This is something that has been long overdue for me to set up, and how I am looking it hard in the face.
Back in '94, I was doing REAL X-Terminals into UNIX systems. Watching simple mouse meanderings eat up all available bandwidth, and forget it if you resized a window and had to download the new font.....
So here we are, in the modern times with GNOME (I chose that over KDE, because), and Open Office, Thunderbird, and lots of other nice graphical apps.
I want to run the apps on an app server and access them for a thin client. I am familiar with the K12TLSP project, but right now I want to see what I can do myself.
What is the minimum X install for the server to run Open Office with the only graphical usage the remote client?
I well learned back in '91 when I started with TCP/IP, the TCP Client/Server model and how X-Windows and SNMP ran 'backwards'. That is your device was the Server and the device with the data/app was the client. So in theory, all I would need to have on the Centos Apps server is the X and Gnome client parts and some remote server (like XRDP)?
I have the test box sitting here, ready to run an install....
I think it would be so cool, to see my Gnome desktop from the apps server running on my little old Libretto running DSL.
So here we are, in the modern times with GNOME (I chose that over KDE, because), and Open Office, Thunderbird, and lots of other nice graphical apps.
I want to run the apps on an app server and access them for a thin client. I am familiar with the K12TLSP project, but right now I want to see what I can do myself.
What is the minimum X install for the server to run Open Office with the only graphical usage the remote client?
I don't know about a minimum X install, but I've been very happy with freenx on centos 5, connecting as easily from mac, PC, or linux. in my lab (human brain imaging), we do remote graphics display all the time, openoffice definitely works. I wanted to be able to work from home and X was just crawling along, unusable. with freenx, its almost like sitting at the console. I have my gnome desktop (KDE is also fine) and all the visual goodness that comes with it. my favorite story is an undergrad working in my lab was able to connect over wireless from Argentina to my server in CT USA, pull up images, and do some real work--the point being that its fast and secure.
moreover, there is a very helpful FAQ, http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/FreeNX
best,
--Jeremy
Jeremy Gray wrote on Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:31:15 -0400:
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
Kai
Kai Schaetzl spake the following on 8/21/2007 11:31 AM:
Jeremy Gray wrote on Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:31:15 -0400:
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
Kai
I haven't used it yet, but I hear it performs better because of the compression.
Scott Silva wrote on Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:42:34 -0700:
compression
VNC has had compression since long. But it's weak on encryption, you either have to use a VPN or SSH tunnel or a server and client that fit together. I found that you don't need a VNC server on CentOS 5 to make use of VNC. There's a server built in the Gnome desktop (called vito or so, don't remember exactly), so making use of VNC is much faster and easier than going with NX. It seems to support compression as well. But it's not secured.
Kai
On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 20:31 +0200, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
Jeremy Gray wrote on Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:31:15 -0400:
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
---- FreeNX - it's awesome
On 8/21/07, Craig White craig@tobyhouse.com wrote:
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
FreeNX - it's awesome
I finally took the time to install and configure FreeNX. All that I can say is -- wow! -- remote X is quick now!
Thanks, Scott
Scott Moseman wrote on Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:08:59 -0500:
I finally took the time to install and configure FreeNX.
I tried as well, but it fails for me. There's no service for it and no process with nx in the name running after I install nx and freenx. How am I supposed to know that the server is installed and working?
Kai
Kai Schaetzl wrote:
Scott Moseman wrote on Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:08:59 -0500:
I finally took the time to install and configure FreeNX.
I tried as well, but it fails for me. There's no service for it and no process with nx in the name running after I install nx and freenx. How am I supposed to know that the server is installed and working?
What is supposed to happen is that the client makes a passwordless ssh connection as user nx with the key from /etc/nxserver/client.id_dsa.key which you have to copy out and configure manually in the client. That connection is used to start the processes you need and pass the real login and password over the already-encrypted connection.
On Thu, 2007-08-23 at 13:03 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
Kai Schaetzl wrote:
Scott Moseman wrote on Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:08:59 -0500:
I finally took the time to install and configure FreeNX.
I tried as well, but it fails for me. There's no service for it and no process with nx in the name running after I install nx and freenx. How am I supposed to know that the server is installed and working?
What is supposed to happen is that the client makes a passwordless ssh connection as user nx with the key from /etc/nxserver/client.id_dsa.key which you have to copy out and configure manually in the client. That connection is used to start the processes you need and pass the real login and password over the already-encrypted connection.
Was the following page not useful enough ? : http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/FreeNX
Fabian Arrotin wrote on Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:26:42 +0200:
Was the following page not useful enough ? :
Obviously not ;-) Can anyone confirm that the NX client for Windows version 3.0 should work? The page says it's not known if 3.0 works and gives a link to an older version. But that is Linux, I want to connect from a Windows system. My connections simply get "refused", as the client says. Now that I know that there is no service I'll see if I can connect to the nx user with SSH. Thanks for all the replies.
Kai
Kai Schaetzl wrote on Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:31:21 +0200:
Now that I know that there is no service I'll see if I can connect to the nx user with SSH.
No problem to login with dsa key borrowed from nx user. I get the NXSERVER prompt. Seems to be okay. Either the passthru authentication for the system user I want to use doesn't work or the client doesn't work with this server version.
I followed the wiki so far: yum install nx freenx
created node.conf
I skipped this part: PasswordAuthentication no AllowUsers nx as it is not necessary for now, PasswordAuthentication is allowed and all users are allowed.
service sshd restart was done by yum
ENABLE_PASSDB_AUTHENTICATION="1" not necessary but enabled by default, anyway.
Add this newly created user to the nxserver db : did that for an existing user that I want to use for connection
Then pasted the private NXSERVER key in the NX client on Windows.
Enable SSL Encryption of All Traffic Didn't do that as I want to connect via port 22 only for now.
I can connect from the Windows machine with SSH to the target user using password authentication and I can connect to the user nx with dsa authentication. No go with NX. Here's what the details say: NX> 203 NXSSH running with pid: 3136 NX> 285 Enabling check on switch command NX> 285 Enabling skip of SSH config files NX> 285 Setting the preferred NX options ssh: connect to host xxxxxx port 22: Connection refused
Looks like it is the client? Agreed?
Kai
ssh: connect to host xxxxxx port 22: Connection refused
Looks like it is the client? Agreed?
hmmm, I'd say probably not. what about tcp wrappers maybe?
just to check the client, I deleted my 2.whatever windows client, downloaded the latest windows client 3.0.0-73, and installed. it imported my previous settings, including dsa key, fired up, and authenticated. there may still be issues, but it definitely gets further than connection refused. its possible that somehow my prior settings were the crucial bit, but that would be rather weird.
what does tail /var/log/secure say after your connection is refused?
--Jeremy
ail.com> X-Rcpt-To: centos@centos.org
Jeremy Gray wrote on Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:16:00 -0400:
hmmm, I'd say probably not. what about tcp wrappers maybe?
I don't see how these could intervene here. This box is setup fresh and I didn't set any firewall or other access restrictions yet. This is here in my local LAN and I can connect with SSH just fine. As I'm using the same port with NX that should be open for it as well. I tried with SSL now, same result.
just to check the client,
Thank you very much for trying, so it's probably not the client. Not sure, if I should consider this good or bad ;-)
what does tail /var/log/secure say after your connection is refused?
Nothing. It smells like a had a firewall on that machine, but I don't. I think it's time for Ethereal. Haven't used it since it got renamed. I installed the latest Wireshark incarnation yesterday. I'll see later today if I can find something out this way.
Thanks for your efforts so far!
Kai
I almost gave up myself when trying to set it up. its really worth it once you get it working. for me it would authenticate but not connect. I forget if the error message was the same as you are getting, sounds vaguely similiar. turned out that I needed to add a line to /etc/hosts.allow sshd: 127.0.0.1: ALLOW this was on a new install of centos 5.
mail.com> X-Rcpt-To: centos@centos.org
Jeremy Gray wrote on Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:35:54 -0400:
I almost gave up myself
Hi Jeremy, thanks for your continued help. Wireshark got me going. That was really really stupid. I had changed the hostname of the machine and mistakenly had typed in the old hostname in the NX client and never realized by watching at it that it was the wrong one. It works now just fine. Cannot see any visible advantage over VNC, though, at least not at LAN speeds. There's one thing that I apparently cannot do with NX and that is attach to an existing non-NX session, right? This would be the main purpose here, attach to the console session from another machine. So, I will have to use VNC for that, anyway.
Kai
It works now just fine. Cannot see any visible advantage over VNC, though, at least not at LAN speeds.
glad things are working for you. yes, you'd only notice better speed when working remotely
There's one thing that I apparently cannot do with NX and that is attach
to an existing non-NX session, right? This would be the main purpose here, attach to the console session from another machine.
So, I will have to use VNC for that, anyway.
not sure, I never tried it. the nomachine.com FAQ / doc pages ought to reveal pretty quickly what is possible.
I joined this thread a little late, but I have a related question: how do I log in on a remote machine (assuming that some form of remote desktop is set up to receive that login on the remote machine) that is on the other side of a router (i.e., has no internet-visible IP address)?
Thanks.
mhr
890952076@mail.gmail.com> X-Rcpt-To: centos@centos.org
Mark Hull-Richter wrote on Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:37:44 -0700:
I joined this thread a little late, but I have a related question: how do I log in on a remote machine (assuming that some form of remote desktop is set up to receive that login on the remote machine) that is on the other side of a router (i.e., has no internet-visible IP address)?
There is no difference here from reaching the machine for other purposes. I guess you have to have IP forwarding enabled on the other side. You connect to port 22 on the NAT router and the router forwards this to port 22 of the remote desktop machine. Or the other side makes the connection first (assuming *your* IP is routable), that is how "invites" on Windows RD work. Then you don't need IP forwarding.
Kai
The server is finally up and running (kind of).
Now do I have to have X running on the server, or only installed.
That is can I run the server at init 3?
Scott Moseman wrote:
On 8/21/07, Craig White craig@tobyhouse.com wrote:
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
FreeNX - it's awesome
I finally took the time to install and configure FreeNX. All that I can say is -- wow! -- remote X is quick now!
Thanks, Scott _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Kai,
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use
SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
I'd say nx wins on security, speed, and admin hassle-factor, at least based on my limited experience and for my needs (small research lab in a university). for mac users (including me), there was not an obvious vnc client that had ssh built in. I figured out how to do vnc over a ssh tunnel from a mac. it was secure enough but a bit clunky, and harder for me to enforce that users connect securely. so having ssh / ssl integrated in nx was a win. there are some windows vnc clients with ssh (these may or may not be free, I forget). beyond security, I found NX to be slightly faster than tight-vnc (and much much faster than regular vnc). also, because I have users connecting from mac, PC, and linux, I found NX easier to admin as a solution because the nxclients are all very similar. vnc clients seemed to vary a lot across platforms whereas for nx its basically all the same.
--Jeremy
Jeremy Gray wrote on Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:59:57 -0400:
vnc clients seemed to vary a lot across platforms
Definitely, for Windows there are even several of them and they deliver different experience even on the same server. At the moment I find that UltraVNC provides the best experience (after using TightVNC for a the last years). Do you know if you still have to install the NX client on the CentOS server machine as is advised on the wiki? And which port does it use when not connecting via SSL? Only port 22?
Kai
On 21/08/07, Kai Schaetzl maillists@conactive.com wrote:
I looked on that page and I see that it integrates with SSH and can use SSL natively. Does NX have any advantages beyond that over VNC?
NX is event-based; VNC is session-based in real-time.
Alvin Chang wrote on Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:27:04 +0100:
NX is event-based; VNC is session-based in real-time.
Can you explain that a bit? AFAIK VNC updates the screen when it finds that portions of it have been updated, you can specify those portions a bit (only detect changes in foreground window etc.). Does NX behave different? Based on which events?
Kai
Jeremy Gray wrote:
So here we are, in the modern times with GNOME (I chose that over KDE, because), and Open Office, Thunderbird, and lots of other nice graphical apps. I want to run the apps on an app server and access them for a thin client. I am familiar with the K12TLSP project, but right now I want to see what I can do myself. What is the minimum X install for the server to run Open Office with the only graphical usage the remote client?I don't know about a minimum X install, but I've been very happy with freenx on centos 5, connecting as easily from mac, PC, or linux. in my lab (human brain imaging), we do remote graphics display all the time, openoffice definitely works. I wanted to be able to work from home and X was just crawling along, unusable. with freenx, its almost like sitting at the console. I have my gnome desktop (KDE is also fine) and all the visual goodness that comes with it. my favorite story is an undergrad working in my lab was able to connect over wireless from Argentina to my server in CT USA, pull up images, and do some real work--the point being that its fast and secure.
moreover, there is a very helpful FAQ, http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/FreeNX
Do you run the server in init 5? Or can it run in init 3?
Trying to save memory on the server....
But wait, the client has even LESS memory :(
On 21/08/07, Robert Moskowitz rgm@htt-consult.com wrote:
Do you run the server in init 5? Or can it run in init 3?
Trying to save memory on the server....
But wait, the client has even LESS memory :(
The NX server is not a daemon. The NX client will ssh into the server as user nx with SSL password-less login, set up the environment (therefore you need X installed, but don't need it running), then present the X login screen.
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
I don't know about a minimum X install, but I've been very happy with freenx on centos 5, connecting as easily from mac, PC, or linux. in my lab (human brain imaging), we do remote graphics display all the time, openoffice definitely works. I wanted to be able to work from home and X was just crawling along, unusable. with freenx, its almost like sitting at the console. I have my gnome desktop (KDE is also fine) and all the visual goodness that comes with it. my favorite story is an undergrad working in my lab was able to connect over wireless from Argentina to my server in CT USA, pull up images, and do some real work--the point being that its fast and secure.
moreover, there is a very helpful FAQ, http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/FreeNX
Do you run the server in init 5? Or can it run in init 3?
Trying to save memory on the server....
But wait, the client has even LESS memory :(
Freenx/NX will use more memory at both ends than a plain remote X session because it gets most of its performance gain and the ability to suspend a running session by caching things at both ends. On a fast local LAN you might just use X, but for remote access it is worth buying more RAM if you need it.
It looks like FreeNX only runs on 32-bit, won't run on 64-bit kernel. Is that correct? If so, is VNC the next best alternative?
Les Mikesell wrote:
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
I don't know about a minimum X install, but I've been very happy with freenx on centos 5, connecting as easily from mac, PC, or linux. in my lab (human brain imaging), we do remote graphics display all the time, openoffice definitely works. I wanted to be able to work from home and X was just crawling along, unusable. with freenx, its almost like sitting at the console. I have my gnome desktop (KDE is also fine) and all the visual goodness that comes with it. my favorite story is an undergrad working in my lab was able to connect over wireless from Argentina to my server in CT USA, pull up images, and do some real work--the point being that its fast and secure.
moreover, there is a very helpful FAQ, http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/FreeNX
Do you run the server in init 5? Or can it run in init 3?
Trying to save memory on the server....
But wait, the client has even LESS memory :(
Freenx/NX will use more memory at both ends than a plain remote X session because it gets most of its performance gain and the ability to suspend a running session by caching things at both ends. On a fast local LAN you might just use X, but for remote access it is worth buying more RAM if you need it.
On 8/22/07, Liam Kirsher liamk@numenet.com wrote:
It looks like FreeNX only runs on 32-bit, won't run on 64-bit kernel. Is that correct? If so, is VNC the next best alternative?
# uname -srmpio Linux 2.6.9-55.0.2.EL x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
# nxserver --status NX> 100 NXSERVER - Version 1.5.0-60 OS (GPL) NX> 110 NX Server is running NX> 999 Bye
Well, that's concise. Thanks.
Scott Moseman wrote:
On 8/22/07, Liam Kirsher liamk@numenet.com wrote:
It looks like FreeNX only runs on 32-bit, won't run on 64-bit kernel. Is that correct? If so, is VNC the next best alternative?
# uname -srmpio Linux 2.6.9-55.0.2.EL x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
# nxserver --status NX> 100 NXSERVER - Version 1.5.0-60 OS (GPL) NX> 110 NX Server is running NX> 999 Bye _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 15:31 -0700, Liam Kirsher wrote:
Well, that's concise. Thanks.
Scott Moseman wrote:
On 8/22/07, Liam Kirsher liamk@numenet.com wrote:
It looks like FreeNX only runs on 32-bit, won't run on 64-bit kernel. Is that correct? If so, is VNC the next best alternative?
# uname -srmpio Linux 2.6.9-55.0.2.EL x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
# nxserver --status NX> 100 NXSERVER - Version 1.5.0-60 OS (GPL) NX> 110 NX Server is running NX> 999 Bye _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
FreeNX might be 32bit only, but 64bit Red Hat systems are multi-lib. Both 32bit and 64bit libraries should be installed on your system.
Okay, thanks for the tip! Do the freenx rpm distributions for 64-bit contain the 32-bit ones (seems like they should if they are required) or do I have to install the 32-bit rpms separately? I'm sure I can figure this one out, but if you happen to know, do tell!
Timothy Selivanow wrote:
On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 15:31 -0700, Liam Kirsher wrote:
Well, that's concise. Thanks.
Scott Moseman wrote:
On 8/22/07, Liam Kirsher liamk@numenet.com wrote:
It looks like FreeNX only runs on 32-bit, won't run on 64-bit kernel. Is that correct? If so, is VNC the next best alternative?
# uname -srmpio Linux 2.6.9-55.0.2.EL x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
# nxserver --status NX> 100 NXSERVER - Version 1.5.0-60 OS (GPL) NX> 110 NX Server is running NX> 999 Bye _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
FreeNX might be 32bit only, but 64bit Red Hat systems are multi-lib. Both 32bit and 64bit libraries should be installed on your system.
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
This is something that has been long overdue for me to set up, and how I am looking it hard in the face.
Back in '94, I was doing REAL X-Terminals into UNIX systems. Watching simple mouse meanderings eat up all available bandwidth, and forget it if you resized a window and had to download the new font.....
So here we are, in the modern times with GNOME (I chose that over KDE, because), and Open Office, Thunderbird, and lots of other nice graphical apps.
I want to run the apps on an app server and access them for a thin client. I am familiar with the K12TLSP project, but right now I want to see what I can do myself.
If you want to network-boot your client, k12ltsp is the easy way to go. It also sets up the right defaults for remote X logins even if you don't network boot.
What is the minimum X install for the server to run Open Office with the only graphical usage the remote client?
Gdm needs to be configured to accept remote logins. I think there is a way to disable X on the console while permitting it over the network but I've always had trouble with that and just let the login box come up unused on the console.
I well learned back in '91 when I started with TCP/IP, the TCP Client/Server model and how X-Windows and SNMP ran 'backwards'. That is your device was the Server and the device with the data/app was the client. So in theory, all I would need to have on the Centos Apps server is the X and Gnome client parts and some remote server (like XRDP)?
I have the test box sitting here, ready to run an install....
I think it would be so cool, to see my Gnome desktop from the apps server running on my little old Libretto running DSL.
If you don't start X automatically on the remote, you can start it with: X -query server_name to log into the server and run the desktop from there.
You might also like freenx and the NX client. It is cross-platform, has better remote performance over limited bandwidth, and allows you to suspend and re-connect to running sessions.
-
Alvin Chang -
Craig White -
Fabian Arrotin -
Jeremy Gray -
Kai Schaetzl -
Les Mikesell -
Liam Kirsher -
Mark Hull-Richter -
Robert Moskowitz -
Scott Moseman -
Scott Silva -
Timothy Selivanow