karma to you :-)
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
Dag Wieers wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Jim Smith wrote:
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list
files.
Who is this "it" you refer to ? the repository will not push apps down your way. Also, since were talking about it - apt is deprecated and users are actively encouraged to move to either yum or smartpm.
I don't know why it would do that though. My most recent apt package does not include a configuration for my repo. One should install the rpmforge-release package to have that. So why would another apt package remove my configuration ?
As a side-note, I'm happy to include whatever package that drove you (Jim) to Fedora Extras (rebuild) in the first place. And if you'd like to maintain it, more karma to you :-)
dag, I've done some work on how to ensure rpmforge.net rpms and the ones from centos.karan.org can work together - even if we want to merge in stuff onto one side, that might be an option I am happy to take and maintain the specs. But at the moment 4.3 needs working on, once that is done and released, we can revisit the situation.
however, no matter who is maintaining the packages and where - the situation that he ( jim ) had will still come up.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Dag Wieers wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Jim Smith wrote:
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list
files.
Who is this "it" you refer to ? the repository will not push apps down your way. Also, since were talking about it - apt is deprecated and users are actively encouraged to move to either yum or smartpm.
I don't know why it would do that though. My most recent apt package does not include a configuration for my repo. One should install the rpmforge-release package to have that. So why would another apt package remove my configuration ?
As a side-note, I'm happy to include whatever package that drove you (Jim) to Fedora Extras (rebuild) in the first place. And if you'd like to maintain it, more karma to you :-)
dag, I've done some work on how to ensure rpmforge.net rpms and the ones from centos.karan.org can work together - even if we want to merge in stuff onto one side, that might be an option I am happy to take and maintain the specs. But at the moment 4.3 needs working on, once that is done and released, we can revisit the situation.
Sure. Take your time :)
however, no matter who is maintaining the packages and where - the situation that he ( jim ) had will still come up.
:)
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
Jim Smith wrote:
How many of you have tried out the KBS CentOS Fedora Extras rebuilds? In my case i enabled his misc and extras repo on a test machine and
- it proceeded to install apt that nuked the dag and centos list
files.
- It also installed a very new version of wine, wine-devel and
wine-tools that broke my wine apps. the centOS rpms from winehq work like champs. The winetools 0.9.3 rpm as linked from the winehq website is the real thing that can install IE, rather than the cheap fedora imitation.
I'd suggest you report these problems/concerns to the maintainer of the repo in question.
-- Rex
-
Craig White -
Dag Wieers -
Jim Smith -
Johnny Hughes -
Karanbir Singh -
Phil Schaffner -
Rex Dieter -
Rodrigo Barbosa -
Tony