The CentOS Project seems to be having a problem within some of our community interactive areas that we need to address.
As most of you know, the project provides CentOS software free of charge and we also provide community areas like a Wiki, Mailing Lists, IRC Channels and Fora for our users to interact with one another and allow the CentOS community to provide support for each other.
There are some companies out there that provide paid CentOS support, but for the most part our users utilize community areas to get support for CentOS.
That brings us to our problem ... some members of the community in the areas provided by the CentOS Project are rude to users who are coming in for help. This happens much more often than it should.
These complaints are not coming from newbies ... I would expect that to happen. The complaints are coming from people who are very knowledgeable in the open source community and who are involved in other open source projects.
Taking that into account, I would like to ask the following from all the people who frequent the CentOS Project's community areas (Wiki, Mailing Lists, Fora, and especially the IRC Channels). I ask that each of you who answer questions there to try and look at it from the other person's point of view and try to be polite. Treat other people like you would like to be treated when interacting with them.
There is a time and a place for telling someone what you think of them and their question. Believe me ... I am speaking from much experience here :P … but there is also a time and a place for at least trying to be polite first.
Please try to think of the community areas of the CentOS Project as you would think of your front porch, front yard, or the park by your house where you take your children to play. Try to interact with the people as you would if they asked you a question face to face in those settings. Be courteous and use proper etiquette to make your points and if someone will not listen to reason then we (the CentOS Project) have moderators in all the community areas who can try to help in that situation.
Sometimes users can be very inconsiderate when asking for help, especially users who are new to open source. They can sometimes seem to project themselves as entitled to support from free community venues in a manner that would lead you to believe they think they are paying a million dollars for a support contract. In those situations, those users do need to understand that there are paid alternatives where they can treat the workers like hired help … but that in a community setting their actions are not considered appropriate. In those situations, please contact the applicable moderators that the CentOS Project has in place and we can help to resolve the issues. I have no problem reminding people that there are paid alternatives to CentOS if they want an service level agreement type of relationship with the vendor ... but lets let that be handled by the people that the Project has in place in our community areas.
Lets try to keep the vitriol to a minimum on both sides and work as a group to make the community areas of the CentOS Project as quality a place to be as the software we all love and use.
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
The CentOS Project seems to be having a problem within some of our community interactive areas that we need to address.
Dear Johnny,
Your past history clearly shows this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
You have unceremoniously told numerous users to take a flying leap if they didn't like it your way.
Please reveal to the "Centos Community" who penned this piece for you to post.
Yours Truly,
Ant.
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Antaryami Khuda antaryamikhuda@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Johnny,
Your past history clearly shows this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
But, a very welcome change... CentOS is a project clearly capable of competing with the best commercial products and it is not at all surprising for users to have the expectation of equivalent support which, in a public forum can come from anyone who has recently solved a similar problem.
On 04/18/2012 02:25 PM, Antaryami Khuda wrote:
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
The CentOS Project seems to be having a problem within some of our community interactive areas that we need to address.
Dear Johnny,
Your past history clearly shows this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
You have unceremoniously told numerous users to take a flying leap if they didn't like it your way.
Well, all I can say is that I don't feel that this is the case. If you look at my discussions that I think you are talking about, they are not about users getting help with CentOS .. which is the purpose of the e-mail you quoted and the interactive media areas we provide.
All my "heated" discussions (at least the ones I remember) are about when people want to tell me how they think I should produce CentOS or they want me to tell them exactly how they can reproduce CentOS. Or they want me to let them build CentOS packages for the project, etc.
CentOS is open source and as such we are required to provide the source code (SRPMS) ... we do that.
The e-mail you quoted is concerned not with providing people with the knowledge of how to reproduce CentOS, but how we help people who want to use CentOS. So, this is a different subject entirely.
We produce a free product that people can choose to use or not to use ... that is up to them. All the interactive areas we provide are for discussing how to use CentOS. We do not have any interactive areas that are provided to discuss how one can build a competitor OS to CentOS. Someone else may have an area to discuss that.
Please reveal to the "Centos Community" who penned this piece for you to post.
I wrote it myself and I mean it. We should be nice to users who are trying to learn how to use CentOS. I know I am always nice to people who want to learn how to use CentOS. I am not necessarily nice to people who want to get me to tell them how to create a competitor to CentOS ... but I digress.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
I am not necessarily nice to people who want to get me to tell them how to create a competitor to CentOS ... but I digress.
As I recall you weren't necessarily nice to anyone who suggested the process of building CentOS wasn't perfect. But now that it is, I guess that doesn't matter.
On 04/18/12 4:08 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
As I recall you weren't necessarily nice to anyone who suggested the process of building CentOS wasn't perfect. But now that it is, I guess that doesn't matter.
isn't that special. how passive aggressive of you.
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:06 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote:
On 04/18/12 4:08 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
As I recall you weren't necessarily nice to anyone who suggested the process of building CentOS wasn't perfect. But now that it is, I guess that doesn't matter.
isn't that special. how passive aggressive of you.
I was mostly serious... While there is never an excuse for being rude on a public forum, and a warm/fuzzy community feeling is always a good thing, the community doesn't have much to do with the reasons to use or not use CentOS. Unless your system is completely disconnected from untrusted networks/users, what matters is whether you expect it to still work a few days after the next security flaw in the upstream code is publicized, protected by a simple 'yum update'. And I do expect that - now.
I'm always willing to answer even dumb/repeated questions politely if it happens to be something I know, but the people asking a lot of those questions would really be better off running SMEserver or ClearOS if those distributions weren't hopelessly out of date. If the CentOS team really wants to help beginners, one way would be to encourage respins that 'just work' in common configuration scenarios with simple management interfaces on top of the reliable code base.
Dear Johnny,
Your past history clearly shows this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
You have unceremoniously told numerous users to take a flying leap if they didn't like it your way.
Please reveal to the "Centos Community" who penned this piece for you to post.
Yours Truly,
Ant.
We should look forward not the other way around. An wrong deed does not justifies another wrong one.
These things only reveal philosophical difference between us.
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
The CentOS Project seems to be having a problem within some of our community interactive areas that we need to address.
As most of you know, the project provides CentOS software free of charge and we also provide community areas like a Wiki, Mailing Lists, IRC Channels and Fora for our users to interact with one another and allow the CentOS community to provide support for each other.
There are some companies out there that provide paid CentOS support, but for the most part our users utilize community areas to get support for CentOS.
That brings us to our problem ... some members of the community in the areas provided by the CentOS Project are rude to users who are coming in for help. This happens much more often than it should.
These complaints are not coming from newbies ... I would expect that to happen. The complaints are coming from people who are very knowledgeable in the open source community and who are involved in other open source projects.
Taking that into account, I would like to ask the following from all the people who frequent the CentOS Project's community areas (Wiki, Mailing Lists, Fora, and especially the IRC Channels). I ask that each of you who answer questions there to try and look at it from the other person's point of view and try to be polite. Treat other people like you would like to be treated when interacting with them.
There is a time and a place for telling someone what you think of them and their question. Believe me ... I am speaking from much experience here :P … but there is also a time and a place for at least trying to be polite first.
Please try to think of the community areas of the CentOS Project as you would think of your front porch, front yard, or the park by your house where you take your children to play. Try to interact with the people as you would if they asked you a question face to face in those settings. Be courteous and use proper etiquette to make your points and if someone will not listen to reason then we (the CentOS Project) have moderators in all the community areas who can try to help in that situation.
Sometimes users can be very inconsiderate when asking for help, especially users who are new to open source. They can sometimes seem to project themselves as entitled to support from free community venues in a manner that would lead you to believe they think they are paying a million dollars for a support contract. In those situations, those users do need to understand that there are paid alternatives where they can treat the workers like hired help … but that in a community setting their actions are not considered appropriate. In those situations, please contact the applicable moderators that the CentOS Project has in place and we can help to resolve the issues. I have no problem reminding people that there are paid alternatives to CentOS if they want an service level agreement type of relationship with the vendor ... but lets let that be handled by the people that the Project has in place in our community areas.
Lets try to keep the vitriol to a minimum on both sides and work as a group to make the community areas of the CentOS Project as quality a place to be as the software we all love and use.
I think this classic from 1996 (author unknown) needs to be resurrected.
Welcome to the Internet.
No one here likes you.
We're going to offend, insult, abuse, and belittle the living hell out of you. And when you rail against us with "FUCK YOU YOU GEEK WIMP SKATER GOTH LOSER PUNK FAG BITCH!1!!", we smile to ourselves. We laugh at you because you don't get it. Then we turn up the heat, hoping to draw more entertainment from your irrational fuming.
We will judge you, and we will find you unworthy. It is a trial by fire, and we won't even think about turning down the flames until you finally understand.
Some of you are smart enough to realize that, when you go online, it's like entering a foreign country ... and you know better than to ignorantly fuck with the locals. You take the time to listen and think before speaking. You learn, and by learning are gladly welcomed.
For some of you, it takes a while, then one day it all dawns on you - you get it, and are welcomed into the fold.
Some of you give up, and we breathe a sigh of relief - we didn't want you here anyway. And some of you just never get it. The offensively clueless have a special place in our hearts - as objects of ridicule. We don't like you, but we do love you.
You will get mad. You will tell us to go to hell, and call us "nerds" and "geeks". Don't bother ... we already know exactly what we are. And, much like the way hardcore rap has co-opted the word "nigger", turning an insult around on itself to become a semiserious badge of honor, so have we done.
"How dare you! I used to beat the crap out of punks like you in high school/college!" You may have owned the playing field because you were an athlete. You may have owned the student council because you were more popular. You may have owned the hallways and sidewalks because you were big and intimidating. Well, welcome to our world.
Things like athleticism, popularity, and physical prowess mean nothing here. We place no value on them ... or what car you drive, the size of your bank account, what you do for a living or where you went to school.
Allow us to introduce you to the concept of a "meritocracy" - the closest thing to a form of self-government we have. In The United Meritocratic nation-states of the Internet, those who can do, rule. Those who wish to rule, learn. Everyone else watches from the stands.
You may posses everything in the off-line world. We don't care. You come to the Internet penniless, lacking the only thing of real value here: knowledge.
"Who cares? The Internet isn't real anyway!" This attitude is universally unacceptable. The Internet is real. Real people live behind those handles and screen names. Real machines allow it to exist. It's real enough to change government policy, real enough to feed the world's hungry, and even, for some of us, real enough to earn us a paycheck. Using your own definition, how "real" is your job? Your stock portfolio? Your political party? What is the meaning of "real", anyway?
Do I sound arrogant? Sure ... to you. Because you probably don't get it yet.
If you insist on staying, then, at the very least, follow this advice:
1) No one, ESPECIALLY YOU, will make any law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
2) Use your brain before ever putting fingers to keys.
3) Do you want a picture of you getting anally raped by Bill Clinton while you're performing oral sex on a cow saved to hundreds of thousands of people's hard drives? No? Then don't put your fucking picture on the Internet. We can, will, and probably already HAVE altered it in awful ways. Expect it to show up on an equally offensive website.
4) Realize that you are never, EVER going to get that, or any other, offensive web page taken down. Those of us who run those sites LIVE to piss off people like you. Those of us who don't run those sites sometimes visit them just to read the hatemail from fools like you.
5) Oh, you say you're going to a lawyer? Be prepared for us to giggle with girlish delight, and for your lawyer to laugh in your face after he explains current copyright and parody law.
6) The Web is not the Internet. Stop referring to it that way.
7) We have already received the e-mail you are about to forward to us. Shut up.
8) Don't reply to spam. You are not going to be "unsubscribed".
9) Don't ever use the term "cyberspace" (only William Gibson gets to say that, and even he hasn't really used it for two or three books now). Likewise, you prove yourself a marketing-hype victim if you ever use the term "surfing".
10) With one or two notable exceptions, chat rooms will not get you laid.
11) It's a hoax, not a virus warning.
12) The internet is made up of thousands of computers, all connected but owned by different people. Learn how to use *your* computer before attempting to connect it to someone else's.
13) The first person who offers to help you is really just trying to fuck with you for entertainment. So is the second. And the third. And me.
14) Never insult someone who's been active in any group longer than you have. You may as well paint a damn target on your back.
15) Never get comfortable and arrogant behind your supposed mask of anonymity. Don't be surprised when your name, address, and home phone number get thrown back in your smug face. Hell, some of us will snail-mail you a printed satellite photograph of your house to drive the point home. Realize that you are powerless if this happens ... it's all public information, and information is our stock and trade.
16) No one thinks you are as cool as you think you are.
17) You aren't going to win any argument that you start.
18) If you're on AOL, don't worry about anything I've said here. You're already a fucking laughing stock, and there's no hope for you.
19) If you can't take a joke, immediately sell your computer to someone who can. RIGHT NOW.
Pissed off? It's the TRUTH, not these words, that hurts your feelings. Don't ever even pretend like I've gone & hurt them.
We don't like you. We don't want you here. We never will. Save us all the trouble and go away.
Hi Larry,
On 04/19/2012 01:28 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
The CentOS Project seems to be having a problem within some of our community interactive areas that we need to address.
...
I think this classic from 1996 (author unknown) needs to be resurrected.
I dont quite get the point of that post, or maybe I do and prefer not to. So to be clear, is that rant your way of justifying offensive and elitist behaviour on the various communication avenues in the project ?
- KB
On 4/19/2012 5:40 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi Larry,
On 04/19/2012 01:28 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
The CentOS Project seems to be having a problem within some of our community interactive areas that we need to address.
...
I think this classic from 1996 (author unknown) needs to be resurrected.
I dont quite get the point of that post, or maybe I do and prefer not to. So to be clear, is that rant your way of justifying offensive and elitist behaviour on the various communication avenues in the project ?
- KB
well, I for one never thought this thread would be full of drama. I think we all should thank you for your work KB. Without it I would have to use ubuntu (ugh) and hate life.
I think his post about the internet was a tongue in cheek quote about how rough and realistic responses can be on the net.
We should all find ways to be tolerant. We should all realize that others have bad days and just say things, due to this being a mailing list, that cannot be taken back. We should all realize the way we wrote something can come across with a different feeling or meaning that can be misconstrued as anger, resentment or abuse....but not intended to be.
but dang it, this list is too quite..!!
On 04/19/2012 11:05 AM, Bob Hoffman wrote:
I think his post about the internet was a tongue in cheek quote about how rough and realistic responses can be on the net.
Thats what I thought, but wanted to remove ambiguity.
We have some super cool people in and around the project, I just feel we lose out not having them more involved. And being a better more positive community is definitely more fun being a part of.
Look at it from this side : there are two kinds of people who come along looking for help ( perhaps asking the wrong questions, or fixing the wrong problem ). (1) People who have a choice and (2) People who dont have a choice.
for (1), we can chose, as a group to set fairly high bars, create barriers of entry that require people to 'get the plot', or 'rtfm like its for their life' or 'burn the rubber etc' And they then have the choice to make : either see the value of doing this and jump over the fence from an 'others' to 'one of ours' side of the garden. Or they can move along and rebase over to something else. These people are also people who dont lose, since they have the option and the opportunity to find something else that better ticks their problem box.
On the other hand the people in group (2) are the ones who get hurt when we set barriers really high and create an inhospitable environment; they are the guys and girls who either inherited a CentOS install, or are doing something not-by-their-own-personal choice. Be it for work, for development, for a fun project - whatever. When we set high barriers and create a hostile firewall for them to jump through to cross over: they are the ones getting isolated, making bad choices, getting into situations wherein their CentOS experience is not only sub-optimal but also harmful in cases.
Both of these user groups are important in their own way. A lot of the widespread traction CentOS has in the verticals ( hosting, cloud, voip, hpc, appliances, smb etc ) is down to the people from (1) who came + stayed and built resources and tooling around and in the CentOS ecosystem. the (2)'s have been the traction base.
</just my 2 bits>
Am 19.04.2012 23:42, schrieb Giles Coochey:
On 19/04/2012 01:28, Larry Martell wrote:
- If you're on AOL, don't worry about anything I've said here.
You're already a fucking laughing stock, and there's no hope for you.
Oh, that fateful day when AOL joined usenet, and usenet died.
IIRC that wasn't the same day.
On 20/04/2012 12:35, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 19.04.2012 23:42, schrieb Giles Coochey:
On 19/04/2012 01:28, Larry Martell wrote:
- If you're on AOL, don't worry about anything I've said here.
You're already a fucking laughing stock, and there's no hope for you.
Oh, that fateful day when AOL joined usenet, and usenet died.
IIRC that wasn't the same day.
Was still a case of cause and effect.
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Giles Coochey giles@coochey.net wrote:
On 20/04/2012 12:35, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 19.04.2012 23:42, schrieb Giles Coochey:
On 19/04/2012 01:28, Larry Martell wrote:
- If you're on AOL, don't worry about anything I've said here.
You're already a fucking laughing stock, and there's no hope for you.
Oh, that fateful day when AOL joined usenet, and usenet died.
IIRC that wasn't the same day.
Was still a case of cause and effect.
AOL just added lots of ordinary users. Usenet's history revolves much more around moderated vs. unmoderated issues and the content of alt.binaries.*.
On 04/20/2012 04:01 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
- If you're on AOL, don't worry about anything I've said here.
You're already a fucking laughing stock, and there's no hope for you.
Oh, that fateful day when AOL joined usenet, and usenet died.
IIRC that wasn't the same day.
Was still a case of cause and effect.
AOL just added lots of ordinary users. Usenet's history revolves much more around moderated vs. unmoderated issues and the content of alt.binaries.*.
With MegaUpload death, Usenet could rebirth... But guys, there should really be a "trash" ML.
Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 19.04.2012 23:42, schrieb Giles Coochey:
On 19/04/2012 01:28, Larry Martell wrote:
- If you're on AOL, don't worry about anything I've said here.
You're already a fucking laughing stock, and there's no hope for you.
Oh, that fateful day when AOL joined usenet, and usenet died.
IIRC that wasn't the same day.
Usenet did not die that way. In fact, it was later that year? the next year? that I was one of the 13 proponents who created a new Big 8 newsgroup.... On the other hand, AOL was a *royal* pain, given that they autosubscribed people to selected newsgroups... and alt.best.of.internet was one, and they had no clue, "we can post whatever we want wherever we want"....
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor & Siegal, and the aftermath to them"
Am 20.04.2012 16:02, schrieb m.roth@5-cent.us:
Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 19.04.2012 23:42, schrieb Giles Coochey:
Oh, that fateful day when AOL joined usenet, and usenet died.
IIRC that wasn't the same day.
Usenet did not die that way. [...]
That's what I was trying to say.
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor & Siegal, and the aftermath to them"
Don't get me started. Ah, the good old pre-spam days!
On 4/20/2012 11:12 AM, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 20.04.2012 16:02, schrieb m.roth@5-cent.us:
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor& Siegal, and the aftermath to them"Don't get me started. Ah, the good old pre-spam days!
I was not working for a computer company, but I finally got online in 93 through various things like prodigy, aol, compuserv, etc. I do remember a fateful day when I was in aol, back when it was $4 an hour and there was a chat room called 'spam' I thought it was rather odd that a group of people would be discussing an old monty python skit and jumped in. After a few minutes it was obvious they were not talking about monty python.
even then, they were there figuring out how to spam spam spam.
not all of us were lucky enough to be working main frames in the 80s for the usenet dang it.
Bob Hoffman wrote:
On 4/20/2012 11:12 AM, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 20.04.2012 16:02, schrieb m.roth@5-cent.us:
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor& Siegal, and theaftermath to them"
Don't get me started. Ah, the good old pre-spam days!
I was not working for a computer company, but I finally got online in 93 through various things like prodigy, aol, compuserv, etc. I do remember a fateful day when I was in aol, back when it was $4 an hour and there was a chat room called 'spam' I thought it was rather odd that a group of people would be discussing an old monty python skit and jumped in. After a few minutes it was obvious they were not talking about monty python.
even then, they were there figuring out how to spam spam spam.
not all of us were lucky enough to be working main frames in the 80s for the usenet dang it.
M'frame here. PC's in the mid-eighties, then back to m'frames, pc, *finally* got to Unix in '91, which was when I got on the 'Net, late that year. My late wife was on a couple years before, and a friend who was at UP in the mid-eighties talked about it.
Usenet is, of course, still alive, though a lot of folks know it as google groups....
mark
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
From: "m.roth@5-cent.us" m.roth@5-cent.us
To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Cc: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [CentOS] A request from the CentOS Project
Bob Hoffman wrote:
On 4/20/2012 11:12 AM, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
Am 20.04.2012 16:02, schrieb m.roth@5-cent.us:
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor& Siegal,
and the
aftermath to them"
Don't get me started. Ah, the good old pre-spam days!
I was not working for a computer company, but I finally got online in 93 through various things like prodigy, aol, compuserv, etc. I do remember a fateful day when I was in aol, back when it was $4 an hour and there was a chat room called 'spam' I thought it was rather odd that a group of people would be discussing an old monty python skit and jumped in. After a few minutes it was obvious they were not talking about monty python.
even then, they were there figuring out how to spam spam spam.
not all of us were lucky enough to be working main frames in the 80s for the usenet dang it.
M'frame here. PC's in the mid-eighties, then back to m'frames, pc, *finally* got to Unix in '91, which was when I got on the 'Net, late that year. My late wife was on a couple years before, and a friend who was at UP in the mid-eighties talked about it.
Usenet is, of course, still alive, though a lot of folks know it as google groups....
My first usenet browser was "rn." I first started posting in the early 90's from a University account. I also had access to BITNET mailing lists, and the name "LISTSERV" might have come from there. Since BITNET access was limited the discussions there were mostly tamer. === Al
On Friday, April 20, 2012 02:07:39 PM Al Sparks wrote:
From: "m.roth@5-cent.us" m.roth@5-cent.us Usenet is, of course, still alive, though a lot of folks know it as google groups....
My first usenet browser was "rn."
Anybody know if 'trn' and C-News are in any CentOS 6 repos? I want to re-live running a 9.6kbps UUCP dialup leaf node like it was when I had an AT&T UnixPC..... NOT!
No, I didn't find either trn or C-News in the normal repos, but I didn't look in too many third-party ones, either.... a good UUCP is still available, though, in EPEL.
This is way way off topic; time to wind down, IMO, even if it is Friday afternoon.
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 04:28:48PM -0400, Lamar Owen wrote:
No, I didn't find either trn or C-News in the normal repos, but I didn't look in too many third-party ones, either.... a good UUCP is still available, though, in EPEL.
Taylor UUCP is part of the base repo in RH5; has it been dropped in RH6? Huh. I'd expect a pretty clean build from the RH5 srpm
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Tilman Schmidt t.schmidt@phoenixsoftware.de wrote:
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor & Siegal, and the aftermath to them"
Don't get me started. Ah, the good old pre-spam days!
You mean when the internet consisted of defense contractors and the universities in that business? I prefer 'open to the public', even with the baggage it brings.
On 04/20/2012 05:19 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
You mean when the internet consisted of defense contractors and the universities in that business? I prefer 'open to the public', even with the baggage it brings.
lets not get carried away, and try to atleast keep conversations CentOS centric. I am sure there are other venues for social and general chit chat.
On 04/20/2012 05:19 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
You mean when the internet consisted of defense contractors and the universities in that business? I prefer 'open to the public', even with the baggage it brings.
Nope, I mean the early nineties, when the Internet was still young and largely spam free, but definitely not limited to U.S. defense anymore, the web was just one of those novel ideas, and my boss asked me why on earth we should request a public IP address block when UUCP worked just as well for E-mail. (He didn't know about Usenet, thankfully, otherwise he'd probably have prohibited it.)
Am 20.04.2012 18:34, schrieb Karanbir Singh:
lets not get carried away, and try to atleast keep conversations CentOS centric. I am sure there are other venues for social and general chit chat.
Aw, c'mon, it's weekend, don't be a killjoy.
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Tilman Schmidt t.schmidt@phoenixsoftware.de wrote:
On 04/20/2012 05:19 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
You mean when the internet consisted of defense contractors and the universities in that business? I prefer 'open to the public', even with the baggage it brings.
Nope, I mean the early nineties, when the Internet was still young and largely spam free, but definitely not limited to U.S. defense anymore, the web was just one of those novel ideas, and my boss asked me why on earth we should request a public IP address block when UUCP worked just as well for E-mail. (He didn't know about Usenet, thankfully, otherwise he'd probably have prohibited it.)
Yeah, I remember those days too. I was the original technical contact for fb.com when you could still get 2 letter domain names practically for the asking. I understand that name was sold to facebook a while back for a very large sum of money. Times change...
Les Mikesell wrote:
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Tilman Schmidt t.schmidt@phoenixsoftware.de wrote:
mark "why, yes, I *do* remember Kantor & Siegal, and the aftermath to them"
Don't get me started. Ah, the good old pre-spam days!
You mean when the internet consisted of defense contractors and the universities in that business? I prefer 'open to the public', even with the baggage it brings.
Beg pardon, but it was *most*, if not all universities, and by the late eighties, research institutions - the company that I and my late wife worked for did environmental remediation and testing - non-military.
mark
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Larry Martell larry.martell@gmail.com wrote:
I think this classic from 1996 (author unknown) needs to be resurrected.
Welcome to the Internet.
No one here likes you.
This is not 1996. Internet is more than a thousands times more accessible to people. Back then people who built their own kernels were the majority. Now little kids also uses linux.
So thats not valid at these times at all.
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